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Dou Nought
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2013.05.04 21:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Preface: my first language is german, so please be don't be too harsh for any gramar mistakes I made ... the original (german) post is https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=232108&find=unread
I really tried to get infromation about the upcomming changes for scanning, but it seems as if I was too stupid for that task - and no, I didn't use any kind of information provided by this new video site, I use Firefox with activated NoScript extension, and invoking this side is a pure nightmare for any security aware user.
And by the way: citation from pure text is by far easier than from any kind of video!
The topic itsself:
I aquired the informations from the DEV-Blog http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-shakeup-blog/ , capter "Ore Mining"
Quote:Quote:
"... We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance. ..."
First of all, "hidden belts" will be scanned down after the launch of Odyssey much more easy, both from miners and gankers sorry their hunters ... OK. Miners have to take (more) care .... But nobody described how, and I think no one knows a good counter strategy against this new and (dependence independent scanning of) anomalies for Ice and Ore, where the potential targets do not even know that they are becomming pray for their enemies (maybe not so true in 0.0 where they could watch local for any non-blue in their system).
But now let's face the real problem:
What about the poor guys which love to scan down missions and invade them? Will the actual existing mission areas be locatable that easy? I really didn't find any information about this topic, but if not, then this is really a blantant injustice for this kind of game play! CCP has to change the game mechanics in that way that all mission areas are to be scannable with the on-board scanner! Or why do these players have to spend their valuable time for scanning down the mission areas (and maybe even train for these skills)? You see what I mean?
And this kind of players do not only want to catch mission runners in their mission ares, they also want to catch explorers doing magneto sites, radar sites, and ladar sites. Why do they have to face more effort? Which logic lays behind this design decision? That is complete unfair!
The only fair and inevitalbe solution for this imballance is: remove all signatures from EVE, and change anything to scannable anomalies whitch can be scanned down with the on-board scanner!
PS: I really demand a plausible clarification from CCP (!) why they changed only the gravimetric signatures before this thread is closed for "not enough content" / ranting / trolling / whatever, as You will find only ships which are not really capable of defending against non-NPC aggression in these sites now (at least at the moment), as these are: Mining Barges, Exhumers, und Industrial Command Ships.
For clarification purposes: "plausible" is definitely not: "... because an almighty and/or all-knowing Product Manager decided this way".
PPS: please no "adapt or die" posts, I can imaginate these by myself. And no, I won't quit EVE, and nobody can have my stuff. And finally: yes, this is a new ALT (better: twin character, twink), but the skill plan for this char is about 500 days in EVEmon quit now, so I don't see this char as forum ALT myself ... |
Danni stark
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 21:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
considering asteroid belts have had to be scanned down (as far as i'm aware) it never made sense to have to scan down grav sites.
considering there will be up to 7 mining anoms it's still somewhat of a lucky guess as to if a ganker will warp to the right one, if he doesn't then he's already lost his chance of ganking a miner.
it's really not that big of a deal.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Dou Nought
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 21:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
@Danni stark: might be correct for the miner ganker, but this was not my topic really - what about the other "bad" guys? They will still have the effort! |
Danni stark
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 22:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dou Nought wrote:@Danni stark: might be correct for the miner ganker, but this was not my topic really - what about the other "bad" guys? They will still have the effort!
and?
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Dou Nought
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 22:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Dou Nought wrote:@Danni stark: might be correct for the miner ganker, but this was not my topic really - what about the other "bad" guys? They will still have the effort! and?
Sorry, I prefer to ignore any comment which is far away from any kind of logical argumentation. |
Danni stark
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 22:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dou Nought wrote:Danni stark wrote:Dou Nought wrote:@Danni stark: might be correct for the miner ganker, but this was not my topic really - what about the other "bad" guys? They will still have the effort! and? Sorry, I prefer to ignore any comment which is far away from any kind of logical argumentation.
no, you just didn't really make a point.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Rochnarl
Phoenix Co.
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 22:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
(AFAIK) Only the grav (mining) sites are being changed in this way. All the other sites will still need to be probed in order to locate.
You mention mission sites, but I'm thinking that's a translation issue. If not, I haven't seen anything to suggest that mission sites will be made easier for another party to locate. |
TEABO BAGGINS
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 22:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
well that's pretty awesome because i hated finding those grav sites anyway |
Dou Nought
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 22:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rochnarl wrote:*Edit*
Derp...
Yes. You are completely right (and that is no translation problem), I was searching for _ANY_ information concerning non-mining sites (i.e. neither gravi nor ice), and could not find anything!
From my point of view: why are the miner hunters prefered by CCP in this extraordinary way? Why is a explorer doing a lucky mission for serveral hundert million ISKs within a view minutes still "under the protection of scanning" while others are pray?
That's the imballance for me, and CCP really has to change this! |
Dou Nought
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 23:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
TEABO BAGGINS wrote:well that's pretty awesome because i hated finding those grav sites anyway
That''s OK for me, but did You ever try to "find" some other pray than mining ships - e.g. such ones which could fire back in any way (e.g. disturbing mission runners in any way)? Or did You only try to gank mining ships for the "beauty of the statistics" of your killboard? |
Dare Knight
Cornerian Logistics
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 23:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think I understand what you're getting at. Let me make sure I am clear on what you're saying.
You're saying that all anomalies were scannable before and required effort to obtain. Now gravimetric sites are nolonger scannable, making it easier for miners to find rarer ore (imagine the mad rush after DT). On the flip side of that coin, gankers can also find these sites just as easily. However, other sites still need to be scanned down. This means that someone running, say, a Radar site, still has that extra layer of protection by needing to be scanned down.
While in theory this is correct, and you're right to be upset about that, here's something to consider. With full trained skills and even reasonably basic intel, it takes roughly 7-10 seconds to pinpoint your location with combat probes.
So while in theory, this extra level of safety is exactly that, an extra level of safety, it's a very very thin layer of security that doesn't necessarily make more than, say, 15 seconds of safety for you. If someone really wants to find you, they'll know what they need to know to find you, and you won't be able to stop them except quit.
It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. |
casini
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 23:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dare Knight wrote:I think I understand what you're getting at. Let me make sure I am clear on what you're saying.
You're saying that all anomalies were scannable before and required effort to obtain. Now gravimetric sites are nolonger scannable, making it easier for miners to find rarer ore (imagine the mad rush after DT). On the flip side of that coin, gankers can also find these sites just as easily. However, other sites still need to be scanned down. This means that someone running, say, a Radar site, still has that extra layer of protection by needing to be scanned down.
While in theory this is correct, and you're right to be upset about that, here's something to consider. With full trained skills and even reasonably basic intel, it takes roughly 7-10 seconds to pinpoint your location with combat probes.
So while in theory, this extra level of safety is exactly that, an extra level of safety, it's a very very thin layer of security that doesn't necessarily make more than, say, 15 seconds of safety for you. If someone really wants to find you, they'll know what they need to know to find you, and you won't be able to stop them except quit.
no skill player is able to scan you down in 7-10 seconds.....even max skilled and fitted
jump in...drop probes(takes a bit) set you probes, hit scan for the first time then you have to pinpoint so unless your in a titan 7-10 sec is not going to happen
still i dont like it they make grav sites now findable with just the system scanner, ill almost start asking to reimburse my scanning skills...with the new save logoff its inpossible to scan down people that log off in space(yes i popped people within the 1 minute timer) there is less and less skills needed to find anything in this game soon without just hitting the system scanner.
dont make EVE into a WoW spacegame please |
Danni stark
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dou Nought wrote:From my point of view: why are the miner hunters prefered by CCP in this extraordinary way?
you mean aside from the fact that they just made mining worth more isk/hour and the new level of risk is proportionate to the new reward?
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Metal Starz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 08:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Op, your bitter tears taste great keep them coming. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
754
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 08:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Because CCP loves explosions and everybody hates miners so that's why.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
4888
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 08:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't really care all that much, but this change does seem to hit wormhole dwellers rather unfairly. |
Naburi NasNaburi
War Trident
Trifectas Syndicate
176
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 11:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dou Nought wrote:...snip...
Ich glaube wir zwei sollten uns mal ingame unterhalten :)
Vielleicht kann ich Dir ja ein paar Punkte zu Herzen f++hren.
Invited him to a naughty convo.. incase anyone was wondering :P
And I dont see changes only coming up for miners, exploration changes in general are coming up..you should always look at both sides of a medal not just the one you think is prettiest :P |
Nessa Aldeen
First Among Equals
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 12:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think I understand what he means. Correct me if I'm wrong OP.
Player A uses a lot of effort finding the anomalies. Player B drops combat probes, goes to site and either tries to take control of the site or ganks Player A.
Player B's job was a lot faster and more efficient. Is that what you're trying to say? If so, yes I would agree with you on how easy it is to scan down these days as opposed to the old scanning methodology. It's way easier to scan you down than go to all that trouble. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14044
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 13:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dou Nought wrote:What about the poor guys which love to scan down missions and invade them? Will the actual existing mission areas be locatable that easy? No.
Quote:if not, this is really a blantant injustice for this kind of game play! CCP has to change the game mechanics in that way that all mission areas are to be scannable with the on-board scanner! Or why do these players have to spend their valuable time for scanning down the mission areas (and maybe even train for these skills)? Do You see what I mean? No. How is it imbalanced that they have to probe for ships, same as always?
Quote:And this kind of players do not only want to catch mission runners in their mission ares, they also want to catch explorers doing magneto sites, radar sites, and ladar sites. Why do they have to face more effort? They don't.
Gravimetrics are being removed because you're supposed to go after those belts in your mining ship GÇö the ship that has no room for probing equipment.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
157
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 14:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Preface: my first language is dumbass so don't take what I say too seriously.
Want the good rocks? Learn to fight.
Want to afk the crappy rocks? Stay in a crappy place in a normal belt making crappy money. We won't care your playstyle is punishment enough.
Mission runners need that lil extra window because they are shooting rats or in the future playing mini-games...not letting strippers run while watching the new stupid show that's popular and I hate hearing about a thousand times. "Have you seen Breaking Bad???"....no muthafuka play the damn game and shut up you baked noodle half-wit. |
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