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Commander Marquell
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:04:00 -
[1]
I've trying various weapons out on my Amarrian char and now this one and have to admit the results are confusing. I should mention that all my weapon skills are at lvl 2 with no supporting skills or upgrades. I started with beam lasers on my punisher and found I couldn't keep fighting without running out of power. I could kill a 0.6 rat in about a min and take minor shield damage. I decided I wanted to free up more power for shields and mods and switched to 200mm autocannons. Found I could kill the same rat in about in about 45 sec and had way more power. Then I tried 280mm howitzers and could kill the same rat in about 30 secs. Then I got an Inquisitor and found I could kill the rat in about 15 secs. Now I'm flying on this char in a Breacher and kill that rat in one salvo.
Everyone keeps saying missiles are gimped. How? Are they ^*&% in pvp? Can they be jammed or shot down? I'm deeling nearly 150% more damage with them compared to other weapons. I don't want to focus on missiles to discover they have some fatal weakness.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:07:00 -
[2]
with raising skills your guns will get extremly good. But missles will stay behind them.
Everything you cant insta kill with missles, you would have done more damage with using guns.
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Put your panties on your head! |
Avatar Ashlee
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:11:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Commander Marquell
I've trying various weapons out on my Amarrian char and now this one and have to admit the results are confusing. I should mention that all my weapon skills are at lvl 2 with no supporting skills or upgrades. I started with beam lasers on my punisher and found I couldn't keep fighting without running out of power. I could kill a 0.6 rat in about a min and take minor shield damage. I decided I wanted to free up more power for shields and mods and switched to 200mm autocannons. Found I could kill the same rat in about in about 45 sec and had way more power. Then I tried 280mm howitzers and could kill the same rat in about 30 secs. Then I got an Inquisitor and found I could kill the rat in about 15 secs. Now I'm flying on this char in a Breacher and kill that rat in one salvo.
Everyone keeps saying missiles are gimped. How? Are they ^*&% in pvp? Can they be jammed or shot down? I'm deeling nearly 150% more damage with them compared to other weapons. I don't want to focus on missiles to discover they have some fatal weakness.
Get some skills and those lasers use little cap and you have a huge capacitor.
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mexxa
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:30:00 -
[4]
Are you sure? I use heavies a lot and they can hit 190 but frequently hit 30-50. A friend hauler lost a ship because of this, I would have wiped the rats out in two shots on each if they hadn't gone all nerfed just then.
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So where's Adam? |
Commander Marquell
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mexxa
Are you sure? I use heavies a lot and they can hit 190 but frequently hit 30-50. A friend hauler lost a ship because of this, I would have wiped the rats out in two shots on each if they hadn't gone all nerfed just then.
I've been using lights and average at 90-100. Maybe yours is TOO big?
And to the rest of you thanks for the feedback. I'll swing more towards guns now.
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mexxa
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:39:00 -
[6]
I use and yes they are consistant but heavies hit much further and can do a lot more damage.
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So where's Adam? |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.29 19:29:00 -
[7]
"Can do", yes, but generally don't against frigs.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: mexxa
I use and yes they are consistant but heavies hit much further and can do a lot more damage.
their long ROF really screws their overall damage potential.
With my heavy beam lasers i can get 250 dmg per hit, but shoot nearly 4 times faster than my heavy launchers fire.
This just doesnt quite seem fair to me.
____________________________________________
Custom Sigs Made. Convo for details
http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/
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slothe
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:07:00 -
[9]
ssshhh, someone will be suggesting to nerf missiles soon..
oh, thats already happened.
arent they bad now then?
/emote is confused.
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.09.29 21:00:00 -
[10]
missiles are godly, guns suck!
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"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.09.29 21:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Randay
missiles are godly, guns suck!
and logical conclusion is to nerf geddon? 
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
Randay
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Posted - 2005.09.29 21:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: JoeSomebody
Originally by: Randay
missiles are godly, guns suck!
and logical conclusion is to nerf geddon?
BRILLIANT!!
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"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
Weirda
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Posted - 2005.09.29 22:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Commander Marquell
I've trying various weapons out on my Amarrian char and now this one and have to admit the results are confusing. I should mention that all my weapon skills are at lvl 2 with no supporting skills or upgrades. I started with beam lasers on my punisher and found I couldn't keep fighting without running out of power. I could kill a 0.6 rat in about a min and take minor shield damage. I decided I wanted to free up more power for shields and mods and switched to 200mm autocannons. Found I could kill the same rat in about in about 45 sec and had way more power. Then I tried 280mm howitzers and could kill the same rat in about 30 secs. Then I got an Inquisitor and found I could kill the rat in about 15 secs. Now I'm flying on this char in a Breacher and kill that rat in one salvo.
Everyone keeps saying missiles are gimped. How? Are they ^*&% in pvp? Can they be jammed or shot down? I'm deeling nearly 150% more damage with them compared to other weapons. I don't want to focus on missiles to discover they have some fatal weakness.
from what you said - am wondering what rats you were shooting at? angel rats are EM/TH resistant more then others, and depending on what type of ammo/missile you were using could have made a HUGE difference.
especially since projectile weapons without a damage bonus (i.e. on a punisher) do much less raw damage then lasers.
perhaps you want to switch region and fight sanshas or bloods, either that or go with projectile on a minmatar ship (you are minmatar after all).
--
Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Vang Vorkain
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Posted - 2005.09.30 00:37:00 -
[14]
ok i just got heavy missles, and i think they are messed up i was useing light missles against some heavy drones, in a agent mish. level 3 doing 60-90 dam per hit.
ok i go out and get heavy missles and bring the skill to level 2, go out there and i launch 3 missles at the same drone and it comes up 18 dam 26 dam 24 dam. i was like what the $%^&.
so i dont know what im doing wrong? but the heavy missles are messed up and if this is what missles are like then why even bother spending the points in it.
i just think its funny that my med. guns the 760 710 what ever the number is howitzer hits for like 128 and my heavy missles hit for 18 hmmmmm something not right here?
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.30 00:56:00 -
[15]
Yes, but your howitzers have the downside of not exactly being bullseye-accurate against drones doing anything other than flying straight at you. Missiles, by contrast, hit every single time. Try taking on a spider drone with med guns and you'll see the problem. Heavy Missiles are anti-cruiser weapons; light missiles are anti-frig. They work the same way as med/light guns but with constant damage per shot rather than variable (0-120 in this case).
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.09.30 01:00:00 -
[16]
Missles are great if ur shooting the right target. If ur shooting something smaller, even if its not moving, they suck.
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Tomias Itaraou
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Posted - 2005.09.30 01:24:00 -
[17]
Try killing a spider drone with missiles.
Good luck - your dps will be less then 1.
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Therin Dracul
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Posted - 2005.09.30 03:26:00 -
[18]
Beam lasers are very poor.
The only thing they have going for them is range.
They do less dps, and use more cap per second than their pulse equivalents.
Their tracking sucks, too.
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Will Farva
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Posted - 2005.09.30 07:50:00 -
[19]
Heavy Missiles depend quite a lot on signature radius, which means that damage on small targets is much lower than on large. There are skills to reduce this however and you can always use a Target Painter as well.
You have to pick the right missiles for the job, Heavies/Cruise have a higher base damage, but are not always the right choice for killing eg. frigs and drones.
Always fit one small launcher if you have heavies normally or vice versa, that way you are always prepared for all eventualities
Missiles are now very dependandt on skills, and not only the light/heavy/cruise etc. Make sure to train basically all skills with missile in the name.
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Stuart Price
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Posted - 2005.09.30 09:05:00 -
[20]
Except for fofs and defenders. Because they suck.
Defenders need to autolaunch to be any use at all any more and fofs need to ignore drones. And not do worse damage than kittens tongue.
But tbh, I don't mind the new missile changes. I can still kill things with missiles, but then I'm flying a Raven with cal bs5 and the new skills up to 4. The ability to choose your damage type is still a nice one to have.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
AlphaM
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Posted - 2005.09.30 09:12:00 -
[21]
Were you shield tanking your punisher? with duel pulses and web and AB running i my cap stays good, i can run the Armour repper for a while too. Punishers are tough little things.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.30 09:45:00 -
[22]
With "noob" skills, missiles tend to be more effective than their turret counterparts. With "good" skills, the balance swings the other way - turrets generally outclass missiles in most categories, especially since missiles inflict insignificant damage against anything under their size class and don't instantly strike the target (flight time ftl :P ).
-Wrayeth
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.30 12:24:00 -
[23]
missiles are over nerfded,
they deal 1/3 of the damage that a turret would do AND theyr ROF is 4x as slow.
with 6 torpedo launchers i can not take out a deadspace raven, with a bounty of 2.5 milion isk tough i can tank him infinitive long, i can not break its tanking, also there are no damage mods for missiles
exept a t1 ballistic control system. ( no target painters dont work on missiles)
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.30 12:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The Wizz117
missiles are over nerfded,
I'll agree with that - they should inflict a bit more damage to cruiser-sized ships than they do currently. Damage vs. frigs is fine.
Quote:
they deal 1/3 of the damage that a turret would do AND theyr ROF is 4x as slow.
with 6 torpedo launchers i can not take out a deadspace raven, with a bounty of 2.5 milion isk tough i can tank him infinitive long, i can not break its tanking,
I know what you mean. The best thing to do is just train up your torpedos skill further.
Quote:
also there are no damage mods for missiles
exept a t1 ballistic control system.
There are named versions, currently, but no tech 2. The tech 2 ballistic control should be out SoonÖ.
Quote:
( no target painters dont work on missiles)
Actually, they do, but you have to use three of 'em to get missiles doing normal damage to cruisers. The problem is that the raven can't spare the medslots to fit enough of them to make a difference. They need highslot versions, IMHO.
-Wrayeth
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2005.09.30 12:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tomias Itaraou
Try killing a spider drone with missiles.
Good luck - your dps will be less then 1.
I do, in lvl 3 missions, with the 3 Assault Launchers I fitted on my Ferox, without any problems. I only see that Drone at the end of an Extravaganza, and I'm killing it in a few salvoes (yes, I do have some Light Drones punching it too). Definitevely more than 1 DPS, but I don't have the exact number at hand.
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Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2005.09.30 12:41:00 -
[26]
Training up the new skills might help a little, but as far as I know you're better off using rockets and light missiles against frigate targets.
Does anybody know the formula for how damage is done to frigates from missiles now? I think it has something to do with the target's sig radius and the missile's explosion range (I honestly have no clue). |
Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2005.09.30 13:27:00 -
[27]
Solution is simple NERF THE NERF !
*snip*
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This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation or that of the Imperium Alliance in any way.
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Bit Steen
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Posted - 2005.09.30 13:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: The Wizz117
missiles are over nerfded,
with 6 torpedo launchers i can not take out a deadspace raven, with a bounty of 2.5 milion isk tough i can tank him infinitive long, i can not break its tanking, also there are no damage mods for missiles
exept a t1 ballistic control system. ( no target painters dont work on missiles)
I do get better results with my heavy missiles and two target painters.
and i can not believe that you cant kill a 2.5Mio Raven with 6 Torp. Launcher - i'm 100% shure that i can kill such a raven with my launchers.....
Cheers, Bit
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.30 14:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: FreeHansje
Am I to understand that missiles always hit? I attacked a pirate missilegun the other day, orbit 7500 meters and saw huge chunks of my ship disappear. I ran, repaired, got back and took orbit at 10000 meters; no missile hit me there...
FreeHansje
If they are in range they will hit. You were obviously out of range.
(range = speed x flight duration)
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Karthik
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Posted - 2005.09.30 15:12:00 -
[30]
Personal experience from last night.
I had just bought my first couple Caracals Tuesday, so after flying them home I configured them for my first level 2 agents:
INITIAL SETUP:
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3 Heavy Missile Launcher I's
2 Assault Missile Launcher I's
Y-8S Afterburner
Mediume Shield Booster I
Target Painter (of some type)
Web Stasifyer? 1
Inertial Stabilizer
Overdrive Injector
As for missiles, I loaded a bunch of kinetics, some EM's, and some leftover Thermals I had laying around.
A quick test flight with skills got me to 466 m/s. I planned to kite them, and if anything got in under 10km I would web and keep going.
Mission 1 = go kill an ore thief
He was in a frigate. I test fired one missile from each heavy launcher and got hits, but the damage was in the 20's and 30's.
I could easily keep him at 30km, so I used bloodclaws to take him down, which they did fairly quick.
Mission 2 = save the man's career
Pretty much the same thing, except there were more drones to kill, all frigate sized. It took a while, but I got him down. The target painter makes a huge difference for me, upwards of 30 damage per missile on the heavies.
At this point my buddy, who had been watching from a seat next to my PC, suggested all assault launchers. I had been mulling it over as well, especially since I had yet to see a target to use my heavies on. For something like 30k ISK, I switched the highslots to all Assaults using Sabertooths and Bloodclaws. An added bonus: more cargo cap.
Mission 3 = two stage Deadspace mission with about 30 drones, including two Rippers and something that shoots Bloodclaws as the "boss" drone.
Had I not switched to 5*Assaults I would have been there all night. There were five mixed groups of drones in the first level of the complex, and I kept the same plan as I had before. I rippled three Sabertooths to drop the shields, and the two Bloodclaws that followed either dropped the drone half into structure or killed it outright. The only exceptions to this were the Rippers and the "boss". The Rippers got me at the same time and were doing a fair chunk of damage before I got one dead and I could shield tank the other. The "boss" was tossing a Bloodclaw at me every 8 seconds or so, and those hits were also dropping the shield, but with only one target to deal with my salvos got the job done fast.
Conclusions:
------------
1. Guided Missile Precision is now on my "must get now" skill list.
2. Match target size to missile size.
3. Keep an open mind.
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