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Sorry CCP: I have to spam your database some more. [InstaBMs]

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Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 09:50:00 - [1] I just bought 6000 BMs and started loading them into my main. After which they will be copied to my other 9 characters. Thats 54,000 new BMs for you guys. But Im also not done yet, Im still seeking reliable bookmark vendors for much of 0.0 post cold-war space. I wish I didnt have to do this but by the end of the month I will likely have added another quarter of a million bookmarks to your database. I Absolutely need to do this because of two things. 1) Travel in Empire without them is too time consuming for customers with a life and responsability. 2) Most importantly travel in 0.0 (and often lowsec) is DEATH without them. I really wish you guys would save me all this trouble and all the trouble to you as well. CCP, its time to roll out a bookmark solution. At least that part of the database pressure will be gone. Im a developer so I can imagine the heavy weight that this is placing on the database, clients and servers. I propose a phased solution. Phase 1 - EMERGENCY FIX: - All bookmarks within 100 km of stations and gates will be deleted. - Players will now be able to warp to within 1.5km of any station or gate in eve as well as any bookmark outside of the station or gate range. This will simply replace bookmarks for the time being. Note that this will change pretty much nothing. The only people without BMs are the very new or the very clueless. Those people learn fast that they need BMs and they buy them off the market quite readily. Furthermore, combat in Eve almost always takes place on gate EXIT, not entry. - Backstory: Navigational computers improved throughout galaxy! Phase 2 - Small Content patch - Warp to distance is backed off to 11km and 2 new skills and one new module are introduced to compensate. Some people will complain but they only need to train 6 days to resolve it so forget them. - Warp Precision Skill : Training time Multiplier 1x : Required Skill Navigation 1, Warp Drive Operation 1 : Effect Reduces the closest distance that one can warp to a gate or station by 1km per level - Advanced Warp Precision Skill - Requires warp precision 5, Navigation 4 and Warp Drive operation 4 - Further reduces closest warp distance by 1km per level. - Warp Navigation Computer - Midslot item, medium CPU, minimal power consumption. Increases effect of warp precision skill by 2.5% per level allowing a minimum warp in distance of 1km to target. - Backstory, Recent changes in navigation caused the number of accidental collisions with gates and stations to rise, increasing costs of repair. Stations and gates have instituted precision disruptors that will prevent unqualified pilots from warping too close for their own safety. Qualification seminars and skills are avialable as well as navi computers. Phase 3: Increasing Options for Blockading - Modification of warp bubbles so they pull a player OUT of warp, not merely prevent them from getting into warp. - Increasing effective range of deployed warp bubbles. Small: 50km, Medium 100km, Large 150km. - Introduction of a new module called a Warp Interdiction Computer. This module would allow the operator to set warp disruption based upon standing and would have an effective scramble strength equal to the number of modules installed times 2. The module is high slot only and can ONLY be deployed on a logistics cruiser. The modules could come in different sizes from 20 km (smaller is pointless) to 50km - Introduction of appropriate skills for Warp Interdiction to increase range, reduce CPU and power consumption, increase scramble strength and even use them in the first place. - Backstory: Innovation by corps of course. =) Conclusion Guys, this insta thing is getting out of hand. If I have a quarter of a million of them and you have 70k accounts ... god! Time to kill it now but not kill the game at the same time. These changes are long overdue and the phased rollout would be conducive to removing instas while keeping customers --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 09:51:00 - [2] .. reserved for later .. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.11 09:59:00 - [3] Making it skill based would IMO be useless. Just another skill you have to train, and another timesink for new players. -- Proud member of the [23].
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:01:00 - [4] Let's just make this short - HEEEEEEELLLLLLLL NO. Even WITH skills, the new insta system should NOT let you land on top of a gate, not if you have 20 appropriate skills to lvl5 and all your mid, low and high slots fitted with mods. If we let people land on gates, we may as well remove gates. ________
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:02:00 - [5] Edited by: Derisor on 11/10/2005 10:05:42 Edited by: Derisor on 11/10/2005 10:05:26 Edited by: Derisor on 11/10/2005 10:05:07 Originally by: Dark Shikari Making it skill based would IMO be useless. Just another skill you have to train, and another timesink for new players. shrug it does add content and would mean that not all newbies would be able to warp so close so it would be a bonus for vetrans. That was the general idea. For example, a vetran with Advanced Warp Precision 5 would be able to warp within 1km of a gate without having to consume a mid slot with a warp navigation computer. Others would have to make that decision. thanks nero --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
hired goon	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:03:00 - [6] CCP are already looking into this as a matter of priority.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Derisor teh programmer [Color=blue]Advanced Warp Precision 5[/color] Advanced Warp Precision 5 ________
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Nero Scuro Let's just make this short - HEEEEEEELLLLLLLL NO. Even WITH skills, the new insta system should NOT let you land on top of a gate, not if you have 20 appropriate skills to lvl5 and all your mid, low and high slots fitted with mods. If we let people land on gates, we may as well remove gates. Cant remove gates Nero, the gates are what separate processes in eve from each other and balance the load. But what is your objection to letting people land on gates? After all if you really want to you can stop them from doing so in phase 3. Just deploy a bubble or have a friend with a logistics cruiser. You eliminate tedium but still leave open the ability to intercept folks. I dont see that there is an issue but maybe I missed something. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Derisor Originally by: Nero Scuro Let's just make this short - HEEEEEEELLLLLLLL NO. Even WITH skills, the new insta system should NOT let you land on top of a gate, not if you have 20 appropriate skills to lvl5 and all your mid, low and high slots fitted with mods. If we let people land on gates, we may as well remove gates. Cant remove gates Nero, the gates are what separate processes in eve from each other and balance the load. But what is your objection to letting people land on gates? After all if you really want to you can stop them from doing so in phase 3. Just deploy a bubble or have a friend with a logistics cruiser. You eliminate tedium but still leave open the ability to intercept folks. I dont see that there is an issue but maybe I missed something. Yes, you miss something. Warp bubbles require you be camping a gate beforehand to catch the target. It doesn't help you if you're chasing the target down. With instas, a BS moves as quickly as an inty, which shouldn't happen. Basically, your ideas promote gatecamping over actually hunting your target down. Besides, there's already a dev blog on this. It was possibly the greatest dev-blog ever. ________
Maggot	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Maggot on 11/10/2005 10:11:31 Aye something like this must be done, but never with complete accuracy, and here is a paper to illustrate: Equiprobability and Instajumps Scrap the skill idea though - just make it module based, maybe allow stacking of modules for increased accuracy. I would go for high slot rather than mid slot - or maybe have both but with different bonuses.
Bunny Wunny	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:11:00 - [11] this could work, but I'd like to see the distance increase depending on ship size. so because a Battleships warp bubble is bigger than a ceptors it would collapse further away, not TOO far away, just a bit more.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Nero Scuro Yes, you miss something. Warp bubbles require you be camping a gate beforehand to catch the target. Originally by: Nero Scuro True .. but a buddy with a Warp Interdiction Computer on his logistics cruiser could move just as fast as the bad guy and try and get in front of him and yank him out of war early. Originally by: Nero Scuro It doesn't help you if you're chasing the target down. With instas, a BS moves as quickly as an inty, which shouldn't happen. Not in sublight where speed really matters. But actually as a matter of physics, a ship doesnt really move in normal space when warping. Besides, I dont see what the problem is. Its already this way in that almost every player who manages the BS level surely has instas for where he is. You are arguing against something that is already here. My intention is to reduce the tedium and server load and instead of having tedium to have more abilities to interdict someone warping. YOu are also forgetting the suggested change to bubbles. You could now make a spot right in between two gates in space and set up a large bubble. Anyone warping from one gate to the next in a direct line would be rudely yanked out of warp. This would put in possibilites for all kinds of tactical situations and invent new kinds of camping. =) Originally by: Nero Scuro Basically, your ideas promote gatecamping over actually hunting your target down. Besides, there's already a dev blog on this. It was possibly the greatest dev-blog ever. There have been comments and blogs for ages but nothing has been done. Ironically and proudly for me he was referring to a thread of mine in the ideas forum when he said he almost responded to one. That thread had similar if a bit rogher proposals. This one is actually doable Remove Tedium + Give more ways to intercept people = richer PVP --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Bunny Wunny this could work, but I'd like to see the distance increase depending on ship size. so because a Battleships warp bubble is bigger than a ceptors it would collapse further away, not TOO far away, just a bit more. As a small ship flyer I wouldnt mind but the BS drivers might get a little flamy on you. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Avon	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:20:00 - [14] I'm still pretty sure the answer is a low slot module which allows you to warp a bit closer to the gate. The more you fit, the closer you get. Then players can balance between warp-in range, cargo, wcs, nanofibres, whatever else; they key is compromise. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Magnum III	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:20:00 - [15] Gee, I got about 6 insta's I use at any one time for getting passed some pirates. I figured CCP wanted us not to be able to come close to a gate or station out of warp so we would be able to get into fights/PvP that way. And insta's to get close to a gate to warp out quick are just something they are allowing for now. If you want to go through the trouble of getting every possible insta in the game and actually try and find them all each time to use them, that is your choice. But for me it is easier not to ever do what madness you are going through. And we are supposed to take a while to travel or the economy would get messed up, They are not going to allow everyone to travel fast from one sector to another and that is that You want to go crazy using 300,000 instas though? And are you sure your not spend a whole lot of time in this game, it seems you a quite obsessed with it for one thing. This game is to relax and have fun, not go nuts figuring out every way to beat it. If you only have 1 hour to play a day then don't do something like trading. But you say you got a life and don't want to spend extra time traveling and such, but somehow I bet you play 6 hours a day. Great post though
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Maggot Edited by: Maggot on 11/10/2005 10:11:31 Aye something like this must be done, but never with complete accuracy, and here is a paper to illustrate: Equiprobability and Instajumps Scrap the skill idea though - just make it module based, maybe allow stacking of modules for increased accuracy. I would go for high slot rather than mid slot - or maybe have both but with different bonuses. Well modules are enormously valuable in eve. Slots are premium stuff in combat. The skills would allow a vetran user willing to invest training time to free up a mid slot on his ship by compensating with a skill. Originally by: Bunny Wunny this could work, but I'd like to see the distance increase depending on ship size. so because a Battleships warp bubble is bigger than a ceptors it would collapse further away, not TOO far away, just a bit more. This might be interesting for haulers. Perhaps a hauler driver would also need a navi computer in addition to the skills in order to do truly insta movement. Without skills he might need 2 or 3 of them. More use for mid slots in haulers is good. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Redblade	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:24:00 - [17] Sorry but this solves alot more issues then just the instas and is a much more balanced sollution then yours imo. Killboard
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Redblade Sorry but this solves alot more issues then just the instas and is a much more balanced sollution then yours imo. What exactly is "unbalanced" about the proposal. You had a different one that I personally feel is overly complicated and doesnt solve any of the issues. But that is just opinion. You said my proposal is unbalanced, lets hear why. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:27:00 - [19] Quote: You are arguing against something that is already here. My intention is to reduce the tedium and server load and instead of having tedium to have more abilities to interdict someone warping. I was arguing against a broken gameplay mechanic that was never supposed to be here. It breaks a fundamental part of the gameplay. I don't want to see it implemented as a part of the game, I want it removed (and replaced with something that doesn't make gate-camps an insta-death blob-o-guns. 15km IS too far). ________
Maggot	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:28:00 - [20] The reason I say drop the skill idea is that everyone who PvPs or travels in low sec would train it, so it becomes almost mandatory. If the skill took a long time to train it would also discourage people from getting out into 0.0. Its no big deal though - just I think a little unnecessary
Tharbad	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:28:00 - [21] More mods? Just to warp to the same place as anyone else? More skills just to perform the basic functionality of the game - space flight? I mean, for gods sake, whats next - skill, Undocking, Rank 3, 20% less delay per level, new 10 minute undocking delay? Seriously, instas are not essential in empire, and they're only necessary in 0.0 on your well-travelled routes - and you can make or buy a set pretty easily. I'm quite happy MWDing to gates on my day-to-day travels, and using insta's on the real regular or dangerous routes. The devs are ALREADY looking that this, Derisor, and I'm sure their solution will be better than yours. Yours is hamfisted, clumsy, painful, no fun, and frankly, bull****. Stop being so impatient and demanding that there be a fix, now. Someone pointed out that there was a blog on it, and you proceeded to whine about "nothing being done". Christ.
AlphaM	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:31:00 - [22] Making insta's skill based would just mean that noobs who want to train for a cruiser would get ganked at gates more often that Vets who can spend a week or so training the warping skills without a sweat.
Magnum III	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:31:00 - [23] Edited by: Magnum III on 11/10/2005 10:31:51 Originally by: Derisor Originally by: Redblade Sorry but this solves alot more issues then just the instas and is a much more balanced sollution then yours imo. What exactly is "unbalanced" about the proposal. You had a different one that I personally feel is overly complicated and doesnt solve any of the issues. But that is just opinion. You said my proposal is unbalanced, lets hear why. Noobs and New players in the OP's proposal would be GANKED for months with out the skills & lager ships then frigates to hold the needed modules.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Nero Scuro Quote: You are arguing against something that is already here. My intention is to reduce the tedium and server load and instead of having tedium to have more abilities to interdict someone warping. I was arguing against a broken gameplay mechanic that was never supposed to be here. It breaks a fundamental part of the gameplay. I don't want to see it implemented as a part of the game, I want it removed (and replaced with something that doesn't make gate-camps an insta-death blob-o-guns. 15km IS too far). A mechanic that has, however, become an integral part of the game in a way that could not be simply hell nerfed without losing significant number of customers. And also there is really no reason a player should have to crawl up to gates the 99% of time that there is no one even there. Its much better to let the campers have more ways to stop their prey then to make the prey go through hell most of the time they are in the game. You are an experienced pilot nero and you know how much of an annoyance it would be if CCP just flat yanked all your instas and said you can warp to 5km. Moving anything big would be a bloody nightmare and an extremely unsafe one too. Those that wish to stop people should have the tools to do so but they should have to use those tools and not depend on the game to simply provide them with ducks painted with little red targets. It would still be outrageously easy to pirate, gate camp, ambush and so on. In fact with warp bubble improvents it would be even easier to do so off the gate. But with this idea the 99% of the time no one is there would not be drudgery. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Magnum III	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:33:00 - [25] Originally by: AlphaM Making insta's skill based would just mean that noobs who want to train for a cruiser would get ganked at gates more often that Vets who can spend a week or so training the warping skills without a sweat. Right On That's what I'm saying too. And I like to start new characters too.
Avon	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:34:00 - [26] I would just like to add that my idea is beautiful in its simplicity .. just like me :P ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Magnum III Edited by: Magnum III on 11/10/2005 10:31:51 Originally by: Derisor Originally by: Redblade Sorry but this solves alot more issues then just the instas and is a much more balanced sollution then yours imo. What exactly is "unbalanced" about the proposal. You had a different one that I personally feel is overly complicated and doesnt solve any of the issues. But that is just opinion. You said my proposal is unbalanced, lets hear why. Noobs and New players in the OP's proposal would be GANKED for months with out the skills & lager ships then frigates to hold the needed modules. No one said what the stats were on the modules and the likely solution would be to make them ship-class based like guns. Furthermore, training Warp Drive operation 1 takes 15 minutes, training Navi 1 takes 20 min. Training a tier one skill to 5 takes 6 to 8 days. Where exactly do you get "months" ? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:37:00 - [28] Edited by: Harry Voyager on 11/10/2005 10:42:03 Edit: Ah, found it. Post removed. Harry Voyager
Korben Morat	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:40:00 - [29] I once thought that the comunity of this game was great, we had people who respected the thought, care and attention to detail that went into the game and who also respected the developers as intelligent, creative and hard working. Now I see a post like this. Originally by: Derisor (Try to Blackmail the devs with a threat of increased server load and a 'solution' to the bookmark 'problem') In my opinion you are trying to start some sort of flame war here, I mean you KNOW there are hardware problems at the moment and yet u still post this crud? CCP have already stated that server load is very high and we've had problems because hardware they have ordered is late. Seriously, wtf, have some respect for CCP's hard work and some appreciation for what they are trying to do. This is a game and it has it's problems and anything that is a major problem is going to be addressed, pulse lasers overpowered? nerf, missiles? same and you know what? they are pretty well sorted out now. Look at the proposed changes to manufacturing to reduce server load. They are probably needed far more urgently then a bookmark fix. Do you seriously think that this game doesn't consume the dev's thoughts as to how they can improve it? After reading comments by various devs as well as interviews ad dev chats, I wonder how any of these guys have lives outside work! Trust them, they have a plan, that much is evident in various sneak peeks, dev blogs and forum posts. I would think that the Devs know far better then anyone what is causing problems on their server side and will address the problems in order of importance. I've seen hundreds of threads on this forum calling, nerf this nerf that, do this my way etc and to be honest I'm real sick of it. Have some patience people, please.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.11 10:41:00 - [30] Originally by: AlphaM Making insta's skill based would just mean that noobs who want to train for a cruiser would get ganked at gates more often that Vets who can spend a week or so training the warping skills without a sweat. First of all crusers are a tad pointless at the moment except for ratting. Second of all, what is the noob doing in lowsec where he can get ganked. Third of all, what is stopping him from training for a week (heck the week probably hurts the vetran more because his skills take hell long to train). Fourth, it would simply be another of many skills to train. If that noob isnt going to lowsec and he probably wont if he is ratting in a frigate, he would have nothing to worry about crawl to the gate (WP 4, NAV 1, WDO 1 + computer = 1.0km) == 1.5 days of training time. Do the math before panicing. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!

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