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![The1 The1](/images/people/img9.png)
The1
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Posted - 2003.07.31 21:20:00 -
[1]
I am aware of the plans to nerf BP copies. Does anyone know of a site that details exactly how the BP's will be nerfed? Numbers that can be made, ect.. Are big things like ship BP's and little things like ammo BP's going to be nerfed in the same way? Is this change going to be grandfathered in? We happen to have purchased almost every important ship BP (short of BShips) in the game, but they are mostly copies. Can a GM or DEV please explain to me how it is right to a corp like ours who spent well over 100 million isk on ship copies to do anything but grandfather this change in? This will not kill our corp, but it would be a HUGE setback to say the least. I mean come on, over 100million down the drain?? I just dont understand how I can buy something of the huge magnitude of a Maller BP copy for examlpe, thinking I have what I just purchased forever, only to find out that the rules are getting changed in mid game ...again. I am fine with the idea in theory, I just dont think corps like ours (I know there must be a lot more)should be made to suffer for decisions made prior to a change like this. If it's not going to be grandfathered in then how about some NPC corps offering to buy back all BP's purchased prior to the patch for a fair price? I know its all to be expected in this game it seems, and I am not the moaning type, but this is not some little weapos nerf. We are talking about a change that will effect several corps to the tune of billions of isk total. This is a change that needs to be well thought out in how it is implemented. Please, please Devs and GM's......think about how you handle this one with great care. This will effect 27 people in our corp alone and the money lost represents months of hard work on their part. We cant be the only corp in this situation. Thanks for your careful consideration.
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![Zorgan Zorgan](/images/people/img8.png)
Zorgan
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Posted - 2003.07.31 23:15:00 -
[2]
Its just tuff luck for all you ppl with copys...you should have saved your money and bought the originals. very bad business move on your part. putting limits on the copy's will help dry up the millions of ship copy's flooding the market.. yay! can't wait...haha sucks for you...:) Sigs suck |
![Klydor Klydor](/images/people/img4.png)
Klydor
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Posted - 2003.08.01 00:32:00 -
[3]
This is one nerf I've no problem with. It will hit us hard yes, but then copies should never had been unlimited in the first place.
My only worry is that 300 max for ships etc is fine but 300 for an ammo bp is too small.
If each different type of bp had a diff max then I would have no probs at all. Although then again I guess they could just sell you 100 ammo bp's for a cheap price since you can only make 300 each run.
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![Sarf Sarf](/images/people/img10.png)
Sarf
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Posted - 2003.08.01 00:48:00 -
[4]
I agree with The1 that this will be a devistating blow to our corp. we only have about 8 people in the corp and we have gotten to the point with BP copies that we now replace any equipment that is lost our selves.
This is going to set the game back to almost start for us, I belive that it will a good change, but it will be devistating to our corp.
To buy a cruiser at 9-14 mill repersents a week of effort for us, so we strived to become self suficient so we would not be at the mercy of the larger corps gouging players.
I belive that this change will drive away a significant portion of the user base. But i also have to admit that I can think of no better way to fix the depressed market because of the to many copies.
The closest idea I have seen to help alive this problem would be to take some portion of the copies and convert them to originals at random and then then convert the rest into 10 run bps.
I also think that there needs to be a way for the person who created the copie to re issue another licesec to renew the BP without spending the time to copy the BP again. we are talking a BP and licencing agrement they are not the same things. it takes a few min in Real life to copie a CD but it take a phone call to purchase some more liceses for your existing CD.
Please CPP take a step back and see if there is another way to fix this problem, driving customers away will not make a good game in the end.
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![The1 The1](/images/people/img7.png)
The1
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Posted - 2003.08.01 01:18:00 -
[5]
ZORGAN... Let me get this straight... I made a bad business decision in choosing to buy copies vs originals right? So I was supposed to ASSUME the copies were going to be nerfed?? I should have ASSUMED that a major thing like BP's were going to be changed in mid game?? Dude, if you ran a real life business like that you would be in the poor house before you could say EVE. I love it how the game market is SUPPOSED to mimic real life, yet things like this make that the furthest thing from the truth. Please do everyone here with an IQ over 75 a favor and dont post again. You know what they say...beter to keep quiet and have people think you are an idiot rather than speak and remove all doubt :)
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![The1 The1](/images/people/img5.png)
The1
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Posted - 2003.08.01 01:27:00 -
[6]
Along the lines of what was said earlier.... If we have gotten to the point where players are SUPPOSED TO EXPECT major rule changes in mid game, what the heck does that say about the game itself and how it is being implemented? I mean come on people! Our highest expectation is supposed to be to expect the worst? We are supposed to expect that things (very major things at that) are going to be changed as we go all the time? What kind of game is that?? Thnink about it guys! and by the way......isnt it a penalty enough that copies cant be researched? I mean I have to use many more minerals to make our ships vs a corp that has a highly researched original.......and before someone comes on here and says you can buy highly researched original copies (I am talking about high end BP's like crusiers, not ammo or frigs) I am calling BS on that already. Yea, people do sell them, but they are still rare at best.
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![Mission Mission](/images/people/img9.png)
Mission
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Posted - 2003.08.01 01:40:00 -
[7]
I hope to god this isn't true after spending 350mil on a BS bpc. If it is then you can stick this game........
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![Setec Setec](/images/people/img12.png)
Setec
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Posted - 2003.08.01 03:12:00 -
[8]
I think this is probably a stupid rumor. I haven't heard anything from CCP about it except that they plan to do something about copies at some point.
There are two reasonable things for them to do:
1. Limit the number of copies that can be made from any given original.
2. Limit the number of items that can be made from copies in blueprints from the next tech level--ones that aren't in the game yet, that nobody has copies for yet.
Limiting the number of items that can be made from a copy is just silly. It serves no real purpose except to make a lot of people angry. I really don't expect them to do that, although the unsubstantiated rumors are hurting the copy sale market and that's ****ing me off. :P ___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
![voodoo voodoo](/images/people/img7.png)
voodoo
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Posted - 2003.08.01 03:28:00 -
[9]
yeah i agree theres no way they can take a copy out of my hanger that i bought. And theres no way they could take 300 mil in copies from a corp who made a WISE decision and bought a copy of a bs instead of the actuall print.
I agree on doing away with copies all together, but whats already out is out, and cant be takin back.
Theres lots more items that will hit the market, many more bp's are coming for the next tech lvl's ect. They'll make there nerfing on them. But the current copies are grandfathered in.
Least thats my opinion on it.
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
![Toom Tabard Toom Tabard](/images/people/img7.png)
Toom Tabard
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Posted - 2003.08.01 03:55:00 -
[10]
The way I understood it from the beginning of the game was that copies were always supposed to have limited production runs. Of course, they never announced that to the general game population, so the change is kind of harsh now, but really, I can make a few million in half a day by myself, so it shouldn't be that devastating. I do agree with you that there probably should be some sort of limited grandfathering, or buyback, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't...changes to the game is the nature of online playing after all.
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![Jolo Jolo](/images/people/img3.png)
Jolo
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Posted - 2003.08.01 04:11:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jolo on 01/08/2003 04:11:55
Quote: I think this is probably a stupid rumor. I haven't heard anything from CCP about it except that they plan to do something about copies at some point.
There are two reasonable things for them to do:
1. Limit the number of copies that can be made from any given original.
2. Limit the number of items that can be made from copies in blueprints from the next tech level--ones that aren't in the game yet, that nobody has copies for yet.
Limiting the number of items that can be made from a copy is just silly. It serves no real purpose except to make a lot of people angry. I really don't expect them to do that, although the unsubstantiated rumors are hurting the copy sale market and that's ****ing me off. :P
Was this a joke then?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=22357
Seems it's in a upcoming patch.. Or did I read this wrong. Doesn't sound like a rumour, and it sound slike CCP is doing something ---------------------------------------
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![nono nono](/images/people/img14.png)
nono
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Posted - 2003.08.01 04:14:00 -
[12]
"" but whats already out is out, and cant be takin back. ""
Like ship stats, skills, weapon changes etc. etc?
Bp's were two copies limited until they opened the flood gates. Dumb.
And yea it all must be a rhumor like the MWD and AB's coming out of warp and all the other things kicking around the board. Take them all as just rhumor's until they actually happen I guess. ![Rolling Eyes](/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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![Jolo Jolo](/images/people/img7.png)
Jolo
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Posted - 2003.08.01 04:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jolo on 01/08/2003 04:20:34 I love that MWD out of warp thing. It was sick. Too bad it go bye bye. Lets make the Local Chat bug go Bye Bye too.
This BP Thing will do a few things, make people angry, but at the same time allow us to actually make some cash selling items! I can't remember the last time I bought an item on the market cause I own like copies of like every item. Make them limited, and the market will start to blossum again. ---------------------------------------
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![Lola Lola](/images/people/img14.png)
Lola
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Posted - 2003.08.01 04:31:00 -
[14]
Hey The1, does your name refer to how many paragraphs you use per post? ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
![Gluefire Gluefire](/images/people/img2.png)
Gluefire
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Posted - 2003.08.01 04:36:00 -
[15]
FYI:
1500 - Ammo and Freq cristalls 300 - Turrets, Missles, Drones, Modules, Frigates 15 - Cruisers 10 - Battleships
350 Mil for a BS Copy = 10 * BYOM + 35 Mil Not really that bad.
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![Ana Khouri Ana Khouri](/images/people/img6.png)
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.01 04:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ana Khouri on 01/08/2003 04:48:24 But only for a lvl2 BS, that is. You can get lvl1 BS for less money (well, most of them, that is).
Where did you got those numbers, Gluefire, btw?
Anyway, limiting the copies of a BP is NOT "stupid".
That thing happens in the real world too. For example, firms are selling software which can be used on 5 different PCs at one time - but not more. In theory the software could be used on any number of PCs, but cannot due to this limitation. It's pretty similar to the BP copies - that limitation is not technical, it's legal.
And it is NEEDED. The only two markets alive atm are the BS and BP copy market. And the latter will ruin the first in a few weeks too for sure, if nothing is done.
free speech not allowed here |
![Zorgan Zorgan](/images/people/img16.png)
Zorgan
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Posted - 2003.08.01 06:10:00 -
[17]
well...I don't know about everyone else, but my plan from the start was to buy the best cruiser and frig. BP and trade copys for the rest. most I will loose is a bunch of copy's that didn't cost anything but time to make. life changes...things change...think ahead. I knew I would be safe with a 70 million isk original. if you chose to buy one for 10 or 15 million and think they were as good as mine I'm sorry.. you will just have to buy another one for 5 million or whatever. I'm sure the price will be down with limits placed on them. Sigs suck |
![Mission Mission](/images/people/img6.png)
Mission
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Posted - 2003.08.01 08:25:00 -
[18]
For those people that think this idea is a good one, you must be one of the following:-
1. Your selffish and dont' care about people that have spent their entire Eve life saving for the BS BPc 2. Your Stupid. 3. You work for CCP 4. You don't like somebody who has a bpc and u wanna screw them over 5. You have an original BS BP
If CCP wants to do this nerf then the copies that are already made atm should be left as they are.... i.e. pre nerf bpcs
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![Mission Mission](/images/people/img1.png)
Mission
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Posted - 2003.08.01 09:03:00 -
[19]
Quote: FYI:
1500 - Ammo and Freq cristalls 300 - Turrets, Missles, Drones, Modules, Frigates 15 - Cruisers 10 - Battleships
350 Mil for a BS Copy = 10 * BYOM + 35 Mil Not really that bad.
assuming you can get 35m + byom 10 times thats a grand total of zero profit for those who've just bought a bpc. But your proablly not gunna get 35mil, maybe 25mil, thats -100mil pprofit + an infinite amount of work.
I can see 2 options :- 1. Have Pre Nerf BPCs 2. Make the Copying times X times longer
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![Alpha Centauri Alpha Centauri](/images/people/img3.png)
Alpha Centauri
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Posted - 2003.08.01 11:04:00 -
[20]
bad idea nerfing pre-patch ones, a LOT of people will leave, you can not mess with a gamers time and belief like this, this is not a minor nerf, this is EXTREME.
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![Barry Mcintosh Barry Mcintosh](/images/people/img10.png)
Barry Mcintosh
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Posted - 2003.08.01 11:31:00 -
[21]
Seems theres a lot of griping over something that shouldnt have been in the game in the first place. Just be done with it and remove copying ability from this point on and leave people with there bpc alone.
Quote: TOUCH NOT THE CAT BOUT A GLOVE
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![Klydor Klydor](/images/people/img7.png)
Klydor
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Posted - 2003.08.01 11:40:00 -
[22]
I disagree, bp copies are a good idea, they are just not implemented correctly yet.
Production companies will be able to make moeny via their originals. Other corps will have to settle for buying a cheap limited copy.
If you buy a copy and its limited make sure you don't pay a lot for it, make sure you factor in how much profit you will be able to make and buy the bp copy cheap enough to make that profit.
If someone is selling one at 350mil and you would only get 350mil back after selling the 10bs then don't buy it. Simple. Tell them you'll only pay 250mil.
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![Kalar Vrask Kalar Vrask](/images/people/img6.png)
Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.08.01 12:01:00 -
[23]
Let's not forget the people who are currently halfway through a partnership on a BS or similar print purchase. We've set an agreement up with Novatech, we're due a copy in 2 weeks, now we have no idea what we're getting for our money - 10 ships? Not good enough, and yes we (stupidly perhaps) invested a lot of our cash into this, I'm sure other people are in similar situations. I just hope we don't get shafted on this deal, the impact on us is significant.
Changes like this make people stop playing - what is the point in working your ass off for something for weeks if, when you eventually get it, it's degraded significantly with no adequate advance notice? Talk about wasting my time, I'll go waste it elsewhere I think.
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![BSOD BSOD](/images/people/img4.png)
BSOD
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Posted - 2003.08.01 13:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: BSOD on 01/08/2003 13:16:20
Quote: Let's not forget the people who are currently halfway through a partnership on a BS or similar print purchase. We've set an agreement up with Novatech, we're due a copy in 2 weeks, now we have no idea what we're getting for our money - 10 ships? Not good enough, and yes we (stupidly perhaps) invested a lot of our cash into this, I'm sure other people are in similar situations. I just hope we don't get shafted on this deal, the impact on us is significant.
Changes like this make people stop playing - what is the point in working your ass off for something for weeks if, when you eventually get it, it's degraded significantly with no adequate advance notice? Talk about wasting my time, I'll go waste it elsewhere I think.
No adequate advance notice?
This was mentioned in the dev blog over a month ago.
Anyone who continued with a BP partnership after that devblog that was not prepared to deal with the consequences of this change is stupid. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
![Wowbagger Wowbagger](/images/people/img10.png)
Wowbagger
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Posted - 2003.08.01 13:31:00 -
[25]
If you find yourself on the wrong end of a BS bpc deal I would suggest that you approach the main corp and ask them if they are prepared to honour their original commitment to 'unlimited' production from the bpc - even if it means providing you with number of copies over time.
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![Crownan Crownan](/images/people/img9.png)
Crownan
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Posted - 2003.08.01 13:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Crownan on 01/08/2003 13:42:02
1. You're a bunch of spoiled brats
2. If you spent less the 1/10th the time you spend crying and actually testing you would have found out, via the test server, that so far existing copies have an infinite production number.
Seriously, a bigger bunch of babies I have never seen in a game. BP COPY'S SHOULD HAVE JUST BEEN ELIMINATED. Not the current copies in hand, mind you. But the easy, PROPER fix should have been to just remove the COPY option from the Research labs.
There is no incentive to buy originals in the game unless you just want to sell copies at NO additional cost to you. You pop it in a lab slot and roll out the copies to market with NO cost. This is ridiculous. Even worse, SINGLE use cruiser copies can be made at the rate of one every EIGHT hours and rolled out in the trade channel in BESTOWER loads. Talk about killing a market. Only those that would never, ever, under any circumstances fit a mining beam would EVER buy a MANUFACTURED ship from the market.
Blueprints should be used for MANUFACTURING products. Not for decorating your research money tree.
CCP! EASY FIX FOR BP COPIES -> REMOVE THE COPY OPTION FROM THE RESEARCH MENU.
As a side note, if you are purchasing or intend to purchase one of these STUPID COPIES of a blueprint, you better do it NOW or backout of any deal you're in if it's very long term.
THIS IS YOUR DAMN FAIR WARNING.
Wipe yer nose.
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![Kaleb Kaleb](/images/people/img16.png)
Kaleb
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Posted - 2003.08.01 14:01:00 -
[27]
When we find out our 15k megacyte and 100+ million ISK is for a 10 ship copy of a blueprint, I'll be leaving Eve with most of my corporation. This is a pivotal point in the history of Eve and should be handled with respect towards concerned players.
I have faith they'll grandfather old copies, and release new blueprints for better quality ships.
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![Kalar Vrask Kalar Vrask](/images/people/img7.png)
Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.08.01 15:19:00 -
[28]
Mentioning a change like this in Devblog is hardly official notice. They've mentioned Titan's, cloaking, Jove space, level 5 frigates blah blah, have we seen any of that yet? No. Official notice in my eyes posting it on the 'News' that you see when you log in PRIOR to implementation.
If CCP hold to their usual style, we'll be lucky if it's even mentioned in the patch notes when it arrives.
Our corp holds a vast number of original prints, close to a hundred, we've spent significant amounts of money on them. However, a BS original is not something we could do on our own within a reasonable time frame, and under the game mechanics at the moment, a copy partnership is a viable option. Now, it's looking pretty certain our copy is significantly devalued when we receive it (2 weeks) due to belated 'balancing'. I don't care what you say, but anyone in this situation is going to express their discontent.
Hopefully, the corporation in question will look after us, but they could turn round and say 'Here's one copy, as agreed'.
And hands up any corps who DON'T own a blueprint copy? You're probably happy though because your AM ammo/MWD prints will be on the market now at a reduced cost.
Mine won't, I'm not.
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![Mission Mission](/images/people/img14.png)
Mission
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Posted - 2003.08.01 15:21:00 -
[29]
Quote: I disagree, bp copies are a good idea, they are just not implemented correctly yet.
Production companies will be able to make moeny via their originals. Other corps will have to settle for buying a cheap limited copy.
If you buy a copy and its limited make sure you don't pay a lot for it, make sure you factor in how much profit you will be able to make and buy the bp copy cheap enough to make that profit.
If someone is selling one at 350mil and you would only get 350mil back after selling the 10bs then don't buy it. Simple. Tell them you'll only pay 250mil.
Klydor.. obviously nobody is going to sell/buy one for 350mil if they have 10charges. The point is, WHAT about the BS BPCs that are already in the game.
I don't think anyone cares about how/if copying works in the future.
The whole of my entire eve cash which i have saved up from day one has been invested into my BS-BPC which i bought just a week or so ago.
I will definately quit all my accounts and play SWG full time if it is nerfed.
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![Ana Khouri Ana Khouri](/images/people/img16.png)
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.01 15:30:00 -
[30]
Everyone who is whining changes are bad etc - a MMORPG is constantly changing - you will find no other situation in SWG.
And please take a look at the market - the only market booming is the one for BP copies, all others are DEAD (exept BS, but it won't last long).
Think about why that is so.
free speech not allowed here |
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