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Deana
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Posted - 2003.08.03 05:55:00 -
[1]
Take a Tempest.
Equip it with 6 projectile weapons
4 weapon upgrades with damage and tracking speed buff.
The 4 70% shield resist buff subsystem and 1 permanent 15% em resist buff.
Just turn on all four module with auto repeat.
You end up with a battle ship almost immune to any type of damage for only 80 energy point every 10 sec. With weapons that donÆt use any cap you can keep the shield buffer on as long as you want.
Now that seem WAY too easy to be true, so were exactly am I wrong here? Could any veteran player tell me whatÆs wrong with that tactic?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.03 07:17:00 -
[2]
You'll last a long time but you'll die eventually without a large shield booster, which drains a good deal of cap.
I fly a Scorpion which kind of spoils you with eight medium slots but I even I don't run all four damage type hardeners, there's lot of other stuff you want too, to be effective.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Larry Wall
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Posted - 2003.08.03 07:56:00 -
[3]
Ever tried running 6 large projectiles on a Tempest against hybrids or lasers? It's basically equivalent to all your opponents having -70% vs all damage types at no cap cost and no slot cost. That's why.
Larry Wall
Not quite suffering from deep space dementia yet...
...but will if he doesn't get back to...
...a system without number or dash in the name soon... |
Deana
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Posted - 2003.08.03 12:53:00 -
[4]
well that setup gives over 90% resist for all damage type. don't exepect heavy neutron blaster with antimer charges to hit you for more than 50 or 60 . I still can't see what's wrong with that tactic.
Unless the maximum resist is 70%?
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.03 20:43:00 -
[5]
Actually, it won't. The resitances don't simply stack.
For example, the EMP. 70% damage resitance from the field -> 30% damage left.
From these 30% the 15% damage resitance does NOT reduce it to 15% but to 30 * 0.85 -> 25.5%.
free speech not allowed here |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.03 20:58:00 -
[6]
"Equip it with 6 projectile weapons
4 weapon upgrades with damage and tracking speed buff.
The 4 70% shield resist buff subsystem and 1 permanent 15% em resist buff.
(..)
Now that seem WAY too easy to be true, so were exactly am I wrong here?"
... well, for one thing you're left with no protection against being jammed whatsoever?.. Little point in being able to last long if all you can do is exactly that, sit there and last long... :s
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Eliane Kendara
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Posted - 2003.08.04 03:33:00 -
[7]
You all seem to forget that tempest have the best speed. Just keep a target at 30+ km and neither neutron blaster or jammers will be able to touch you.
As for railgun BB they'll never have a firepower comparable to yours. Railgun just cost way too much cpu and power for what little more they give.
My ideal Tempest. has 6 800mm canon, 4 70% buff, 1 shield booster, and 5 damage/speed buff.
Not as easy to play as a get-in-the-brawl blaster type of BB, but unbeatable in the good hands I think.
If you have a better template in mind, please share.
I did my math and the exact resistance you get are 70%em, 88%explo,82%kinetic, and 75% heat.
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Psychic Sue
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Posted - 2003.08.04 04:26:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
You all seem to forget that tempest have the best speed. Just keep a target at 30+ km and neither neutron blaster or jammers will be able to touch you.
now show me the guns that will be effective at the mentioned 30km range. they are certainly not the 800mm's you proposed. and noone will ever get me into using the 1200mm/1400mm shooting every 20 seconds and missing 50% of the shots ?? no way I am gonna use those.
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Ruulex DeMors
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Posted - 2003.08.04 04:51:00 -
[9]
Quote:
You all seem to forget that tempest have the best speed. Just keep a target at 30+ km and neither neutron blaster or jammers will be able to touch you.
Also, don't ECM jammers have an effective range equal to your ships targeting range? For a BB it's around 55+km, I don't see a BS ourrunning a BB, especially not with the set-up you mention.
-------------------------------------
Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals
http://www.EVEMarshals.com |
KillCreep
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Posted - 2003.08.04 11:42:00 -
[10]
I think she was speaking about warp jammers, those have only a effective range of 20km. If someone ECM Jams her at 30km she can still flee.
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Wytch Doktor
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Posted - 2003.08.04 14:14:00 -
[11]
I think you would be much better off with a targeting computer. Instead of 4 hardeners, just use 3, a booster, and a Tracking computer. The added hits will make it worth more than another hardener. Heck I would only use two hardeners. And have a good Ladar Backup array.
Ok enuff of this, I dont have my tempest yet. tick a lock.
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CrazzlY
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Posted - 2003.08.04 14:50:00 -
[12]
Why buy a Tempest?
I mean, both Megathron and Apocs have more struct, shield, armor... then why buy a Tempest?
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Quiz
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Posted - 2003.08.04 15:45:00 -
[13]
Apoc would get hurt badly in a battleship fight due to its lack of a few extra medium slots. I wouldnt recommend focusing on how much damage a bs could deliver, as the only thing that matters is how much get through the shields of your opponent. Just my opinion.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.04 17:19:00 -
[14]
Because:
- Tempest has actually a bigger shield
- Tempest is faster
- Tempest has more med slots
- Tempest has projectile turret boni
free speech not allowed here |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2003.08.04 23:44:00 -
[15]
Projectiles might actually be useful on a Tempest, but still not as good as lasers/hybrids. Also, shield hardeners aren't for Tempest only, indeed most ships have a few shield hardeners.
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Eliane Kendara
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Posted - 2003.08.05 02:35:00 -
[16]
with the Tempest projectile buff, and the 5 projectile buffer modules. The 6 800mm will have over 6x damage modifier and a ROF below 7 sec.
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Mace Windu
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Posted - 2003.08.05 04:02:00 -
[17]
Two sensor dampners and your Tempest theory is moot.
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Isomerone
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Posted - 2003.08.05 07:41:00 -
[18]
Energy and sheild drainer
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CrazzlY
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Posted - 2003.08.05 09:44:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Because:
- Tempest has actually a bigger shield
- Tempest is faster
- Tempest has more med slots
- Tempest has projectile turret boni
But Tempests Hi-Turret slots are -1 if you compare to the Megathron 7turrets, 1-2 missiles, 8 high.
If you take a head to head battle between a Megathron and a Tempest (NO other ships included).
If the Tempest has 6 "whatever" and 2 launcers.
The Megathron 425mm rails+250mm coils+1 launcer.
If both of the ships had the same low and medium outfitt, the Megathron should win.
Correct me if I'm wrong here.
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Ajunta LEE
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Posted - 2003.08.05 11:14:00 -
[20]
correct me if i m wrong but there is no way a one vs one battle is won between bs without warp scrambling would you fight with a fully equipped apoc against a typhoon with airsoft guns and shining paint you will not kill it before it warps out. So fitting with an all damaging equipment is just of absolutely no use. as it was said in the 2nd post you have some other things to fit than tracking computers and shield hardeners.
on non one on one battles any lone ship is destroyable by a band of 3 cruisers whatever his fitting is.
but you are right on one point a good hardenned ship is unkillable, if you are stuck just do like brave people trolling about pirates camping at a gate do, pull out the plug. your shield should last enough with the hardenners on autorepeat for the 2 minutes to pass.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.05 11:31:00 -
[21]
Mhh.. not really. Effeciently all the mega has is one *possible* gun more.
But the Tempest has more grid than the mega, 11k vs 12.5k, so it can mount more guns. And projectile guns need less powergrid than hybrid guns.
Without reactor controls the mega can mount 3 425 rails while the tempest can use 6 800 artillerys without any problem. And since the optimal range of the artillerys is relativly low it can use EMP ammo without much problems, while the range of the 425 with AM is a lot lower.
So, basically, the Tempest will do more damage, even since it can mount one damage mod less. And to do this damage it needs almost none energy. Leaving it free for shield boosters.
And let's not forget it additional medium slot, that one could be equipped with an additionla thermal hardener, screwing the megas haybrid damage. Or a tacking CPU, increasing the turret range.
And, finally, the projectiles can switch between a big range of damage type, if the mega hasn't thermal, emp and kinetic shields on it's likely screwed in it's defence, too.
So, how would the mega win? Enlight me.
free speech not allowed here |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2003.08.05 11:41:00 -
[22]
The mega would warp away and fit 3 jammers, warp scrambler and a couple of nanofibers or overdrives.
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CrazzlY
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Posted - 2003.08.05 11:55:00 -
[23]
Quote:
So, how would the mega win? Enlight me.
So all out, the Tempest is a BETTER BS than the Mega? If you DON'T count it could warp away etc etc..?
Just curious as I'm getting a Mega this week, and if it is so "bad" as you say it is, is it better to sell the mega and get a apoc or tempest directly?
Just curios on what I shall do, because I want a good ship - and as you say now, the Mega sucks =(
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.05 17:37:00 -
[24]
First - no BS is really bad. The main issue which decides how good it is is how you equip and use it.
But the Mega is - IMO - almost the weakest LV2 BS (right after the Raven). It's not much better in it's stats as the Dominix and cannot deal more damage is it either.
You can mount more turrets on a Mega, but since it has effectivly 2 usable low solts less (you have to waste one slot of the mega with a cpu enhancer if you want to equipt it effciently) you can load less damage mods.
I'm flying a Domi atm and even if someone would offer me to switch it against a Mega for no costs I wouldn't do it. (Ok, I would - but only to sell the mega afterwards for 100 mil and get myself a domi for 60 again  ).
free speech not allowed here |
Eliane Kendara
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Posted - 2003.08.05 17:59:00 -
[25]
a 800mm gun with titanium ammo has a 70% miss rate at 30Km with no skill. with the right skill you can go to 50% accuracy at 30 km.
a railgun with antimatter ammo has over 90% miss rate at that distance.
Just to equip 4 railgun on a mega, you need to waste one low slot for a cpu buff, and one low slot for a power buff.
As for electronic warfare, with 5 med slot, and 75km max targeting range on the Tempest a mega is screwed.
I can have 2 eccm and 3 ecm on my tempest if want to go that way.
Do I have to remind you that you have to be able to target your opponent to use ecm, so the first one who jams the other wins. With 10 km more max range, a tempest is gonna be hard to beat.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2003.08.05 18:18:00 -
[26]
Minmatar ships also have the fastest stock lock times of any other ship. My Tempest locks at 5.7 seconds. Not bad for a BS. Calderi have the worse and with my skills, a Mega would lock at 7.01 seconds (from a base of 8.25).
The 5 med of the Tempest is somewhat of a blessing and a curse though. Tempests, like most class 2 BS, have very poor CPU. And as we all know, med slot items are often the most CPU intensive. But, honestly, that's a problem I don't mind having too much as I can raise various skills to improve CPU.
The Scorpion really is amongst the best with it's ability to run so much ECM effectively. About the only way to beat a scorp 1v1 is if you lock first (advantage to all other ships as calderi has bad lock times) and sensor dampen right away to prevent you being sensor dampned first. Only a few ships can effectively do that and still have room for other esstential modules, the Tempest, the Dominix, the Raven and of course other Scorps. If the scorp isn't running an F90, then the nod goes to the Tempest due to locking times.
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CrazzlY
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Posted - 2003.08.05 20:15:00 -
[27]
So, the Mega isn't a very good BS here, if you DON'T think about skills and items here, is that what you are trying to say?
So what ship is the best ship?
I guess Apoc is first,
Scorpion 2:nd,
Tempest 3:d,
Mega 4:th
Raven 5:th.
This list is made without any skills in mind at all.
I want a Mega because it's a good looking ship, but if it sucks as much as everybody says, maybe I shall buy a Apoc instead 
Someone tell me what to do here, as I'm very confused.
I want to use hybrids, and the Mega is "the" ship for that, but when someone says it only can mount 3-4 425mm rails, without giving up to much combat ability, maybe I'm wrong here too.
Apoc is "the" uber lazer combat platform, with enough cap and powergrid to make every pilot happy.
Just tell me what I shall do here, and if someone could write a good combat outfit for a mega would be even better.
Thanks all!
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Beseb
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Posted - 2003.08.05 21:43:00 -
[28]
Crazy, don't fret too much about it. Seriously, the Mega is a great ship with it's own strengths and weakness (as most other ships have as well).
The main thing is to try and fit your prefered play style with the ship that matches it best.
I will say Gallente BS's have one other small disadvantage and that is the bulk of thier "hit points" lie in the hull, which is bad. Hull always takes max damage from all weapon types (no resists). This isn't a *huge* deal, but a factor for sure.
Of the Gallente BSs though, I like the stats of the Dominix the best. In fact, the Domi is considered one of the best all round battleships because of it's very solid slot lay out. Not to mention it's absolute gargantuan drone bay. The other nice thing is it's got the CPU to actually drive it's 5 very valuable med slots.
As far as value for your dollar, then the Domi is *far* superior to the Mega. Domi's are so popular you can find them for under 60mil. That's a bargain at today's prices.
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Quiz
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Posted - 2003.08.05 22:48:00 -
[29]
I would take a Scorpion into combat against a Apoc any day. The apoc would run or die.
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2003.08.06 01:54:00 -
[30]
Some ships are very poor PvP vessels. Amarrian ships are the absolute best for PvE combat and the best Fleet action ships IF their well supported, which means as long as they don't get jammed. Amarrian ships are very poor PvP ships, probably the worst due to their weak med slots.
Caldari ships are the best PvP vessels but probably the worst PvE ships, which don't matter much since the enviroment in EVE is as tough as the romper room.
Gallante I find are in the middle between PvP and PvE and the Minmatar are in 3rd place for either type of play style.
Shield hardners need to be nerfed, their the "Must have or DIE!" modules at the moment. I don't like the way EVE funnels your options. Nerf them to reasonable amounts please don't make them useless like you did with the Multi Hardners. Perhaps cutting their resistence down to half is nice.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
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