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Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 14:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
With all these discussions (CCP and Players) about how to get more people to 0.0 I have yet to see a reason why this is so important.
Other then the blanket EVE-online would be better off with more subscriptions. The question is;
Why do we need more people in. 1. High-sec 2. Low-sec 3. 0.0 4. WH-Space 5. If the object is to remove people from another section of space then why do we need less in that part of space ? 6. Wouldn't it be better to get new players to populate these regions rather then to force existing players to shift ?
Kind of hard to propose a fix if nobody has defined the problem. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
16
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Problem of high-sec: there is nothing to shoot, ransom, grief, etc..... Problem of low-sec: there is nothing to shoot, ransom, grief, etc..... Problem of 0.0: there is nothing to shoot, ransom, grief, etc..... |
Dalek Commander
Lorentzian Traversable Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
The great circle of life in eve is why you need more people in lowsec and nullsec.
Without conflict the markets will plummet in recession. It is in the best interest of everyone in eve for there to be conflict in lowsec/nullsec and even worm space. The best way to ensure conflict is inevitable is to make it desirable for new people to go to these places and try and kick out the people who currently live there.
Eve is at its heart a PVP game with a market driven by this. |
Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
6
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Simetraz wrote: Wouldn't it be better to get new players to populate these regions rather then to force existing players to shift ?
Depending on the region in question... no. Most new players cannot just go straight out and populate WH space and 0.0, there is a great learning curve first of all, and the skill and ISK needed to be competitive in these areas as well as other barriers to entry I wont go into. New players will generally gravitate to high-sec and to a lesser degree low-sec. In order to increase the population in WH and 0.0 space it is the older, more experienced people living in high-sec at the moment that need to move.
That said, forcing players to shift is not desirable. There needs to be enough of a gameplay driver that people want to move to these areas and that new players see these getting to these areas as goals that they can reach. Blacklight Incorporated - Recruiting now for Industry, PvP and PvE |
Barakkus
855
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because: 1. Highsec is overcrowded. 2. Lowsec is kind of under populated. 3. Most of nullsec is just completely empty. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 15:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dalek Commander wrote:The great circle of life in eve is why you need more people in lowsec and nullsec.
Without conflict the markets will plummet in recession. It is in the best interest of everyone in eve for there to be conflict in lowsec/nullsec and even worm space. The best way to ensure conflict is inevitable is to make it desirable for new people to go to these places and try and kick out the people who currently live there.
Eve is at its heart a PVP game with a market driven by this.
I would like to add, targeting high-sec players in order to boost the economy is total ass. How about the 0.0 people actually get a decent war going? It's a ******* NAP fest out there. Kill a couple hundred supers and see what happens.
I think we need to encourage the people in low/null to go murder each other. Instead of sending a carebear to go get ****** sideways by a hotdrop. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
1. High-sec overpopulated ?, are there people waiting in line ? 2. lowsec empty, why is this a problem. 3. 0.0 Every last bit of 0.0 has SOV on it, how can it be empty, and again why is that a problem.
The number of people in each section is the result. But what is the inherent reason, why do the players and CCP want to redistribute everyone ?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
663
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 15:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote: I would like to add, targeting high-sec players in order to boost the economy is total ass. How about the 0.0 people actually get a decent war going? It's a ******* NAP fest out there. Kill a couple hundred supers and see what happens.
I think we need to encourage the people in low/null to go murder each other. Instead of sending a carebear to go get ****** sideways by a hotdrop.
This answers the OPs question in a nutshell.
What happens in 0.0 drives a great deal of what happens in hi-sec. The demand for ice products, ships, faction ammo, etc etc, comes from 0.0 out of all proportion to the relative population. When the inhabitants of 0.0 don't feel that it's worth fighting in battleships and capitals, hi-sec suffers from the drop in demand. A boost to activity in 0.0 is therefore a boost to the hi-sec economy
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 15:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Igualmentedos wrote: I would like to add, targeting high-sec players in order to boost the economy is total ass. How about the 0.0 people actually get a decent war going? It's a ******* NAP fest out there. Kill a couple hundred supers and see what happens.
I think we need to encourage the people in low/null to go murder each other. Instead of sending a carebear to go get ****** sideways by a hotdrop.
This answers the OPs question in a nutshell. What happens in 0.0 drives a great deal of what happens in hi-sec. The demand for ice products, ships, faction ammo, etc etc, comes from 0.0 out of all proportion to the relative population. When the inhabitants of 0.0 don't feel that it's worth fighting in battleships and capitals, hi-sec suffers from the drop in demand. A boost to activity in 0.0 is therefore a boost to the hi-sec economy
So what are saying is that redistributing people is not the problem at all, but the problem is that the players in 0.0 are stagnate and dead ?
Which means we are back to square one why try and redistribute the player base with new players in 0.0. They are not going to miraculously dispose of the existing alliances.
All you going to do is add more people to go there and die of boredom and quit. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
74
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 15:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Malcanis wrote:Igualmentedos wrote: I would like to add, targeting high-sec players in order to boost the economy is total ass. How about the 0.0 people actually get a decent war going? It's a ******* NAP fest out there. Kill a couple hundred supers and see what happens.
I think we need to encourage the people in low/null to go murder each other. Instead of sending a carebear to go get ****** sideways by a hotdrop.
This answers the OPs question in a nutshell. What happens in 0.0 drives a great deal of what happens in hi-sec. The demand for ice products, ships, faction ammo, etc etc, comes from 0.0 out of all proportion to the relative population. When the inhabitants of 0.0 don't feel that it's worth fighting in battleships and capitals, hi-sec suffers from the drop in demand. A boost to activity in 0.0 is therefore a boost to the hi-sec economy So what are saying is that redistributing people is not the problem at all, but the problem is that the players in 0.0 are stagnate and dead ? Which means we are back to square one why try and redistribute the player base with new players in 0.0. They are not going to miraculously dispose of the existing alliances. All you going to do is add more people to go there and die of boredom and quit.
Agreed.
Also: There is no valid reason to push players anywhere they do not want to be. |
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Mechanoid Kryten
N0VA 5
11
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think we need to get more people in a solar system called Cat. What can ccp do to get more people interested in going there? What rocks are the most isk per hour to mine? Which of your mission loot is worth more refined than sold? What blue prints make the most proffit? Answers: https://eve-industrialist.com/ Never sell an item for less than its mineral costs again! |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because Hisec online is not a viable game. Hisec exists because the rest of the game exists. If people aren't transitioning out of hisec, then those other areas will die. When those other areas die, the entire game will follow.
People who are trying to frame this as pushing fodder out for massive nullsec alliances are engaged in a farcically childish narrative. The problem is that CCP as designers and we as a community are failing to provide the proper transitioning environment to get people out of level 4 hubs and hisec belts and into the game the vast majority originally signed on to play.
The incredibly advanced gameplay that is singular to Eve comes with huge barriers to transitioning new people into it. As I've said before, nobody gives a **** about the people who will never under any circumstances venture beyond level 4 missions; the issue is the huge number of players who are finding the transitioning too intimidating or difficult.
The proper way to conceive of this issue is transitions, transitions, and transitions. If this isn't how you're framing the discourse, then you're pissing in the wind. |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
3
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Posted - 2011.10.20 16:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Actually No one but Devs with BJS from RMTERs in o.o care about null sec and low sec... Eves bills are paid with high sec players... Sucks dont it hahahaha |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
bilingi wrote: Eves bills are paid with high sec players... Sucks dont it hahahaha
Hisec players who wouldn't exist if the game's selling point beyond hisec didn't exist.
I dare the tiny vocal minority of committed Hisec Onliners to impede efforts to better balance transitions in this game. I will happily watch this whole game crumble just to laugh in your faces in smug satisfaction.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
131
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Haters gona hate
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Reislier
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 16:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
High-sec and null-sec are two distinct games. Some transitioning may occur but a glance at the Eve map suggests that not that much. It has always been so.. at least it has been in my 5+ years in Eve.
ItGÇÖs two games.
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Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
16
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Posted - 2011.10.20 16:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is no reason to push anyone anywhere. If you like the safety and PvE of High-Sec, great.
What there IS cause for is a proper balance of Risk vs. Reward.
I would never see a high-sec player should be forced to move to low or null sec.
I WOULD say that the rewards for choosing to live in High-Sec should be lower than those of low and null sec.
Mission all day if you prefer that, don;t interact with anyone if thats your game. I respect that.
Just don't expect your Missions to reward you the same as a player living in 0.0
That would be like a solo player in WoW grinding Boars expecting teh same loot drops as the raiding guilds beating teh enwest content. |
Lharanai
Empyrean Guard Seventh Vanguard
14
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Posted - 2011.10.20 16:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
as mentioned in another thread
Lharanai wrote:I see really one problem, all the rest is just mechanics.
Many players just don't want to be part of a mega alliance (including being a renter), but there is no way to defend your investment in null, if you are not in a big alliance or a renter.
Make null defendable for smaller groups and there will be a rush to null Touch my **** and I will **** your **** with an rusty **** and **** into your ****, and then I will **** your **** until you ******************** |
Barakkus
856
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 16:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:1. High-sec overpopulated ?, are there people waiting in line ? 2. lowsec empty, why is this a problem. 3. 0.0 Every last bit of 0.0 has SOV on it, how can it be empty, and again why is that a problem.
The number of people in each section is the result. But what is the inherent reason, why do the players and CCP want to redistribute everyone ?
1. High-sec overpopulated ?, are there people waiting in line ? - yes, I've had plenty of gate control messages about traffic not letting me jump into some systems, and recently
2. lowsec empty, why is this a problem. - you must like to just sit in highsec and do nothing but make more and more isk for no actual reason other than to have more isk, makes for a really boring game...
3. 0.0 Every last bit of 0.0 has SOV on it, how can it be empty, and again why is that a problem. - um there are large portions of nullsec you can't take sov in...if you jump into a system and there is no one in local but you, I would call that empty, most of nullsec is like that... |
Joan Avon
The 0rigin
2
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
I've never understood why so much of Null sec is empty and unused. Why take sov in systems you/your members arn't bothering to use/harvest/build up. |
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David Carel
44
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Either for jump bridges or as a way to say "This space is ours, you're not free to do **** here, get out" |
David Carel
44
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 17:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:1. High-sec overpopulated ?, are there people waiting in line ? 2. lowsec empty, why is this a problem. 3. 0.0 Every last bit of 0.0 has SOV on it, how can it be empty, and again why is that a problem.
The number of people in each section is the result. But what is the inherent reason, why do the players and CCP want to redistribute everyone ?
Sovereignty != populated, see post above. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
171
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 18:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Because: 1. Highsec is overcrowded.- reason, there is little BS short of suicide ganks a smart player will not get killed. missions provide enough income to roam lowsec if they want or do whatever. 2. Lowsec is kind of under populated.-reason, Yarr tards shoot everything that moves, so why go there? let the rifter go, let the cruiser go, kill the freighter/orca/other ship with shiny loot. 3. Most of nullsec is just completely empty.-reason, either your on a blue continent since if u blue all of 0.0 you win eve. NPC 0.0 you can't really eject someone from that space and the bigger alliance will own all the poses lets also add the sanction nerf so huge amounts of 0.0 space are worthless
wormhole space imo is getting a litle too crowded, it seems 100% of wormholes that have highsec exits are filled, which is odd with the mystery of wormholes.
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Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 18:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Because Hisec online is not a viable game. Hisec exists because the rest of the game exists. If people aren't transitioning out of hisec, then those other areas will die. When those other areas die, the entire game will follow.
People who are trying to frame this as pushing fodder out for massive nullsec alliances are engaged in a farcically childish narrative. The problem is that CCP as designers and we as a community are failing to provide the proper transitioning environment to get people out of level 4 hubs and hisec belts and into the game the vast majority originally signed on to play.
The incredibly advanced gameplay that is singular to Eve comes with huge barriers to transitioning new people into it. As I've said before, nobody gives a **** about the people who will never under any circumstances venture beyond level 4 missions; the issue is the huge number of players who are finding the transitioning too intimidating or difficult.
The proper way to conceive of this issue is transitions, transitions, and transitions. If this isn't how you're framing the discourse, then you're pissing in the wind.
I dont think the transition is intimidating, it's a game FFS. The problem is the transition isn't fun.
Why isn't transitioning to, and eventually living in, null fun? Well, If I decide to go to null (OHGOD never again) I have a few options.
Option 1- Suck off to a giant alliance, basically become their slave for their **** empire that you couldn't care less about.
Option 2- Become a renter, which is basically option 1 with slighty more freedom.
Option 3- Push the ultra-rich power blocs out of their space. Just kidding that's virtually impossible.
IMO I think this can be fixed by making it EXTREMELY hard to hold vast amounts of space. How the hell can a 2000 man alliance hold 50 some systems (not actually numbers, just using them as an example). They should be able to hold 10 or 20 systems. Hell, I'd argue less than that would be nice.
Also, can we please significantly reduce the ability to project power (spool up times)? Jump Clones **** this up too.
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Kengutsi Akira
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 18:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Problem of high-sec: there is nothing to shoot, ransom, grief, etc..... Problem of low-sec: there is nothing to shoot, ransom, grief, etc..... Problem of 0.0: there is nothing to shoot, ransom, grief, etc.....
I really think this is the heart of "why push ppl to 0.0".
They dont want ppl in there for all the listed and various BS reasons they give, its more meat for the grinder lol
What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
667
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Elise DarkStar wrote:Because Hisec online is not a viable game. Hisec exists because the rest of the game exists. If people aren't transitioning out of hisec, then those other areas will die. When those other areas die, the entire game will follow.
People who are trying to frame this as pushing fodder out for massive nullsec alliances are engaged in a farcically childish narrative. The problem is that CCP as designers and we as a community are failing to provide the proper transitioning environment to get people out of level 4 hubs and hisec belts and into the game the vast majority originally signed on to play.
The incredibly advanced gameplay that is singular to Eve comes with huge barriers to transitioning new people into it. As I've said before, nobody gives a **** about the people who will never under any circumstances venture beyond level 4 missions; the issue is the huge number of players who are finding the transitioning too intimidating or difficult.
The proper way to conceive of this issue is transitions, transitions, and transitions. If this isn't how you're framing the discourse, then you're pissing in the wind. I dont think the transition is intimidating, it's a game FFS. The problem is the transition isn't fun. Why isn't transitioning to, and eventually living in, null fun? Well, If I decide to go to null (OHGOD never again) I have a few options. Option 1- Suck off to a giant alliance, basically become their slave for their **** empire that you couldn't care less about. Option 2- Become a renter, which is basically option 1 with slighty more freedom. Option 3- Push the ultra-rich power blocs out of their space. Just kidding that's virtually impossible. IMO I think this can be fixed by making it EXTREMELY hard to hold vast amounts of space. How the hell can a 2000 man alliance hold 50 some systems (not actually numbers, just using them as an example). They should be able to hold 10 or 20 systems. Hell, I'd argue less than that would be nice. Also, can we please significantly reduce the ability to project power (spool up times)? Jump Clones **** this up too.
Speaking as someone who has lived in 0.0 for most of his EVE career, I can tell you that you're missing a few options from the 0.0 menu. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Cailais
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
71
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 18:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
The primary reason to encourage players from Empire to Null is because Null sec is an area of 'Player Generated Content'.
In other words it simply requires less development time to sustain over protracted periods: whereas players may, in theory, exhaust the content of NPC space - these players in turn get bored and, if not given more goodies, leave the game.
Null Sec's promise was that it would create infinite new content in terms of player interaction and contest - a constantly fluid and exciting dynamic.
The lack of new players to null sec has meant it has become stagnant and old - effectively creating an EVE in stasis.
C. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
71
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 18:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cailais wrote:The primary reason to encourage players from Empire to Null is because Null sec is an area of 'Player Generated Content'.
In other words it simply requires less development time to sustain over protracted periods: whereas players may, in theory, exhaust the content of NPC space - these players in turn get bored and, if not given more goodies, leave the game.
Null Sec's promise was that it would create infinite new content in terms of player interaction and contest - a constantly fluid and exciting dynamic.
The lack of new players to null sec has meant it has become stagnant and old - effectively creating an EVE in stasis.
C.
This. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
81
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 18:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Because: 1. Highsec is overcrowded. Cos most of them hate 0.0, dont want to rent, or recently got evicted
Barakkus wrote: 2. Lowsec is kind of under populated.
Because it is mostly full of douche bags that kill cyno alts & haulers all day so why bother to go there in unarmed/poorly armed ships knowing some douchebag will gank them. And there is no way to defend themselves. The reward is not worth the risk in low sec........ roids are just as crap as high sec. missions sites are camped by pirates.
Barakkus wrote: 3. Most of nullsec is just completely empty.
Except for all those blobs, supercap blobs, and bots. Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 19:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:[ Speaking as someone who has lived in 0.0 for most of his EVE career, I can tell you that you're missing a few options from the 0.0 menu.
Such as? |
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