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Level 5 -= ELITE Learning Skills =- Payoff

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Messerschmitt facility	Posted - 2006.02.16 06:26:00 - [61] I want the elite skills! And Defenetely the prerequisite must be level 5 advance skill (like the advance skill was having). Let's just say I already have level 5 to 3 of them and a level 4 to an another _________________________________ A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.02.17 02:27:00 - [62] Originally by: Endevite Was the order of skills trained taken into consideration? As if you work on mem first then int, it as you go reduces over all learning skills training time. Of course. --- Skill Collector Level 273 skills trained.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.04.18 04:25:00 - [63] Edited by: Spartan III on 18/04/2006 04:25:05 Originally by: Tripoli Now I am not going to bother with telling you how long it will take to pay off training these six new skills from level 0 to level 4 or from level 0 to level 5. Very few would care... Actually, many would not care about going from 0 to 5 but most would care about how long it would take to payoff from going from advanced level 4 to elite level 4 using your alts base attributes. Thats where most of us are and it would be really nice of you to do a bit of math for me/us If its not too much trouble could you also find out how long it would take to payoff for all the attributes except charisma using these base attributes? Say they had all advanced learnings to level 4, learning skill at level 4, and had +3 implants(not sure what the exzact attributes would be) intelligence> 6 perception> 9 memory> 7 willpower> 10 If its too much for you to do I will try to look through your threads and figure out the math myself. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.04.18 04:53:00 - [64] I wrote a simple payoff calculator in Excel just for this reason. The payoff for training all five advanced learning skills from level 2 to level 3 is 41 days 13 hours 52 minutes and 43 seconds. The payoff for training all five advanced learning skills from level 3 to level 4 is 235 days 4 hours 41 minutes and 49 seconds. Omitting Charisma means it will simply be 4/5 as long, or for four advanced learning skills from level 3 to level 4: 188 days 3 hours 45 minutes and 27 seconds. --- Skill Collector Level 278 skills trained.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.04.18 17:32:00 - [65] thanks for the info, but that still does not tell me how long it would take to payoff from going from, all basic learning 5, and advanced learning level 4, to having all Elite learning level 4 --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting
Shoele Lialos	Posted - 2006.04.18 17:49:00 - [66] This is all great, but where do I go to advance my personal agenda of having each of the 15 category named skills being a sort of "pseudo-learning" skill. That is: Drones, Engineering, Electronics, Gunnery, etc (the skills that name the categories) each giving like 1% learning bonus per level, but only for skills in their category.
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.04.19 01:33:00 - [67] Originally by: Spartan III thanks for the info, but that still does not tell me how long it would take to payoff from going from, all basic learning 5, and advanced learning level 4, to having all Elite learning level 4 Well, we've always really considered this information irrelevant, because payoff based on multiple levels of training is technically inaccurate. But if it'll make ya happy... 425 days 23 hours and 20 minutes. All the way to Elite 5: 724 days 13 hours and 11 minutes. Those are based on training all 5 skills. --- Skill Collector Level 278 skills trained.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.04.19 13:28:00 - [68] Originally by: Tripoli Originally by: Spartan III thanks for the info, but that still does not tell me how long it would take to payoff from going from, all basic learning 5, and advanced learning level 4, to having all Elite learning level 4 Well, we've always really considered this information irrelevant, because payoff based on multiple levels of training is technically inaccurate. But if it'll make ya happy... 425 days 23 hours and 20 minutes. All the way to Elite 5: 724 days 13 hours and 11 minutes. Those are based on training all 5 skills. Thanks for the info. Guess that means I will not train them as I will be going to colledge in about 1-1.5 years, unless of course I can get someone to train my account while I am away. Is that legal? --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting
Namarus	Posted - 2006.04.19 15:23:00 - [69] No, it is not.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.04.19 17:43:00 - [70] Yeah I won't be training elite learning then --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting

Shoele Lialos	Posted - 2006.04.19 21:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Spartan III Thanks for the info. Guess that means I will not train them as I will be going to colledge in about 1-1.5 years, unless of course I can get someone to train my account while I am away. Is that legal? Why would you need to stop playing just because you're going to college? EVE is the perfect game for college. It can be skilling while you're in class, or asleep, and ready for you to play when you have time. I can't imagine you're going to a college without broadband access.
Sorelia	Posted - 2006.04.19 21:43:00 - [72] If they actually released elite learning skills that would litterally be the worst thing they could do for the game. I've spent a lot of time trying to convince several people to try EVE and every time it's been a failure for 2 big reasons. 1) They feel like there is no point in actually playing the game since they can train their skills offline. 2) They get fed up waiting for learning skills to train just so they can actually "play". Some of them try to do learning skills only part of the time but they get fed up knowing they are wasting time by doing so. EVE might always have the first problem but they absolutely have to do something about the 2nd problem. New player learning skill grind must be removed from the game somehow.
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.04.20 00:06:00 - [73] Edited by: Tripoli on 20/04/2006 00:11:57 Originally by: Sorelia If they actually released elite learning skills that would litterally be the worst thing they could do for the game. I've spent a lot of time trying to convince several people to try EVE and every time it's been a failure for 2 big reasons. 1) They feel like there is no point in actually playing the game since they can train their skills offline. 2) They get fed up waiting for learning skills to train just so they can actually "play". Some of them try to do learning skills only part of the time but they get fed up knowing they are wasting time by doing so. EVE might always have the first problem but they absolutely have to do something about the 2nd problem. New player learning skill grind must be removed from the game somehow. Ya know it's funny, because a lot of people see that training learning skills is in fact a waste of time because of the insanely long payoff time for the higher levels. If they bother you that much, don't train them. It only makes a big difference after a very, very long time. My alt never trained the level 5 basic learning skills until the advanced ones came out, and never trained the advanced ones past 4 until now (I'm partially done). Alt has 31 million skill points and is maxed out in everything I wanted to be able to do. You don't need to spend weeks training the learning skills. It's really only for the people that decide they want to play VERY long-term and who can't stand not having the most SP of anyone. That's not an issue for a newbie because they'll never catch up. Get over it, spend a few hours getting to level 3, then go out and have fun. If that's not good enough, EVE's not for you. --- Skill Collector Level 278 skills trained.
Spartan III	Posted - 2006.04.20 02:46:00 - [74] Originally by: Shoele Lialos Originally by: Spartan III Thanks for the info. Guess that means I will not train them as I will be going to colledge in about 1-1.5 years, unless of course I can get someone to train my account while I am away. Is that legal? Why would you need to stop playing just because you're going to college? EVE is the perfect game for college. It can be skilling while you're in class, or asleep, and ready for you to play when you have time. I can't imagine you're going to a college without broadband access. Well, the colledge I am going to is actually the United States Naval Academy(Annapolis), and I don't really see it possible to be playing eve while attending the naval academy as it would probably be looked down upon. I probably would not have the time to play either. I might be able to train skills though, but not sure I would be able to keep that up for 4 years. Maybe just a lot of really long ones and become EXTREMELY specialized. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting
Tjarish	Posted - 2006.06.03 10:19:00 - [75] well already had 4 freinds quit becouse of the 2month learning skills and 25mil before you can PLAY the game without the feeling that you will be overrun for accually wanting to play insted of laming while grinding sp for those 2month of learning skills... its so ***** stupid, they should remove all kind of stats buff and maybe put in a "time related buff" so after x-month you get an automatically +x in a chosen stats. this would mean NO more ebay selling for the insain amount of isk (many new players get to get implants, and not feeling they are wasting time they could have gained) it would mean NO more time where you just sit, looking at the learning skills thinking " this is lame"... and the older chars wouldn't feel like "hmm alittle unfair it didnt come out before now"... and yer yer, i know you STATS-WHORING people are SCREAMING "OW NO then i can't get my 15+ in my stats and i cant get my +5implants WHAT should i do, then it will take longer *!!"... well if that is the chase, why not then just do it to the full. make super-elite learning, and super-duper-elite learning and super-max-super learning etc. so people can just take their stats as high as they would like just a matter of the time they wonna spend on it?! (becouse thats what i see when i see a 35 stats increase for the price of 5month playtime) people that can't see a problem with this most be ******* stupid... (though implant is a good idear, but shouldn't decrease your learning time with stats) Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of imself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant,
digitalwanderer	Posted - 2006.06.03 13:40:00 - [76] Originally by: Tripoli Edited by: Tripoli on 20/04/2006 00:11:57 Originally by: Sorelia If they actually released elite learning skills that would litterally be the worst thing they could do for the game. I've spent a lot of time trying to convince several people to try EVE and every time it's been a failure for 2 big reasons. 1) They feel like there is no point in actually playing the game since they can train their skills offline. 2) They get fed up waiting for learning skills to train just so they can actually "play". Some of them try to do learning skills only part of the time but they get fed up knowing they are wasting time by doing so. EVE might always have the first problem but they absolutely have to do something about the 2nd problem. New player learning skill grind must be removed from the game somehow. Ya know it's funny, because a lot of people see that training learning skills is in fact a waste of time because of the insanely long payoff time for the higher levels. If they bother you that much, don't train them. It only makes a big difference after a very, very long time. My alt never trained the level 5 basic learning skills until the advanced ones came out, and never trained the advanced ones past 4 until now (I'm partially done). Alt has 31 million skill points and is maxed out in everything I wanted to be able to do. You don't need to spend weeks training the learning skills. It's really only for the people that decide they want to play VERY long-term and who can't stand not having the most SP of anyone. That's not an issue for a newbie because they'll never catch up. Get over it, spend a few hours getting to level 3, then go out and have fun. If that's not good enough, EVE's not for you. Still,Maxing out the elite training skills,should they ever be released,only make sense if your trying to train all skills currently in the game and plan on playing the game until the server eventually shuts down for good,but most people aren't trying for that in any case... Personally,i just focus on ship skills pretty much exclusively and as it stands right now,i'm about 20 million skill points away from being able to fly all races,right up to carrier and dreads,quite effectively(roughly 200 skills by then,75+ of wich will be at lvl 5,the rest at lvl 4 and nothing below that)...All this will happen in about a year from now at my current pace to boot.
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.06.04 04:00:00 - [77] I love when 8-month old threads come back to life. dw, your comment that basically related to skill collecting caught my attention. In fact, with the insane payoff time, a skill collector would realistically do better by NOT maxing out Elite Learning Skills. Starfly is proof of how not training the Advanced Learning Skills to five has helped propel him ahead of me in the skills race. --- 282 of 312 skills trained.
Static Universe	Posted - 2006.06.04 05:52:00 - [78] Originally by: Tjarish well already had 4 freinds quit becouse of the 2month learning skills and 25mil before you can PLAY the game without the feeling that you will be overrun for accually wanting to play insted of laming while grinding sp for those 2month of learning skills... its so ***** stupid, they should remove all kind of stats buff and maybe put in a "time related buff" so after x-month you get an automatically +x in a chosen stats. this would mean NO more ebay selling for the insain amount of isk (many new players get to get implants, and not feeling they are wasting time they could have gained) it would mean NO more time where you just sit, looking at the learning skills thinking " this is lame"... and the older chars wouldn't feel like "hmm alittle unfair it didnt come out before now"... and yer yer, i know you STATS-WHORING people are SCREAMING "OW NO then i can't get my 15+ in my stats and i cant get my +5implants WHAT should i do, then it will take longer *!!"... well if that is the chase, why not then just do it to the full. make super-elite learning, and super-duper-elite learning and super-max-super learning etc. so people can just take their stats as high as they would like just a matter of the time they wonna spend on it?! (becouse thats what i see when i see a 35 stats increase for the price of 5month playtime) people that can't see a problem with this most be ******* stupid... (though implant is a good idear, but shouldn't decrease your learning time with stats) I normally don't like to come in with a "STFU noob", but it seems so appropriate here.
ragewind	Posted - 2006.06.04 10:56:00 - [79] we all know the training time are a joke realy and that the learning skills dont seem to pay off for ages more larning skills wont help ccp just beeds to boost all atributs flatly (+3 to each or so) for ever player then the new players will want to stick about instead of thinking sod this the train quick skills takes 3-4 months and in that time i cant do anything at all fun. if they do a flat rate increase it helps the newbs and keeps the vets happy ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector! advanced industrial ship
digitalwanderer	Posted - 2006.06.04 18:54:00 - [80] Originally by: Tripoli I love when 8-month old threads come back to life. dw, your comment that basically related to skill collecting caught my attention. In fact, with the insane payoff time, a skill collector would realistically do better by NOT maxing out Elite Learning Skills. Starfly is proof of how not training the Advanced Learning Skills to five has helped propel him ahead of me in the skills race. In the short term,of course,but there's only so many rank 1/rank 2/rank 3 skills that one can max out before starting to hit the seriously larger rank skills and that's where the payoff starts with the elite learning skills trained up at least to lvl 4...Though even then,it'll still take a long time to break even... But in all honesty,i don't think we'll see any more skills to speed up training time beyond what's already out,precisely because of the extreme amount of time it would take to break even,though it would have the advantage of making use of atribute implants rather optional,but in turn,runs the risk of devaluating the implant market in the big way...Especially for vets that have been playing for 2+ years now and have nicely trained up chars.... The game has been out now for over 3 years,so if elite learning skills,even better atribute implants(+6/+7) or atribute increases thru temporary boosters were part of the release schedule at some point,i doubt that's still the case now...

Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.06.04 21:58:00 - [81] STICKY THIS!!!!
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.06.05 07:03:00 - [82] Edited by: Ghoest on 05/06/2006 07:04:48 Originally by: Maric These "Elite learning skils" if ever introduced should not be (imho) avialable thru regular market, but only as rare rat loot or complex loot droping. This is an example of the utterly pathetic reasoning so common on these boards. If this was done the only result would be that older players who are richer in general and more capable of doing tough complexes would get most the skill books this would result in new players being even more behind old players in skills. The reason advanced learning was added 2 years after release was this decreased the relative difference in the skill number s of newbs and verterns over time. CCP smarter = than you. EDIT: Crap I answered a necro thread. Wherever you went - here you are.
Zoltaris	Posted - 2006.06.11 19:46:00 - [83] Before adding Elite learning skills, i think Improved learning skills should be added 1st, then elite one, which would be rank 8 and require the improved ones to be at lvl 5, with maybe an improved learning lvl 5 added too and required to train elite learnings! Now, how much time would it require for these to payoff? ----- > Order Falcon & Pilgrim
ragewind	Posted - 2006.06.11 20:41:00 - [84] Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 05/06/2006 07:04:48 Originally by: Maric These "Elite learning skils" if ever introduced should not be (imho) avialable thru regular market, but only as rare rat loot or complex loot droping. This is an example of the utterly pathetic reasoning so common on these boards. If this was done the only result would be that older players who are richer in general and more capable of doing tough complexes would get most the skill books this would result in new players being even more behind old players in skills. The reason advanced learning was added 2 years after release was this decreased the relative difference in the skill number s of newbs and verterns over time. CCP smarter = than you. EDIT: Crap I answered a necro thread. exespt all the vets just picked up learning skills trained then with there current pods full of nice high end implants and trained faster then the newbs anywas they they liked the reduction they got of things like dead skill nor learning skills are pants just give a base +3 to ever player in the gme old and new to all atributes this will then be a counter to the current 22 years to train everthing and any of the new skills that will no doght be added to the game and to the training time ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector! advanced industrial ship


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