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Hybrid or Projectiles?

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Wolverine PL	Posted - 2005.09.26 13:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Wolverine PL on 26/09/2005 13:02:21 What to choose? Projectiles have better DMG, and what is strange for me dont need CAP to shoot. Im talking about 1400mm, they need like 2cap to shoot, compare this to rails 425mm which suck cap like crazy using AM ammo. I think is better to use projectiles even on megathron or Apoc then dedicated weapon type. You can then hit hard and still all cap goes to tanking. For me Projectiles are overpowered and should be nerfted.
dalman	Posted - 2005.09.26 13:07:00 - [2] Yep. Best way to fit a Thorax for example is all lows filled with officer RCUs and then 1 1400mm artillery. Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.09.26 13:25:00 - [3] Edited by: Muad ''dib on 26/09/2005 13:30:12 Projectiles do less dmg over time than hybrids (or lasers), the hits may be large but are far appart. The lack of cap is reflected in the minm ships having (generally) poor slot layout and bad capacitor. That said, projectilles are fine, if anything they could do with a rof decrease.
Wolverine PL	Posted - 2005.09.26 13:28:00 - [4] Sorry wont fit even with officers RCU.
DerGurkenschaelor	Posted - 2005.09.26 14:12:00 - [5] lol give me a break. Projectiles do less dmg over time, have the WORST tracking of all turrets, and are a pain to fit on notoriously low CPU/Grid Minmatar ships. The only thing they have going for themselves is very little cap usage, different dmg types(although dmg type is almost exclusively dictated by the range at which combat takes place, not the other way round!), and falloff. Why on earth would you want to nerf them?
Apoll	Posted - 2005.09.26 14:58:00 - [6] Wolverine projectiles & hybrids are very good weapons depending where to use each one. Now what to fit on the ships depend of what you benefit from them. Example. Megathron and all the Gallente ships (most) give nice bonuses on hybrids so usualy is better to benefit from it. But yes you can fit 1400mm on Mega and go for sniping or fit AC and go for close combat. Regarding the Amarr since half of their ship do not get any weapon bonus, (Maller, Apoc, Proph, Sacrilege etc), Projectiles are good option to use and give them better overal rating. Bright example is the Apoc with full rack of 1400mm. Descent tank, and do more damage than Tempest per volley (even with Tempest pilot having BS5). Tempest has better dps after BS3 by few %. So that means any time you want take off those megapulses or tachyons and fit 1400mm :) You will be the same nasty Overal Projectiles very reliable simple guns, with Artillery be nasty (a lot of damage), slow rof and with bad tracking (but you hit from 50km+ so you don't need tracking). While on the other side Autocannons have uber tracking, rof and your only problem is that you need to fill up your cargo bay with ammo and go close.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.26 15:10:00 - [7] IMO, projectiles are in need of the most loving of the 3 turret types -- This Zig. For great justice!
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.26 15:13:00 - [8] Originally by: HippoKing IMO, projectiles are in need of the most loving of the 3 turret types I agree, only which part of there stats needs to be looked at?
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.09.26 15:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Agnar Koladrov Originally by: HippoKing IMO, projectiles are in need of the most loving of the 3 turret types I agree, only which part of there stats needs to be looked at? I vote for rof, why should it take 10 seconds between shots, its a shell, who they got relaoding them, umpa lumpas? Its a simple gun type i can handle the low tracking and small ammo clip, but theres no reason it shouldnt fire quick enough to keep the DPS inline with other BS main weapons.
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.26 15:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Muad 'dib Originally by: Agnar Koladrov Originally by: HippoKing IMO, projectiles are in need of the most loving of the 3 turret types I agree, only which part of there stats needs to be looked at? I vote for rof, why should it take 10 seconds between shots, its a shell, who they got relaoding them, umpa lumpas? Its a simple gun type i can handle the low tracking and small ammo clip, but theres no reason it shouldnt fire quick enough to keep the DPS inline with other BS main weapons. I agree with this, higher RoF would be good. But I am really afraid CCP thinks totally otherwise.
Crellion	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:15:00 - [11] Edited by: Crellion on 26/09/2005 16:15:32 I agree with the above posters. Please give better rof to projectiles and also quadraple my 425s rails dmg mod so I can also do 3000 dmg wrecking shots. [You got to be kidding me right? ]
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:18:00 - [12] Projectiles are good enough. In fact, I think weapons are fairly balanced across the board now.
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 26/09/2005 16:15:32 I agree with the above posters. Please give better rof to projectiles and also quadraple my 425s rails dmg mod so I can also do 3000 dmg wrecking shots. [You got to be kidding me right? ] Yea, i did say "enough to keep the DPS inline with other BS main weapons", not give the projectilles a 1 sec rof. Although someone has to come last, its just a shame its by so much thats all. And yea the weapons are the most ballanced they ever been, but that doesnt mean its perfect, okay?
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Agnar Koladrov Originally by: Muad 'dib Originally by: Agnar Koladrov Originally by: HippoKing IMO, projectiles are in need of the most loving of the 3 turret types I agree, only which part of there stats needs to be looked at? I vote for rof, why should it take 10 seconds between shots, its a shell, who they got relaoding them, umpa lumpas? Its a simple gun type i can handle the low tracking and small ammo clip, but theres no reason it shouldnt fire quick enough to keep the DPS inline with other BS main weapons. I agree with this, higher RoF would be good. But I am really afraid CCP thinks totally otherwise. My opinion of the matter totally agrees with you guys. If you look at even today's technology the projectiles we use come on racks of ammo. They feed themselves and fire rapidly (today's jet fighters or even WW2 planes are a great example). I am not saying that the ROF should be that fast but would it kill them to drop it by 50% on large projectiles? Or at least in par with Hybrids? (I dunno the ROF on hybrids so that is why I said it). The other thing that bugs me is that when CCP 'helped' projectiles they up'd damage but did nothing to tracking. Yeah its nice to be able to insta gank a cruiser no and then but how often does that happen? I'm not asking to be able to insta gank the cruiser but the very next cruiser I shoot could take me a full six salvos to kill because I keep missing the thing when its moving right at me or even sitting still. This is retarded to me. Minmatar are speed based heavy hitters. Our guns should be high damaging with great tracking since we can't tank to save our lives from an NPC Inty. The other thing that bugs me is the horrible CPU and Grid Minmatar have on ships. Is it just me or is it hard to fit a rack of the top of the line guns on every minmatar ship and the corrolating set of guns that go with it? Does any other race have this issue? From what I've heard they don't, and they still have more then enough room to make a good tank out of it too.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:26:00 - [15] according to your rl example my siege launchers should be able to shoot 15 torps at the same time per fitted launcher... "We brake for nobody"
Crellion	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:39:00 - [16] Please dont post real life examples. They are not at all helpfull. As far as balance is concerned: ATM Hybrids are better DOT over a LONG fight. In fleet battles with only 2 volleys commign from a projectile and 3 from a hybrid or 1 and 1 the projectiles dmage varies from same to much better. To drop rof 50% would make the super uber. They d have same rof (almost) as hubrids (rails) with 4x the damage mod which is plain silly. Even with things as they are now assuming full gang (or close) setups large arties get down to 8 secs with large hybrids at 5,5 secs or something. This is allready in favour of the projectiles IMO due to the huge damage difference. Still I am not 100% on the ball on projectiles cause I dont use them so if a playr with maxed skills for both would like to step in and give us dmg mod and rof for 1400 IIs and 425 IIs with say ... 3-4 tech II dmg mods that would be better than my post and some of the criminally vague posts above. Please do so and so that we may have a clear picture.
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.09.26 16:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Crellion Please dont post real life examples. They are not at all helpfull. As far as balance is concerned: ATM Hybrids are better DOT over a LONG fight. In fleet battles with only 2 volleys commign from a projectile and 3 from a hybrid or 1 and 1 the projectiles dmage varies from same to much better. To drop rof 50% would make the super uber. They d have same rof (almost) as hubrids (rails) with 4x the damage mod which is plain silly. Even with things as they are now assuming full gang (or close) setups large arties get down to 8 secs with large hybrids at 5,5 secs or something. This is allready in favour of the projectiles IMO due to the huge damage difference. Still I am not 100% on the ball on projectiles cause I dont use them so if a playr with maxed skills for both would like to step in and give us dmg mod and rof for 1400 IIs and 425 IIs with say ... 3-4 tech II dmg mods that would be better than my post and some of the criminally vague posts above. Please do so and so that we may have a clear picture. 50% really sounds rediculous indeed. Lowering the RoF of artillery turrets by ~15% would be more realistic and not unbalancing. This 15% decrease in RoF would result in the following: 250mm ~ 7.25 280mm ~ 8.925 650mm ~ 10.837 720mm ~ 13.40 1200mm ~ 16.25 1400mm ~ 20.00

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