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Missiles from the good ol days.

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Dark Falz	Posted - 2005.10.18 15:46:00 - [1] I remember back in the day that when high end frigs could fit heavy missiles launchers and put cruise missiles in them to deal mass amounts of dmg. AGAINST EVERYTHING!!!! But now a days when i got back on eve there is this big stupid nerf on missiles. Oh please you mean to tell me that a big missiles dose little dmg to small things. Now if any devs read this please explain to me the reason for this.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:07:00 - [2] frigs could never fit heavy missile launchers. Cruise used to fit in standard launchers, and torps in heavy launchers. As to why they changed it? Cause they changed everything that was fun. Although it was crazy unbalanced .
Hex Stiletto	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Dark Falz I remember back in the day that when high end frigs could fit heavy missiles launchers and put cruise missiles in them to deal mass amounts of dmg. AGAINST EVERYTHING!!!! But now a days when i got back on eve there is this big stupid nerf on missiles. Oh please you mean to tell me that a big missiles dose little dmg to small things. Now if any devs read this please explain to me the reason for this. Hi Hex Stiletto here, Like, man, there is a whole class of high end frigates that you can fit cruise missle lauchers to. And they have a cool bonus that lets them do good damage to frigates. Fly safe, beautiful people. Hex Stiletto - Pan Galactic Gigolo Your pleasure is my business Available for weddings, funerals and Bar Mitzvah Contact me for rates and availability
Gary Goat	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:26:00 - [4] Oh god not another one. Basicly missiles do not hit ships, they just detonate close to the ships. Scince large missiles are less agile then small missiles, they detonate further away from the ship. If you look at the stats on the missiles, there is an explosion velosity which is the speed of the explosion from the point of detonation. If the ship is flying faster then this speed, it will take significantly less damage as it will be right on the edge of the explosion radius. Linkage From that picture you can see that the large missile only gets a small portion of the small ship, therefore doing much less damage then the small missile where the whole ship is within the explosion radius.
vecdran	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Gary Goat Oh god not another one. Basicly missiles do not hit ships, they just detonate close to the ships. Scince large missiles are less agile then small missiles, they detonate further away from the ship. If you look at the stats on the missiles, there is an explosion velosity which is the speed of the explosion from the point of detonation. If the ship is flying faster then this speed, it will take significantly less damage as it will be right on the edge of the explosion radius. Linkage From that picture you can see that the large missile only gets a small portion of the small ship, therefore doing much less damage then the small missile where the whole ship is within the explosion radius. No you don't understand. He's not asking HOW missiles work, but WHY they were nerfed from their old state. Back in the good ol' days none of this sig radius junk was included in missile damage calculations, and you could have a blast running around in a kestrel loaded up with a salvo of cruise missiles. Was crazier back then :(
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:35:00 - [6] Originally by: DrunkenOne frigs could never fit heavy missile launchers. Cruise used to fit in standard launchers, and torps in heavy launchers. As to why they changed it? Cause they changed everything that was fun. Although it was crazy unbalanced . oh yeah... I remember flying rifters with AC's and cruise missiles... ...miss those days ...but it's also true that it was very unbalanced. ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Flowen	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:41:00 - [7] Ok I understand you picture and i get what you said. But if that is the since of how they maid the missiles. Then they need to fix the animation of them to be more accurate to the picture u showed me. If you fire a missile of any type you will cleary see it hit the ship. If the devs agreed that the missiles don't actually hit the ship and detonate so may meters from the ship then the animation for that should have been fixed to go along with that. And the same gose for any other weapon fire you see it hit the target but it still comes up as you missed it. But as I was getting to in my original post I played back in the day when everything was lolly pops and gum drops. And now I come back to a game were you actually have to put some math into it to be accurate. Thank you for taking time to answer to my post.
Teles666	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:54:00 - [8] I'd actually like that - see a large explosion, pretty graphics and all that. As it is now if I'm flying by and there's a fight 200km away I get explosions on my ship!
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.18 16:57:00 - [9] WTS: Cruise missle kestrel loaded with 4 explosive cruise missles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.10.18 17:00:00 - [10] Back then you flew 2 kinds of frigates: - anything that could chuck out cruise missiles (kestrel/breacher) - anything that could outrun the missiles and occasionally fire back Ships like incursus, and similar were hopeless.
Dark Falz	Posted - 2005.10.18 18:29:00 - [11] Edited by: Dark Falz on 18/10/2005 18:36:17 I would like to see those days come back. Were its not all about the sgi radius of the ship but if your ship can out run it then after awhile people will finally get smart enough to relaize that they can out run a big bulky missile and live to see another day. Not just let the damn thing hit you for 24.5 dmg and go full bore to the bs and start pumling it with rockets. These missiles need to live upto their description: inferno torpedo: An ultra-heavy unguided plasma missile. Slow and dumb but its sheer damage potential is simply staggering. were dose it tell you guys not ment for small ships??? paradise cruise missile : Extra heavy assault missile. The mother of all missiles, the Paradise delivers a tremendous payload, guaranteed to get its victims acquainted with their personal god in a quick, but painful manner. Again were dose it tell you not intended for small ships??? widowmaker heavy missile: Heavy assault missile. Originally designed as a 'finisher' - the killing blow to a crippled ship - the Widowmaker has since gone through various technological upgrades. The latest version has a lighter payload than the original, but much improved guidance systems. flameburst light missile: Light assault missile. The explosion the Flameburst missile creates upon impact is stunning enough for any display of fireworks - just ten times more deadly. Its warhead's primary function is to destroy shields. I don't see nothing unbalanced about it a small ship useing a big missile. While we are at it why don't we make it so that big ships can't use small missiles. But the fact should be if you can out run it then you can live to see another day. Thats if you don't get chased down by whoever is hunting you. I'm sorry if this comes off as gripeing about something that happend along time ago. But the person that first said its unbalanced to have a small ship fire a big missile but big ships can fire small missiles. Then they need to be draged out into the middile of the street and shot in the head.
Nybbas	Posted - 2005.10.18 18:49:00 - [12] I remember the days in beta where it took 2 bloodclaws to down a frigate... man that was good.
Grey Area	Posted - 2005.10.18 18:52:00 - [13] Three possibilities here; 1. You've been away from EVE for a very long time, have just come back, and are struggling to adjust. 2. You're a shameless troll 3. You're twelve years old. Or any combination of the above... What was imbalanced about it was making the Kestrel the most damaging ship in the game...better than the Raven which was a whole size class above it. The adjustments were well intentioned, but in my opinion have gone a bit too far. That said, if it's a choice between THEN and NOW, I'll choose NOW every time. If you think that means I don't use missiles, suggest you read a few of my old posts. ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * =========================================
Brisi	Posted - 2005.10.18 18:59:00 - [14] God, this has been beaten to death over and over again. This is the way it is now, it's not going back. Adapt or quit.
CiaCheCait	Posted - 2005.10.18 19:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Dark Falz inferno torpedo: An ultra-heavy unguided plasma missile. Slow and dumb but its sheer damage potential is simply staggering. were dose it tell you guys not ment for small ships??? paradise cruise missile : Extra heavy assault missile. The mother of all missiles, the Paradise delivers a tremendous payload, guaranteed to get its victims acquainted with their personal god in a quick, but painful manner. Again were dose it tell you not intended for small ships??? Same as you can tell how well a turret will track and hit a smaller ship, by looking under the "Attributes" tab. Back in the day when everyone who had played more than 30 days could simply target, orbit, and pres F1-F8, go grab lunch and come back to a toasted enemy BS, I took the time to learn how to use turrets effectively and how larger guns were less effective against smaller ships. Thing is, CCP didn't just nerf missiles, they balanced the game. They made it so it required more skills to use missiles as effectivly as turrets. Same way it had been with turrets for far longer. I'm sorry your torps don't do as much damage as they used to against interceptors, but I believe the missile nerf was necessary to make any other ship besides the Raven a viable option.
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.10.18 19:49:00 - [16] Originally by: CiaCheCait Same as you can tell how well a turret will track and hit a smaller ship, by looking under the "Attributes" tab. Back in the day when everyone who had played more than 30 days could simply target, orbit, and pres F1-F8, go grab lunch and come back to a toasted enemy BS, I took the time to learn how to use turrets effectively and how larger guns were less effective against smaller ships. Thing is, CCP didn't just nerf missiles, they balanced the game. They made it so it required more skills to use missiles as effectivly as turrets. Same way it had been with turrets for far longer. I'm sorry your torps don't do as much damage as they used to against interceptors, but I believe the missile nerf was necessary to make any other ship besides the Raven a viable option. Thats kinda the problem, now just a couple of points. 1. Yes a change was required, I agree with that. 2. Against smaller ships larger missiles just suck, no ifs, no buts...But it is possable to get a single salvo kill with large turrets not with missiles. so not the same. 3. I pretty much only fly a harpy, sometimes a mega at the moment used to fly a raven lot in against some NPC frigs and cruisers. I am trying not to base my opinion on what i found flying the raven before it went pop but on what happens when people throw EM missiles at my harpy if its not a light missile I don't care... "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
Axle skye	Posted - 2005.10.18 20:30:00 - [17] The thing that I miss the most was being able to load different missiles in one launcher based on volume. sometimes rockets, sometimes smalls, sometimes heavies, sometimes cruise. But back then a full loadout of cruise missiles cost more than the kessie. and you could fit a heavy on either a tristan or merlin w/ the lows filled w/ mapcs. couldn't fit much else, not very effective either.
Fuazzole	Posted - 2005.10.18 21:01:00 - [18] Originally by: DrunkenOne frigs could never fit heavy missile launchers. Cruise used to fit in standard launchers, and torps in heavy launchers. As to why they changed it? Cause they changed everything that was fun. Although it was crazy unbalanced . im sure pre-nerf many T1 frig's could fit a heavy launcher
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.18 21:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Fuazzole Originally by: DrunkenOne frigs could never fit heavy missile launchers. Cruise used to fit in standard launchers, and torps in heavy launchers. As to why they changed it? Cause they changed everything that was fun. Although it was crazy unbalanced . im sure pre-nerf many T1 frig's could fit a heavy launcher as old missle abuser I have to say: nope heavy launchers were never fitted to frigs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.18 21:17:00 - [20] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/10/2005 21:18:45 A large missile is meant to track battleships, not small ships--same with guns. A torpedo will not be able to track the tiny sig radius of a frigate, and thus will detonate far away. The frigate of course will easily shrug off the minimal blast wave. My megabeams completely miss frigates at any range, just like your torps do no damage. Finally, guns are balanced with missiles. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.18 21:42:00 - [21] Heh. There WAS another alternative back then. They could of introduced true point defence. I'm guessing there were lag factors which prevented it. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Janneman	Posted - 2005.10.18 21:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Gary Goat Oh god not another one. Basicly missiles do not hit ships, they just detonate close to the ships. Scince large missiles are less agile then small missiles, they detonate further away from the ship. If you look at the stats on the missiles, there is an explosion velosity which is the speed of the explosion from the point of detonation. If the ship is flying faster then this speed, it will take significantly less damage as it will be right on the edge of the explosion radius. Linkage From that picture you can see that the large missile only gets a small portion of the small ship, therefore doing much less damage then the small missile where the whole ship is within the explosion radius. guns have the ability to do wrecking damage, indicating a direct hit. so, now missiles detonate close to ships, give them the ability (or chance) to hit them directly. better yet, have the distance the missile detonates from the ship (and thus the delivered damage) be determined by chance (influenced by ship speed & missile class) and skill (missile accuracy skill). from now on you won't have the annoying "hits for 3.1 damage" but a varying damage for each missile hit. Not every missile hits the same way in real life, it shouldnt in eve either.
Alberta	Posted - 2005.10.18 21:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Luc Boye Back then you flew 2 kinds of frigates: - anything that could chuck out cruise missiles (kestrel/breacher) - anything that could outrun the missiles and occasionally fire back Ships like incursus, and similar were hopeless. Actually, the Incursus was one of the ones that could outrun cruise. My Thoughts on Game Balance
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol	Posted - 2005.10.18 22:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Gary Goat Oh god not another one. Basicly missiles do not hit ships, they just detonate close to the ships. Scince large missiles are less agile then small missiles, they detonate further away from the ship. If you look at the stats on the missiles, there is an explosion velosity which is the speed of the explosion from the point of detonation. If the ship is flying faster then this speed, it will take significantly less damage as it will be right on the edge of the explosion radius. Linkage From that picture you can see that the large missile only gets a small portion of the small ship, therefore doing much less damage then the small missile where the whole ship is within the explosion radius. why is the small frig so far away from the explosion? --------------------------------------------- Signature filesize exceeded. Maximum sig size is 400*120 and 24000 bytes - Teblin - aww come on now :(
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.10.18 22:56:00 - [25] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Originally by: Gary Goat Oh god not another one. Basicly missiles do not hit ships, they just detonate close to the ships. Scince large missiles are less agile then small missiles, they detonate further away from the ship. If you look at the stats on the missiles, there is an explosion velosity which is the speed of the explosion from the point of detonation. If the ship is flying faster then this speed, it will take significantly less damage as it will be right on the edge of the explosion radius. Linkage From that picture you can see that the large missile only gets a small portion of the small ship, therefore doing much less damage then the small missile where the whole ship is within the explosion radius. why is the small frig so far away from the explosion? explosion is so slow that she simply... ran ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Jennai	Posted - 2005.10.18 23:13:00 - [26] Edited by: Jennai on 18/10/2005 23:12:55 Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Fuazzole Originally by: DrunkenOne frigs could never fit heavy missile launchers. Cruise used to fit in standard launchers, and torps in heavy launchers. As to why they changed it? Cause they changed everything that was fun. Although it was crazy unbalanced . im sure pre-nerf many T1 frig's could fit a heavy launcher as old missle abuser I have to say: nope heavy launchers were never fitted to frigs when I reactivated my account in january I had a tristan with a heavy launcher, but I took it off before I found out you couldn't do that any more. I don't know exactly when that was changed, but it was some time between May and December 04. oh well, heavy missiles suck anyway.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.18 23:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Jennai Edited by: Jennai on 18/10/2005 23:12:55 Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Fuazzole Originally by: DrunkenOne frigs could never fit heavy missile launchers. Cruise used to fit in standard launchers, and torps in heavy launchers. As to why they changed it? Cause they changed everything that was fun. Although it was crazy unbalanced . im sure pre-nerf many T1 frig's could fit a heavy launcher as old missle abuser I have to say: nope heavy launchers were never fitted to frigs when I reactivated my account in january I had a tristan with a heavy launcher, but I took it off before I found out you couldn't do that any more. I don't know exactly when that was changed, but it was some time between May and December 04. oh well, heavy missiles suck anyway. I play since 2003, and my kestrel is probably from dezember 2003. Dunno if you fitted a heavy launcher on your tristan, but normaly you fitted standard launchers and cruise missles torps used to have a huge explosion radius, giving you a good chance to pod yourself with those things. Cruise missles only had 500m explosion radius -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Jennai	Posted - 2005.10.18 23:18:00 - [28] Edited by: Jennai on 18/10/2005 23:18:23 I only played a two week trial back then so I didn't really know what I was doing, and I didn't have the skills for cruise so heavy was the best I could do. torp/cruise with explosion radius must have been tons of fun in empire wars
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.10.19 04:56:00 - [29] I still have a Kestrel full of Widowmakers (wish I'd used Scourge, I was such a noob) in one of my hangars. Every now and then I activate it and reminisce. Of course, I can't use it or I'd get banned for 'sploiting, not that it matters much when I have a Manticore/ -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Justin Cody	Posted - 2005.10.19 05:09:00 - [30] I remember those days when my Moa could chuck torps. Ah yes and the CAracal with torps was uber..aside from you could only launch 10 without reloading...but I like the way missiles are now. I don't mind training up the skills a bit...I have done it with lasers and hybrids so no biggie. Kestrels still rock even solo... warp scram...AB II and sensor damp to give you time to close...Rockets rock by the way...oh yes they do0000 seek the setup and ye shall find it "Ill armed and half starved, they were still desperate men, to whom danger had lost all fears: for what was death that they should shun it to cling to such a life as theirs?"--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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