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The Naglfar: New Lease on Life?

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Katsumoto Moliko Salient Logistics Inc. Insidious Associates 6	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:00:00 - [1] - Quote Along with the pretty stinkin' awesome Gnosis that everyone got in their little present boxes today, the Naglfar also got an extensive tweak to its weapon setup, and its high slots in general. I am seeing no threads about the changes to the Naglfar, except ones that are pre-patch. So I am going to roll the dice and ask if the Naglfar is "fixed" now and can compete with the other dreadnoughts. I do know that it suffered from awkward weapon splitting issues before and became very unpopular as a result, but being a ship that was vertical before being vertical was cool, and now that the launchers are gone and its a projectile only platform, I am asking dread pilots if it would be (in their opinion) worth training for in the future. I am already drooling to get into my first Tornado, and the idea of being able to sit from extreme range while I ruin everyone's day with shells the size of frigates is just too cool to pass up. Thank you in advance for your replies.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 132	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:21:00 - [2] - Quote Expect to see a LOT of them, it went from **** to.. really? that good? time to get one.
Zarnak Wulf In Exile. Imperial Outlaws. 1196	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:28:00 - [3] - Quote Is it better? Yes. You can get the same DPS albeit more consistently (lol citadel Torps). You also have free slots in the lows that you can devote to cap stability or whatever you may fancy. It's an ad hoc change as I believe that the art dept will add a third turret and all the caps will get a much more extensive balance pass. I also personally wish they had just fixed the citadel missile weapons as I feel a bit more of the Minmatar soul has been offered up. On a personal note I now have a lot of useless citadel missile skills.
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 179	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:36:00 - [4] - Quote It's a band-aid type fix and definitely made the Nag much more useable, but they should honestly fix citadel torps, you know something is wrong when capitals are speed tanking your missiles.
Chris Winter Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T. 60	Posted - 2013.05.07 05:02:00 - [5] - Quote I like how in the same change where they acknowledged that cap missiles were terrible by removing them from the Naglfar... They also removed the turret from the Phoenix.
Josilin du Guesclin University of Caille Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2013.05.07 06:47:00 - [6] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: Is it better? Yes. You can get the same DPS albeit more consistently (lol citadel Torps). You also have free slots in the lows that you can devote to cap stability or whatever you may fancy. It's an ad hoc change as I believe that the art dept will add a third turret and all the caps will get a much more extensive balance pass. I also personally wish they had just fixed the citadel missile weapons as I feel a bit more of the Minmatar soul has been offered up. On a personal note I now have a lot of useless citadel missile skills. Buy a Phoenix. :p
Zarnak Wulf In Exile. Imperial Outlaws. 1198	Posted - 2013.05.07 07:32:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah... that would be like throwing good money after bad. No thanks.
Hakaimono Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly 136	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:09:00 - [8] - Quote Oh good, I may see more than just Revs and Moroses (lol sp?)
Gnadolin Space Pioneers Black Core Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:34:00 - [9] - Quote New Naglfar is awesome. ~2k more dps makes it really competive with the other Dreads. Also ~100k Alpha with 3500mm Cannos makes a new champion of blapping Dreads. Also the use of only two Turrets with the damage of three reduces the ammunition need and allows to shoot more often with shiny faction bullets.
Kasutra Tailor Company Hashashin Cartel 191	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:50:00 - [10] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: It's an ad hoc change as I believe that the art dept will add a third turret and all the caps will get a much more extensive balance pass. Smells like this to me. An "oh crap, can't we hack it now so that it's working before 2014?" fix. Not that I think that's a terrible idea.

Razor Blue Fistful of Finns Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 15	Posted - 2013.05.07 16:36:00 - [11] - Quote Naglfar never was bad. Selectable dmg types, second best dps and capless weapons. Back then, when i got my missile skills up, i upgraded my Moros into Naglfar. Personally im going to miss those Torps. This change makes races more homogenous.
Angelique Duchemin Serenity Prime Kraken. 529	Posted - 2013.05.07 17:32:00 - [12] - Quote It had the best DPS of any Dread but as the price of requiring twice as many weapon skills. There are only 4 dreads. They are all in the same category and as such there can only ever be one "best" dread. We miss you Saede.
TomyLobo U2EZ 111	Posted - 2013.05.07 22:31:00 - [13] - Quote Dps just went up by almost 50% of what it used to be. Tank is still somewhat lacking though but meh.
Tesoni Daven BENEVOLENC3 Wormhole Kaleidoscope Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.05.07 22:44:00 - [14] - Quote It's almost competative with a moros now for WH PvE. Probably on par or better due to capless weapons for WH PvP.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 252	Posted - 2013.05.07 23:41:00 - [15] - Quote Tesoni Daven wrote: It's almost competative with a moros now for WH PvE. Probably on par or better due to capless weapons for WH PvP. Doesn't slot into the common WH PVP fleet compositions as nicely as the moros tho.
Mirel Dystoph Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 48	Posted - 2013.05.07 23:48:00 - [16] - Quote Angelique Duchemin wrote: It had the best DPS of any Dread but as the price of requiring twice as many weapon skills. No it hadn't. "Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á
Capt Retard Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:10:00 - [17] - Quote Angelique Duchemin wrote: It had the best DPS of any Dread but as the price of requiring twice as many weapon skills. There are only 4 dreads. They are all in the same category and as such there can only ever be one "best" dread. Spoken like a true clueless idiot! Voila! 3x damage mods, Siege II - all 5s. Rev: no reloads, fast ammo change, low space requirements for ammo - 8k dps with MFreq Moros: highest damage - 11k dps with AM Pheonix: capless weapons - pure damage type, superb range, kinetic bonus - 8k/6.5k scourge/other torps Nag: capless weapons - near pure damage type, lowest range. - 8k various mixes The new Nag will likely put out 11-12k dps with less pure damage type selection (the torps helped in that respect) and range wize, will be worse dps application. Falloff sucks. Phoenix isnt that bad with its amazing range, but its low low damage when not using Kinetic, and it cant hit anything moving. The Nag used to be atrocious - no benefit from 'Uber Training time' and meh damage application on moving targets. With Phoenix. if theres a resist hole in a POS then it can only win if its HUGE and either EM or Explosive, or farther than 30k. Shooting across POSes at mods at range is really useful. Im going with the new Nag being 2nd after Moros, a very close 2nd. Rev next (although no reloads helps applied DPS), then Phoenix last, but not necessarily always last, and range is good. Nag and Arty is Juicy - 120k volley.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 138	Posted - 2013.05.09 04:10:00 - [18] - Quote Angelique Duchemin wrote: It had the best DPS of any Dread but as the price of requiring twice as many weapon skills. where was this dps, in eft? Cap missiles look nice in eft, in the game however...... Also it wasn't the cost of skills. Nag only had 2 more skills to learn over a phoenix pilot, cap gun skills. Your average phoenix pilot chugs right along with a nag pilot up to the cap guns. Mainly because the universally accepted fleet bs for caldari has been rokh for quite sometime. New patch we will see with cruise changes but till now fleet bs has usually meant 425 II rail rokh. They jsut plopped down several hundred mil cap skills, some more isk for gun skills and cap missile is mild in comparison. It also has to do partly with the fact you inheret niddy as the matching carrier. We all know niddy has issues...no need to derail this thread over it lol.
Razor Blue Fistful of Finns Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 16	Posted - 2013.05.09 12:08:00 - [19] - Quote My thoughts: -Buff citadel missiles -Bring back the 5-high slot, split weapons -Add 1 turret slot. (3 turret, 2 launcher layout) -Swap the Capital Projectile RoF bonus to Missile RoF bonus -Increase the bonuses to 7,5% So there... Nag could work as 3turret, armor tank tracking dread or split weapon, shield tanked capital basher.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 9219	Posted - 2013.05.09 12:50:00 - [20] - Quote Dato Koppla wrote: It's a band-aid type fix and definitely made the Nag much more useable, but they should honestly fix citadel torps, you know something is wrong when capitals are speed tanking your missiles. Battleships can speedtank torps, so at least it's consistent I suppose. 1 Kings 12:11

Rab See Fool Mental Junket 12	Posted - 2013.05.13 21:40:00 - [21] - Quote Capt ** wrote: 3x damage mods, Siege II - all 5s. Rev: no reloads, fast ammo change, low space requirements for ammo - 8k dps with MFreq Moros: highest damage - 11k dps with AM Pheonix: capless weapons - pure damage type, superb range, kinetic bonus - 8k/6.5k scourge/other torps Nag: capless weapons - near pure damage type, lowest range. - 8k various mixes The new Nag will likely put out 11-12k dps with less pure damage type selection (the torps helped in that respect) and range wize, will be worse dps application. Falloff sucks. .... Just tested Nag on Sisi - more like 10k dps with your setup. The shield tank is a bit weak, but its better than before for sure. And yes, Pheonix suffers badly on moving targets - but is great when range is needed.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1842	Posted - 2013.05.13 22:39:00 - [22] - Quote how are you getting 11k on a moros? :S you only fitting 2 guns or something? get close to 16k if youre fitting it right. nag is now in the 'not bad' category of dreads. moros still does everything better, by a fair bit.
Capt Retard Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2013.05.14 09:29:00 - [23] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: how are you getting 11k on a moros? :S you only fitting 2 guns or something? get close to 16k if youre fitting it right. nag is now in the 'not bad' category of dreads. moros still does everything better, by a fair bit. As stated - all dreads fitted with 3x damage mods - Moros is 3x Mags, 3x Ion Siege. XL Amatter - All Vs. No pimp on any - keeps them 'standard'. Antimatter, Multifreq, Scourge and EMP Moros 11092 dps Rev 8067 Phoenix 8214 (scourge) Nag 10+k (needs pyfa/EFT update for exact). Again, not taking into account range etc. If you want to pimp them then please do - these are the base that you work from. Of course, adding faction and implants makes numbers higher. Of course a 5% implant will make moros better as it has a higher 'standard'. I dont actually think the moros is by much ..
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 721	Posted - 2013.05.14 10:10:00 - [24] - Quote Capt ** wrote: As stated - all dreads fitted with 3x damage mods - Moros is 3x Mags, 3x Ion Siege. XL Amatter - All Vs. No pimp on any - keeps them 'standard'. Antimatter, Multifreq, Scourge and EMP Moros 11092 dps Rev 8067 Phoenix 8214 (scourge) Nag 10+k (needs pyfa/EFT update for exact). Using this standard of 3x T2 damage mods, T1 guns and ammo gives the Naglfar 9139 DPS.
Capt Retard Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2013.05.14 11:24:00 - [25] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Capt ** wrote: As stated - all dreads fitted with 3x damage mods - Moros is 3x Mags, 3x Ion Siege. XL Amatter - All Vs. No pimp on any - keeps them 'standard'. Antimatter, Multifreq, Scourge and EMP Moros 11092 dps Rev 8067 Phoenix 8214 (scourge) Nag 10+k (needs pyfa/EFT update for exact). Using this standard of 3x T2 damage mods, T1 guns and ammo gives the Naglfar 9139 DPS. Where did you get this from? Cant see changes to EFT or Pyfa for retribution 1.2? Or do you have all Vs in game. I was just extrapolating from my '4's ingame. But somewhat disappointing if this is the case - more w.r.t Moros being so far ahead when its guns lie in a similar space to the nags.
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 721	Posted - 2013.05.14 12:07:00 - [26] - Quote Capt ** wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Capt ** wrote: As stated - all dreads fitted with 3x damage mods - Moros is 3x Mags, 3x Ion Siege. XL Amatter - All Vs. No pimp on any - keeps them 'standard'. Antimatter, Multifreq, Scourge and EMP Moros 11092 dps Rev 8067 Phoenix 8214 (scourge) Nag 10+k (needs pyfa/EFT update for exact). Using this standard of 3x T2 damage mods, T1 guns and ammo gives the Naglfar 9139 DPS. Where did you get this from? Cant see changes to EFT or Pyfa for retribution 1.2? Or do you have all Vs in game. I was just extrapolating from my '4's ingame. But somewhat disappointing if this is the case - more w.r.t Moros being so far ahead when its guns lie in a similar space to the nags. There are updated EFT files on Failheap. But since the Naglfar is gaining a 50% damage bonus, multiplying its current projectile DPS of 6093 by 1.5 is pretty easy too. That's a skills-at-V number, but your numbers for the other dreads are also skills-at-V. Moros uses cap and doesn't have any ability to select damage types. It's the Revelation that I feel sorry for, really, because some people actually fly it, unlike the Phoenix.
Goosius Tal RONA Corporation RONA Directorate 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 01:27:00 - [27] - Quote I duno if it is just me but I think it is a bit of a shame that the Naglfar only has two guns now. Sure they boosted them with the bonuses but the Naglfar was a lot more bad ass when it had guns and missles combined. It looked and sounded more destructive before. They could have boosted it a bit by changing some other characteristics and still retained the cool feel of flying something that bombarded its targets with cannon and torps.


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