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Xeau
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Posted - 2005.09.26 18:02:00 -
[1]
Are there any others?
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Daolin
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Posted - 2005.09.26 18:56:00 -
[2]
Any others than EVE vegans? You mean, like, WoW vegans or SWG vegans? 
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TauTut
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Posted - 2005.09.26 19:03:00 -
[3]
I can do vegetarianism ... but being a vegan would be a real test. I think I'd waste away in about 2 weeks.
Fair play though.
-TT
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Valisk
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:42:00 -
[4]
If you're sick of meat, you're sick of life! 
Seriously - WTF keeps a vegan alive? What's left to eat? Sand?
DAB Eve Division |
Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.09.26 21:06:00 -
[5]
I wont' eat anything that didn't have a face.
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Tsavong Lah
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Posted - 2005.09.26 21:41:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Deka Kador
I wont' eat anything that didn't have a face.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.09.27 03:32:00 -
[7]
I wont eat anything that can't be brought back to life by a good vet.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Latest Video: *NEW* Carnage! |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.27 04:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: jamesw
I wont eat anything that can't be brought back to life by a good vet.
Most vegetables wouldn't even need a vet. Just plant em.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Magnum III
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Posted - 2005.09.27 05:24:00 -
[9]
Even plants have feelings, really! But what can you do? You got to eat something.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.09.27 06:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Deka Kador
I wont' eat anything that didn't have a face.
Agreed.
I used to have a girlfriend who got upset about the idea of veal. I'd bring up the subject, and then make really sad mournful mooing sounds. It drove her crazy.
Now I'm dating a girl who's an actual vegetarian. Well...until the occasional trip to IHOP for some eggs, hash browns, and BACON! She wouldn't let me use my phone to take a picture of her eating the bacon, though. Damn.
MOOOOO!!!
GDBT is recruiting! |
Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.09.27 08:08:00 -
[11]
Veganism, even vegetarianism is daft, we are not herbivore, we are omnivores leaning heavily to carnivores (due to our teeth layout) Herbivores dont have canines simple, we are not designed to ignore meat, plus its fact that neglecting meat leads to deficiencies. (thats why most veggies, vegans take vitamin supplements)
Anyways, look at it like this, your trapped on a desert island with a veggie, how long would the veggie take to give up on leaves and berries after watching you feast on fish and wild boar?
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.09.27 09:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Veganism, even vegetarianism is daft, we are not herbivore, we are omnivores leaning heavily to carnivores (due to our teeth layout) Herbivores dont have canines simple, we are not designed to ignore meat, plus its fact that neglecting meat leads to deficiencies. (thats why most veggies, vegans take vitamin supplements)
Anyways, look at it like this, your trapped on a desert island with a veggie, how long would the veggie take to give up on leaves and berries after watching you feast on fish and wild boar?
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Join Us
Vegetarian here, (though I do have a soft spot for sea food when on holiday).
Respectfully, I think you have missed the point Lord.
Vegetarianism and Veganism are lifestyle choices. Most non-meat eaters appreciate that the human body is designed to run on whatever is available. In our day and age there is no need to eat animals, we can get everything we need from all sorts of pulses and veg. If there is no need to eat meat then why make another animal suffer? I view it as a personal choice. I happily cook meat for guests and happliy do a roast turkey every year at xmas for family and friends. It's just that I choose not to partake.
You see most of us could probably kill a human to defend ourselves. That doesn't mean that we have to kill in everyday life.
There is no real need to take vitamin suppliments. They tend to help those who don't have the time to plan meals.
(I couldn't go vegan though, I love cheese too much).
---
Originally by: Winterblink
It's an online game. Online games are always populated at people who look at their wood elf and whine that everyone else's dagger is bigger than theirs.
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Lanfear's Bane
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:09:00 -
[13]
I am a vegetarian except for fish. And duck. I mean lets face it they are practically fish anyway, I mean they spend most of their time in the water. Or pork, beef, chicken - anything that lives near to water in fact.
So vegetarian apart from those.
Lanfear's Bane.
(Thanks Bill Bailey)
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The look of the Eyeless is fear. |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.09.27 12:18:00 -
[14]
Burn them all I say.
joke - fr those who don't undersand English humour
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: d'hofren
If there is no need to eat meat then why make another animal suffer?
Err ... you do realise that if everyone agreed with you and turned vegetarian, then cows, pigs, sheep and assorted other farm animals would become *extinct*?
I thought you cared for animals?
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:19:00 -
[16]
I'd just like to point out that plants are alive too.
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Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:20:00 -
[17]
Best statement on vegetarianism I ever heard
"I'm not a vegetarian because I don't like animals. I'm a vegetarnian because I REALLY hate plants".
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: d'hofren
If there is no need to eat meat then why make another animal suffer?
Err ... you do realise that if everyone agreed with you and turned vegetarian, then cows, pigs, sheep and assorted other farm animals would become *extinct*?
I thought you cared for animals?
Exactly, there probably only alive because we want to eat them.
And sure yeah, life-style choice, my arse!! we evolved from meat-eaters, and its simple fact that many many veggies are so because they believe animals are treated cruelly and they feel that by cutting demand they will affect the supply.
And you can look it up anywhere, you need to eat very carefully when you are a vegetarian as you can become very deficient in many things, this is FACT my friend, so overall, i have missed nothing
But hey!! ive nothing against veggies at all, my mum and sister are, i just feel that where we meant to eat veg and only veg we wouldnt be designed to kill. The only reason its a "life style" change is because we are developed enough to coose what we want to eat, and lucky enough to generally be able to do it.
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:45:00 -
[19]
Hey buddy, we're on the top of the food chain!
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.09.27 14:04:00 -
[20]
I also evolved from a small ape that gained it's advantage over the next ape family when it developed the key skill of stoving other animals heads in with sharp stones. That doesn't make me want to club everything in sight. I have, (as a human), evolved to a stage where I can make my own choices. It is a simple choice. I've been this way for over ten years. I am healthy. There you go.
Truly, it really isn't that difficult to eat a healthy diet as a vegetarian or a vegan. You just have to be aware of what you don't get in your diet and ensure you "fill" those needs. I have been a veggie for over ten years. Yes, it does take more effort than just throwing another TV dinner in the microwave or dialing dominoes every night. Then again I enjoy cooking so what the heck.
I've already said I have nothing against meat eaters. My choice not to, your choice to.
---
Originally by: Winterblink
It's an online game. Online games are always populated at people who look at their wood elf and whine that everyone else's dagger is bigger than theirs.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.09.27 14:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xeau
Are there any others?
The wife and I did it for just over six months, and spent five years octo-lovo. Basically started out as ruthless ideologists, and have allowed Darth Vader to creep back in.
If nothing else it makes people you talk to consider what they put into their mouths, assuming you are the conversational type.
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Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.09.27 14:20:00 -
[22]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007158041/202-8337789-7698230
Read this if you are in the UK and think supermarkets fresh food is good for you.
______________________________________________
Note| This character is for forum posting purposes only. |
slapp
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Posted - 2005.09.27 15:50:00 -
[23]
For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.
__________________________________________________
CAREBEAR, n.
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling. |
Uther Doull
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Posted - 2005.09.27 16:03:00 -
[24]
i don't even like meat, but i hate animals so i eat it on general principle 
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Kyguard
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Posted - 2005.09.27 16:07:00 -
[25]
Humans are omnivores people so we are obviously meant to consume protein derived from other animals.
Eat your veggies kids! 
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God is always on the side with the best artillery. |
Eurydike
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Posted - 2005.09.27 16:11:00 -
[26]
I try to eat only meat that is from ecologically run farms. I know, it's more expensive then run-of-the-mill stuff, but at least I'm not eating pounds of antibiotics and hormones with it.
Full fledged vegetarianism or even veganism just isn't for me.
But every once in a while (usually around that time of the month) I have a really strong urge to go to Burger King. ;_;
On a totally unrelated sidenote: Steven the Vegan by the absolutely hilarious Olde English comedy group.
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Sarela "Eurydike" Taris
There will be a real sig soonÖ. |
Xharky
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Posted - 2005.09.27 16:11:00 -
[27]
Well...more meat for me
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<&Hammerhead> Observator results make pretty good safe spots |
Deadeye Dave
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Posted - 2005.09.27 16:51:00 -
[28]
I think there is nothing wrong with being vegetarian or vegan. It seems that most people think this leads to deficiencies. If you think this is 'extreme' what about being fruitarian?
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DeMundus
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Posted - 2005.09.27 17:24:00 -
[29]
Yeah I am and have been for over two years now - and I am very fine with it.
As I say: We do no longer live on natures conditions, but cultural conditions. We do not need to slaughter, what others may call "Lower form of species", to survive.
And generally alot could do with not eating all the **** thats out there, obese is being called a population wide diesase...
Sry for my bad english atm, tyoing fast - making dinner And no its not sand...
Regards
DeM
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Kazim
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Posted - 2005.09.27 17:52:00 -
[30]
I think you vegetarians/vegans are mad.
Ok there... I've said it
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Princess Beefcurtains
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:03:00 -
[31]
Hey, Veggies, apparently all you need to do oncee you've freed all the dead animals from the butchers is this =>http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/sws/animal.htm...
Why not donate to the 'Beefy wants a dreadnaught' fund - Worthiest cause in eve imho... |
Gift
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:14:00 -
[32]
Im eating a bacon cheeseburger as i read this and I'm making my keyboard all greasy typing this.
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DeMundus
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Posted - 2005.09.27 19:29:00 -
[33]
Edited by: DeMundus on 27/09/2005 19:29:47
... sigh, I hate this discoussion - Iam not the type who tells other people what is right and what is wrong - I belive such things to be social constructs.
I can only tell what I have seen and learned in my years - i am one of those who read philosophy at uni. Now Iam no Wizard, but I did a voulentary paper on the subject. I concluded in the end of the paper, as I said above that its not about right and wrong but about equality and repect for life. Pain is a large factor here, pain is somehing that cannot be shared, one persons pain we cannot feel - he/she can tell about it, thats all.
Now we have industrialized anmials, plz prove me wrong, there is ALOT of unnesseary "pain" - and how come we cannot respect that something "lower" than us has a right not to enddue pain. When I ride my bike past a large meat factory where I live I sometimes think about the judes in WW2 - Whats diffrent from racism/narzism and specisime...
Ok balblabla... I could go one.
Iam not a animal rights rebellion, I just do what I think is right in my mind. THe day my life is depending on eating meat, sure I will eat meat - I might even eat you or your babies
Regards
DeM
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.27 19:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: DeMundus
As I say: We do no longer live on natures conditions, but cultural conditions. We do not need to slaughter, what others may call "Lower form of species", to survive.
Oh yes we do. You just choose to slaughter vegetation, rather than animals. 
In order to surive, we must consume other living matter. Only plants (most) and bacteria (some rather odd ones) are immune from that demand.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
DeMundus
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:17:00 -
[35]
Well plants don't have a brain and no spinal cordex or whats its name- big diffrents between plants and us animals, so do not be silly
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: DeMundus
Well plants don't have a brain and no spinal cordex or whats its name- big diffrents between plants and us animals, so do not be silly
But some have eyes, and some have ears, and others have hearts.
Personally, I like the whole eating babies idea.
Go Fred!
<- Working real hard for [24] |
TauTut
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Posted - 2005.09.27 21:29:00 -
[37]
Surely it's about personal choice? We've evolved above and beyond our basic animal nature and have exhibited discretion in all manner of things throughout recent history. It's a key factor in being a human IMHO.
I would never preach to anyone who ate meat or taunt them regardless of what I felt about their actions, yet I'm repeatedly amazed at the frosty defensive nature of some (not all) people who find out I'm veggie. My underlying attitude was 'If I can kill it - I can eat it' (not every item of food - just in principle). I don't feel like I could even kill a fish - so I leave it well alone.
So what - some people eat meat - some don't. Nobody gets a ferkin prize at the end of the day.
Even as a veggie though - I struggle to see how vegans get on.
-TT
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Aryadnah
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Posted - 2005.09.27 22:15:00 -
[38]
Quote:
yet I'm repeatedly amazed at the frosty defensive nature of some (not all) people who find out I'm veggie.
You can even see it in this thread
I just don't understand the 'look at our teeth, we were meant to eat meat' thing...is that only from religious people or what? who meant you to? god? is it preordained? we may have evolved that way but I fail to see the connection between how our teeth evolved and how we choose to live our lives...
It's weird how defensive people are about eating meat and how threatened they feel by vegetarianism...It's ok! You can eat meat! I'm not threatening you, I won't take your rights away!
ph34r vegetarians apparently
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2005.09.27 22:31:00 -
[39]
Some people like eating animals. Some people don't.
As long as they stick to their own devices and don't try to force their own ideologies onto others, I don't see a problem.
On a vaguely related note, I could never be a vegetarian because I enjoy eating chicken too much.
One Step Further |
Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.09.27 22:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Deka Kador
Best statement on vegetarianism I ever heard
"I'm not a vegetarian because I don't like animals. I'm a vegetarnian because I REALLY hate plants".
QFT
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.28 00:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: TauTut
yet I'm repeatedly amazed at the frosty defensive nature of some (not all) people who find out I'm veggie.
In your particular case, such an attitude may be unjustified. I can only refer you to the many cases of vegetarians I know, who've tried to make me out to be some sort of mass murderer because I eat meat. That sort of treatment does tend to make you rather frosty and defensive.
From a purely biological/evolutionary standpoint, an omnivorous diet is what we evolved to survive on, and it suits us best. Words like "meant" to eat it, are emotive, and best avoided - unless you want to bring religion into the forum, which isn't allowed .
Since we've also now evolved intelligence, and put it to use in inventing moral frameworks, yes, we can choose to overrule that biological preference if we see fit. Some see fit to do so; some don't. Some, on both sides, make a point of trying to prove that the other side is "wrong." Arguments on both sides tend to be badly flawed; the one that particularly bugs me is the vegan argument that it's about "saving the poor animals" - who would be promptly rendered extinct if farmers couldn't make a profit by raising them for food. But that's because I'm a carnivore. Veggies will no doubt point to equally obvious flaws in the meat-eaters' arguments - I know they're there, I've seen them 
What a lot of all this boils down to, is a very fundamental desire on the part of almost all humans, which is that they feel the need to prove they're "right." Most people aren't happy just to do what they want, and let others choose to do something else. It seems that very act of someone else making the same choice YOU did, puts you on the defensive because it implies to you that they think your choice is wrong. (I use "you" in the general sense here.)
It's very hard for most humans to accept, or even to understand, that there might be more than one acceptable choice. This again comes down to evolution - we evolved in scenarios where one choice would get you killed, and the other, wouldn't. (Going out to collect grass while the lion is in the savannah, or waiting till he's left? sort of thing) Our mindset is very much of a yes/no, right/wrong system, which doesn't always, or even very often, fit the sort of world we live in now. This is why you get so many petty arguments about things that really shouldn't matter a fig. Or, for the anti-vegetarians, really shouldn't matter a veal cutlet.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
DeMundus
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Posted - 2005.09.28 01:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ebedar
Some people like eating animals. Some people don't.
As long as they stick to their own devices and don't try to force their own ideologies onto others, I don't see a problem.
On a vaguely related note, I could never be a vegetarian because I enjoy eating chicken too much.
I like burning small children and enjoy watching.
Is that wrong?
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.28 03:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lanfear's Bane
I am a vegetarian except for fish. And duck. I mean lets face it they are practically fish anyway, I mean they spend most of their time in the water. Or pork, beef, chicken - anything that lives near to water in fact.
So vegetarian apart from those.
Lanfear's Bane.
(Thanks Bill Bailey)
Rofl.
In that case I'm a vegetarian apart from fish, duck, white and red meat
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TauTut
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Posted - 2005.09.28 05:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
In your particular case, such an attitude may be unjustified. I can only refer you to the many cases of vegetarians I know, who've tried to make me out to be some sort of mass murderer because I eat meat. That sort of treatment does tend to make you rather frosty and defensive.
From a purely biological/evolutionary standpoint, an omnivorous diet is what we evolved to survive on, and it suits us best. Words like "meant" to eat it, are emotive, and best avoided - unless you want to bring religion into the forum, which isn't allowed .
Since we've also now evolved intelligence, and put it to use in inventing moral frameworks, yes, we can choose to overrule that biological preference if we see fit. Some see fit to do so; some don't. Some, on both sides, make a point of trying to prove that the other side is "wrong." Arguments on both sides tend to be badly flawed; the one that particularly bugs me is the vegan argument that it's about "saving the poor animals" - who would be promptly rendered extinct if farmers couldn't make a profit by raising them for food. But that's because I'm a carnivore. Veggies will no doubt point to equally obvious flaws in the meat-eaters' arguments - I know they're there, I've seen them
What a lot of all this boils down to, is a very fundamental desire on the part of almost all humans, which is that they feel the need to prove they're "right." Most people aren't happy just to do what they want, and let others choose to do something else. It seems that very act of someone else making the same choice YOU did, puts you on the defensive because it implies to you that they think your choice is wrong. (I use "you" in the general sense here.)
It's very hard for most humans to accept, or even to understand, that there might be more than one acceptable choice. This again comes down to evolution - we evolved in scenarios where one choice would get you killed, and the other, wouldn't. (Going out to collect grass while the lion is in the savannah, or waiting till he's left? sort of thing) Our mindset is very much of a yes/no, right/wrong system, which doesn't always, or even very often, fit the sort of world we live in now. This is why you get so many petty arguments about things that really shouldn't matter a fig. Or, for the anti-vegetarians, really shouldn't matter a veal cutlet.
How can I beat oration like that. I'm a verbal pauper!
-TT
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2005.09.28 06:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Our mindset is very much of a yes/no, right/wrong system, which doesn't always, or even very often, fit the sort of world we live in now. This is why you get so many petty arguments about things that really shouldn't matter a fig.
Ignoring morality/ethics is not an easy thing to do. Most people are attached and motivated to act in a certain way if they believe it is right or better, if they believe something is wrong they will most likely avoid acting on it.
So to say that right/wrong questions don't fit this sort of world seems strange since it almost sounds like you want to throw out morality in general that way, which will be near impossible.
This is not a hijack
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CelticKnight
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Posted - 2005.09.28 07:23:00 -
[46]
heheh i *****ed up when i read Quote:
If there is no need to eat meat then why make another animal suffer?
THIS!
They soo suffer??? ROFL.. what you think the slaughter houses poke them with sharp sticks until they DIE?!
ROFL... done in two ways that i know of.. either a gun. BANG dead before you could blink.. or electricity (even faster ZAP gone)
Commen misconception that they suffer. They dont. bullets kill instantly.
Originally by: Oveur
I can make 100 Trillion ISK with a single click.
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Valisk
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Posted - 2005.09.28 11:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CelticKnight
Commen misconception that they suffer. They dont. bullets kill instantly.
Yeah, the bullet may kill instantly, but do you recon the animal in question enjoys living in a confined space, being driven hundreds of miles in a crammed full truck, then waiting in a line whilst it listens to hundreds of other animals panic then die?
It's just a shame animals taste so damn nice.
DAB Eve Division |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.28 12:22:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lianhaun
So to say that right/wrong questions don't fit this sort of world seems strange since it almost sounds like you want to throw out morality in general that way, which will be near impossible.
In some cases, I even would; I myself would say, and most veggies in this thread have said, that the question of vegetarianism isn't a big enough issue to drag morals into it. It should be personal choice.
In other, more important cases, it's not so much that there is no moral question; it's that the question cannot simply be answered yes or no. Most things are more like the Heap of Sand paradox; one grain of sand manifestly is not a heap, a million grains of sand manifestly are, but if you keep adding grains one a time, when does it become a heap? There isn't a yes/no answer, it happens gradually over time.
A great many moral and legal arguments come about because the human mindset deals in digital, yes/no, on/off systems; but the real world doesn't operate like that. It's analogue, at least down to quantum level. When does an embryo become a child? 28 weeks? (the legal limit on abortion in England.) 24 weeks? 16? The "right" answer is that it's a gradual process; something which manifestly is NOT a human beign - one sperm and one egg - become a human being over a period of nine months or so. There's no line to draw, there's no fixed point before which it isn't child and after which it is. But the law, and morality, can't handle things like that. Something's legal and ethical, or it isn't.
I merely point out that this is the cause of many of our moral problems. I don't pretend to have the solutions; I only wish someone did.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.09.28 12:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CelticKnight
heheh i *****ed up when i read Quote:
If there is no need to eat meat then why make another animal suffer?
THIS!
They soo suffer??? ROFL.. what you think the slaughter houses poke them with sharp sticks until they DIE?!
ROFL... done in two ways that i know of.. either a gun. BANG dead before you could blink.. or electricity (even faster ZAP gone)
Commen misconception that they suffer. They dont. bullets kill instantly.
Yes, bullets could kill instantly but bullets aren't used in commercial slaughterhouses.
Instant killing isn't part of the process either. The processes is called "stunning", The idea is to render the subject insensible to pain before the actual processing of the animal. The animals aren't actually dead before they are "processed".
---
Originally by: Winterblink
It's an online game. Online games are always populated at people who look at their wood elf and whine that everyone else's dagger is bigger than theirs.
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Taihira
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:39:00 -
[50]
I've never been confortable with the idea of factory farming - the conditions are pretty horrific. on the other hand, I'd go mad if I could only live on plants.
and in the situation of myself and a vegan stuck on a desert island with limited resources, it's comforting to know that I'm the one heigher up the food chain....
*sharpens knives*
mmm. the other white meat...
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.09.28 14:45:00 -
[51]
I only live on water.
♥♥♥♥♥
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baldurk
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Posted - 2005.09.28 15:07:00 -
[52]
Edited by: baldurk on 28/09/2005 15:07:22
Quote:
I merely point out that this is the cause of many of our moral problems. I don't pretend to have the solutions; I only wish someone did.
I do.
End the human race
Face it, we do NOT deserve to exist.
EDIT: typo city
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2005.09.28 15:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
s or so. There's no line to draw, there's no fixed point . But the law, and morality, can't handle things like that. Something's legal and ethical, or it isn't.
I merely point out that this is the cause of many of our moral problems. I don't pretend to have the solutions; I only wish someone did.
Actually there are moral theories that do say that that questions of ethics are often unclear, that often it lacks a precise points where it is right or wrong.
But assuming that there never is a definite right or wrong presummes already a theory about what moral values are. If you believe that in some cases there is a definite and universal case of something that is good, then you can be pretty sure you are inclinced to follow moral objectivism.
And I beg to differ, deciding whether you eat vegetarian or not has everything to do with morals ( if you decide to do it for the most common reason). Its just that everyone pretty much has their own idea's about what's good and bad, whats right or wrong.
Ethics isn't always about what everyone thinks of good and bad, it's a personal thing as well.
I believe humans are pretty much equal to animals, I dont want animals to suffer unnecessarily for me, I think that is wrong wrong ( just like I dont want humans to suffer for me when it can be avoided) based on my belief of the assumed equality between humans and animals.
I do believe that everyone has reasons for what they believe is good or wrong, you may not be aware of them or think about it in a constructive way ( hidden assumptions and there following consequences of it)
This is not a hijack
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 15:51:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 28/09/2005 15:54:23
Originally by: Aryadnah
Quote:
yet I'm repeatedly amazed at the frosty defensive nature of some (not all) people who find out I'm veggie.
You can even see it in this thread
I just don't understand the 'look at our teeth, we were meant to eat meat' thing...is that only from religious people or what? who meant you to? god? is it preordained? we may have evolved that way but I fail to see the connection between how our teeth evolved and how we choose to live our lives...
It's weird how defensive people are about eating meat and how threatened they feel by vegetarianism...It's ok! You can eat meat! I'm not threatening you, I won't take your rights away!
ph34r vegetarians apparently
Quite how religion got into this thread baffles me but no, my local man of the cloth did not teach me to believe this is how we evolved, just like he failed to make me believe that Adam and Eve are my folks many, many, times removed, and neither did he make me believe i should go kiss my children goodbye to blow up a train, no, science has taught me this fact as it is.
There are three categories of life on this planet when it comes down to food
Carnivore - Meat Eater
Herbivore - Plant Eater
Omnivore - Eats both
Its fact that Herbivore have no canines, it is also fact that these canines have but one purpose, to pierce flesh and allow the attacker to hold on easier. Plant Eater dont require these tools are the offer no surface area with which to grind and mush plant matter with.
Another interesting point you should look at, a carnivore will eat a meal and then go hours even days without a meal, while a herbivore will spend 90% of its waking hours munching, i wonder why this is. Hmmm
And i never said this fact of life should dictate how we lead our lives, i merely said that it is against or biological nature to deny our bodies what it is primarily designed for, as it is also against our nature to pollute our bodies with drugs, yet that too is a life choice, pre-defined by no-one (unless your mum shoots up while pregnant with you, then you have little choice in the matter)
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Kerixi
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Posted - 2005.09.28 17:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CelticKnight
heheh i *****ed up when i read Quote:
If there is no need to eat meat then why make another animal suffer?
THIS!
They soo suffer??? ROFL.. what you think the slaughter houses poke them with sharp sticks until they DIE?!
ROFL... done in two ways that i know of.. either a gun. BANG dead before you could blink.. or electricity (even faster ZAP gone)
Commen misconception that they suffer. They dont. bullets kill instantly.
They don't use bullets as there have been case when slaughtering cows when the bullet has ricocheted (sp?) from the cows skull, exited through the nose and hit the man holding the gun.
My hubby used to work on the kill floor of a slaughterhouse...in a good slaughter house they will stun the animal, fire a bolt into the brain and slit its throat. Each animal is dead before it's processed with the minimal amount of suffering possible.
Sadly not all slaughterhouses are good and the animal is kicked around the yard and tormented before finally being chased onto the kill floor, hung up by a hook through it's rear ankles, has it's throat slit and sent off to be processed while still squealing and squirming.
I don't have a problem with vegitarians, it's their choice. Personally I don't see the harm in eating meat but I prefer to eat meat that comes from good farms and has been slaughtered humanely. Thanks to our supermarkets you don't always know where your meat comes from but if I hear bad thinks about certain farms and slaughterhouses I don't buy their produce I'll look elsewhere. That's the best you can do really.
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`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`
`------'`------` `--` Fuzzpuss Inc. |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2005.09.28 20:43:00 -
[56]
Personaly, I eat meat just because it tastes good, I could care less that the animals get killed..
The only problem I have with anything food related is when you cook something alive, like when I saw how these chineese people cut the fish open with a knife and cook it alive on a frying pan so its still alive when you eat it... man those people have ****** up tastes...
besides that, I think not eating meat is just pointless... and vegan is just.. urgh why deprive yourself of deleciousness?
I mean I could understand if you did it to protest high food prices, or bordem in life, for other reasions like "saving animals lives" boohoo
also you may take note that im 16, and you can say im just ignorant and bad at spelling
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slapp
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Posted - 2005.09.28 22:07:00 -
[57]
Vegetarians also kill animals by eating their food  HOW CAN ANIMALS SURVIVE WITHOUT FOOD DAMN IT!?
__________________________________________________
CAREBEAR, n.
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling. |
EVENFLOW
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:02:00 -
[58]
<3 Bacon <3
I'm still waiting for bacon flavored ice cream, or Steak-Cake.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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DazDoorstep Challenge
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:20:00 -
[59]
Originally by: jbob2000
Hey buddy, we're on the top of the food chain!
That depends.
If you're swimming in shark or crocodile infested waters or running around in the sahara with lions and other cats, you're not exactly top of the food chain.
Those that dont eat meat because they believe animals suffer are good principled people. But the rest of us that like meat also know that given half a chance in the wild we'd be most animals next meal regardless of thier feelings of our wellbeing.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:52:00 -
[60]
I feel at this juncture the urge to tell everyone that I have eaten live lobster at a japanese sushi restaurant. The feeling of ripping its claws and tail and eating them while its still squirming for cover is amazing. Well it wasn't amazing, it was weird, and I definitely wouldnt do it again.
The point is, humans are herbivores, but we are also free thinking people. Let people make their own choices. For some people lettuce and tomatoes are food, for others they are looked as "things that food eats" if you know what I mean.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.09.29 21:35:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Anyways, look at it like this, your trapped on a desert island with a veggie, how long would the veggie take to give up on leaves and berries after watching you feast on fish and wild boar?
I would eat the vega, better him than me......
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.09.29 23:19:00 -
[62]
I could never be a Vegan, I like greifing those animals too much!
Originally by: James Lyrus
Complaining about PvP & Pirates in EVE is like complaining about the mines in minesweeper. |
Seiryu
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Posted - 2005.09.30 01:45:00 -
[63]
"You see most of us could probably kill a human to defend ourselves. That doesn't mean that we have to kill in everyday life."
We don't? ......oops
----True bravery is not lacking fear, but confronting it.----
"Name: Seiryu
Score: 52
Status: textbook example
Judge notes: Time is never on our side. "
-Kaleigh Doyle- |
Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.09.30 08:53:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Anyways, look at it like this, your trapped on a desert island with a veggie, how long would the veggie take to give up on leaves and berries after watching you feast on fish and wild boar?
I would eat the vega, better him than me......
Yeah, sooner rather than later too IMO, all them berries would give them the squits summat bad and make the island smell bad
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Mad Ahab
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Posted - 2005.09.30 16:12:00 -
[65]
Well technically, we are omnivorous and need to eat meat. However, modem man has a more sedimentary lifestyle and needs alot less of the protein, amino acids, and vitamin B12 found in the meats than he used to. An 8 ounce serving per day is sufficient for most people to function healthily. veganhealth.org has some very interesting studies comparing Vegan, Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian, and the (Fish/Chicken type that I forget the name of) diets regarding the cases of B12 anemia. It also explains why animal products are needed in the diet and supplimennts you should take if you choose to omit them completely. I have no problem with the moral choice, but if you are endangering your health I am against it.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." |
Yith Solarius
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Posted - 2005.09.30 16:25:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Saladin
That being said, I have strongly applaud Demundus for bringing up the issue of 'industrialization' of animals. Commercial interests and profiteering have taken the noble profession of agriculture and turned it into a heartless, faceless endeavor. Animals are caged in so they do not move around, they are fed the most obnoxious things (no they are not eating heay), including remnants from their buddy in the next cage/stall who was slaughtered last week. Then we wonder how things like Mad Cow came about. Slaughtering is not carefulling executed tradiition, but is an assembly line task now. I've lived in areas where the cows eat grass, roam free and are slaughtered individually. And anything I have consumed here in the US cannot compare. Even the burgers here are bland and need a heavy dose of spices. I may not be a vegan or a vegetarian, but I am ****ed at what big business has done to the food industry.
Well said, my parents are farmers and I take huge offence at anyone who suggests that all farmer, are motovated purly by selfishness and greed and do not care for the animals that they are rearing, thats does not represent my father or any other farmers that I know!
Big busness has ruined the farming industry but its not so much the corperate producers as the supermarkets that have caused the most amount of damage to agriculture, there culture of perfect looks before quality at the lowest possible cost is causing more and more chemicals to be used as farmers stuggle to make perfectly healthy and nutritous foods match what an buricrat working in an office thinks a vegetable looks like so he can sell it.
Of cource he's already had to sell at a 25% lower because at the last moment the supermarket has said "I know we aranged a price but we are lowering the price now, take it or leave it" and there is no option but to agree, if you say no the goods will simply be imported from Brazil instead and will be left to rot in the farm. Not even in Eve would you get away with this form of buisness practice but [sigh]...
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CelticKnight
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Posted - 2005.09.30 16:26:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Yeah, the bullet may kill instantly, but do you recon the animal in question enjoys living in a confined space, being driven hundreds of miles in a crammed full truck, then waiting in a line whilst it listens to hundreds of other animals panic then die?
i love that.. i dont know what sort of farms they have where you live.. but here they are HUGE! you take a drive out past one... theres about 100 cattle to about 2km^2 now put that in terms to what a city housing block is... about 2000 HUMANS to about 1km^2...
Dont belive me? heh.. ill send photos... we have farms here bigger than some small countries :) the cattle ARE NOT breed in cages they roam around... relatively free... (ofc theres fences) they have MASSIVE places to move around... and they wander about and eat thier grass... and seem rather happy. Least they arnt running around like rabid dogs going to work each day just to earn a few dollars to feed the family and being rather unhappy about said situations.....
IMHO i will not eat Battery Hen eggs if i can avoid it (bah.. small things anyway) we have our own chickens to provide us with food..
Yes i live in the country :)
DONT tell me cattle are kept in tight places ready for killing... cause ive SEEN what sort of condition they live in.. and ill send ya photos if ya dont belive me!
Originally by: Oveur
I can make 100 Trillion ISK with a single click.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.30 17:00:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Saladin
I've lived in areas where the cows eat grass, roam free and are slaughtered individually. And anything I have consumed here in the US cannot compare. Even the burgers here are bland and need a heavy dose of spices. I may not be a vegan or a vegetarian, but I am annoyed at what big business has done to the food industry.
The fault is not big business; the fault is big population. The system you describe could not possibly, under any circumstances, feed seven billion humans.
Which four billion do you think should be killed, so that the rest of us can have food bred in a humane manner? Well ... the point is it's never as easy as it looks.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.09.30 19:18:00 -
[69]
Personally I have no problems with non-preachy veggies, preachy veggies however make my fists itch...
Having a animal killed to feed you is a lesser evil than depopulating a field for your non-animal products, all those animals are just as dead and unused.
This is of course just my opinion.
Mind you seeing veggie haggis on teh menu of the works canteen *****ed me up...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Scoundrelus
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Posted - 2005.10.01 00:37:00 -
[70]
I have a frickin enzyme deficiency and I cant eat meat at all! My body refuses to digest it.
===============================================
I will punch you with my laser!
-Scoundrelus |
Saladin
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Posted - 2005.10.01 03:05:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Saladin on 01/10/2005 03:06:08
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Saladin
I've lived in areas where the cows eat grass, roam free and are slaughtered individually. And anything I have consumed here in the US cannot compare. Even the burgers here are bland and need a heavy dose of spices. I may not be a vegan or a vegetarian, but I am annoyed at what big business has done to the food industry.
The fault is not big business; the fault is big population. The system you describe could not possibly, under any circumstances, feed seven billion humans.
Which four billion do you think should be killed, so that the rest of us can have food bred in a humane manner? Well ... the point is it's never as easy as it looks.
I appreciate that the world population is increasing and food requirements change, but the idea that there is a food shortage is false. These animals are being raised and slaughtered at un-natural mass production facilities not to feed the starving people of the world, but to feed those with already generous waist lines. The world does produce enough food to feed itself, its just that the distrubution of this production is uneven.
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CelticKnight
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Posted - 2005.10.01 03:46:00 -
[72]
dunno bout the rest of the world.. but we have our meat bred, and killed, humainly here... and we export it to the rest of the world! :)
So next time ya at the shops... instead of buying the local meat of questionable quality. buy Australian Beef. :) and rest assured that its bred + slaughtered humainly :)
\o/ Go Australian!
:)
Originally by: Oveur
I can make 100 Trillion ISK with a single click.
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zcinner
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Posted - 2005.10.05 19:44:00 -
[73]
i am..
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DeMundus
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Posted - 2005.10.05 21:02:00 -
[74]
Edited by: DeMundus on 05/10/2005 21:03:09
Originally by: CelticKnight
dunno bout the rest of the world.. but we have our meat bred, and killed, humainly here... and we export it to the rest of the world! :)
So next time ya at the shops... instead of buying the local meat of questionable quality. buy Australian Beef. :) and rest assured that its bred + slaughtered humainly :)
\o/ Go Australian!
:)
I was reading this article about sheeps in Australia, now its a long time since I read it - but it was about you aussis cutting of sheeps butts... is this a fetish?
It had something to to with flies lying eggs in the skin-folders or something, but: The point of the article was that you used a real cheap way instead of giving out medicine or something - now it was just very cruel. Well I guess I have to find that article now...
Laters
DeM
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ElCapitan
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Posted - 2005.10.06 22:01:00 -
[75]
for me the whole argument that people are vegeterians due to animal stuff kinda makes no sense. The meat is already dead when you buy it, so might as well eat it. However i probably would have trouble killing something myself in order to eat it.
I can understand however if somebody is a vegeterian due to health reasons. Diet that is too meat-heavy is not too good for your health.
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Alchemos
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:35:00 -
[76]
I am vegetarian, have been for about a year and feel far better for it. If you choose to eat meat, I have no problem with that at all - it's your choice.
As for the argument that the human body is designed to be omnivorous; evolution comes from changes we make now.
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Stephen HB
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Posted - 2005.10.08 02:17:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
I have a frickin enzyme deficiency and I cant eat meat at all! My body refuses to digest it.
Oh, dude, that's harsh. PKU?
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"Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?" Obi-Wan Kenobi |
Stephen HB
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Posted - 2005.10.08 02:24:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Stephen HB on 08/10/2005 02:24:40
Originally by: DeMundus
Edited by: DeMundus on 05/10/2005 21:03:09
Originally by: CelticKnight
dunno bout the rest of the world.. but we have our meat bred, and killed, humainly here... and we export it to the rest of the world! :)
So next time ya at the shops... instead of buying the local meat of questionable quality. buy Australian Beef. :) and rest assured that its bred + slaughtered humainly :)
\o/ Go Australian!
:)
I was reading this article about sheeps in Australia, now its a long time since I read it - but it was about you aussis cutting of sheeps butts... is this a fetish?
It had something to to with flies lying eggs in the skin-folders or something, but: The point of the article was that you used a real cheap way instead of giving out medicine or something - now it was just very cruel. Well I guess I have to find that article now...
Laters
DeM
You're talking about mulesing, which involves cutting away some skin around the butt of the sheep. Only wool-bearing skin is removed, so once the cut heals the naturally bare area is expanded. This reduces sweating and improves cleanliness, and is used to prevent the revolting and painful condition of 'flystrike' where flies lay maggots and the back end of the sheep winds up a stinking rotten mess.
The procedure is performed in as humane a fashion as possible, it's not like we line up the sheep and slash their butts off with a sword or anything.
edit: spelling
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"Who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?" Obi-Wan Kenobi |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2005.10.08 09:57:00 -
[79]
I am a humanitarian.
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Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.10.08 10:00:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
I am a humanitarian.
You eat humans?
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.10.08 10:00:00 -
[81]
This threads put me in the mood for a burger king.
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