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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
6022
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Have another change for Odyssey to announce to you fine people in Science and Industry. When I was working on mapping out the usage of all the moon minerals for the T2 manufacturing rebalance, I took the chance to clean up the usage of T2 composites and construction components. There were a few T1 items that use them, as well as a number of faction items that had T2 build requirements by mistake (the original design for the navy faction modules was for them to have T1-style build requirements, but when creating many of them the original designers seem to have copied the T2 blueprints instead).
This affects many Faction Modules that have had the T2 materials and skills removed from the blueprint requirements.
This also affects the following T1 modules: All T1 gang links Command processors Prototype cloaking devices Warp disrupt probes These T1 blueprints have had their composite requirements replaced mainly with planetary interaction products, and in the case of the Warp disrupt probes, more Stront.
The full requirements for all these blueprints can be found on SISI, so if you are in the business of building these items you will want to take a look there for the changes ans prepare accordingly. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Strata Maslav
Born-2-Kill 0utNumbered
60
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Another common sense change from uncle Fozzie!
Thanks for all the hard you work you've been putting into this expansion and game we love! |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
366
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
272
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
This change is a nice little sensible upgrade to production. +1. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Minimax Zed
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fozzie, does this include blueprint copy requirements as well as build requirements? Wondering if Data Sheets will still be needed to make copies of a protocloak BPO.
Thanks! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1433
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules.
I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Sarmatiko
1123
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Great news! At last Fed Navy Stasis Webifier blueprint will be fixed \o/
Steve Ronuken wrote:I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual. QFT.
But with archeology changes in Odyssey, I wonder - how this affect storyline components drop rate? I hope this hasn't slipped from developer's view (and epic arc missions that require hacking\archeology also)
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
6027
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Storyline modules are on our big list of modules we need to look at and make some sense of.
As for the proto cloak copy requirements, I'll admit I completely overlooked them in the first pass. I'll see what I can do, but assuming we decide to remove those (no promises, yada yada) it may end up not getting done until after Odyssey at this point. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
817
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules. I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual. nope, it's the crazy cost of parts. check jita price on those sometime. there's countless bpc's rotting in hangars |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
192
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
WILL THIS RESULT IN CHEAPER ITEMS TO BUY 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?-á ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high |
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1047
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Posted - 2013.05.21 20:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Will this be applied to the 'Augmented' drone group, they are essentially Faction T2 drones? Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Unit758
Frontier Drive Yards Enemy-Fleet
0
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Posted - 2013.05.21 21:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Somewhat off topic, but still related. Whats the deal with "Extra Materials" not being affected by player skills and ME levels? Is this intentional, or an over site? |
Kellaen
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.21 21:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Unit758 wrote:Somewhat off topic, but still related. Whats the deal with "Extra Materials" not being affected by player skills and ME levels? Is this intentional, or an over site? It's to prevent pre-patch hoarding of ships / items to refine post patch and gain minerals 'out of thin air'.
It's a sloppy fix to a problem they could otherwise avoid with a single database field, and hopefully down the road will be revisted and changed. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
817
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Posted - 2013.05.21 21:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
it was a good idea for massive changes like procurers but for the relatively middling stuff it's starting to destroy reprocessing as a useful market correction mechanism |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
908
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Posted - 2013.05.21 21:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:extra materials for changes was a good idea for massive changes like procurers but for the relatively middling stuff it's starting to destroy reprocessing as a useful market correction mechanism for a relatively minor market protection
Foreshadowing up in dis thread Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
621
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Posted - 2013.05.22 13:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 for "Da Fozz" and his good work driven by common sense.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
366
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Posted - 2013.05.22 13:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Storyline modules are on our big list of modules we need to look at and make some sense of.
As for the proto cloak copy requirements, I'll admit I completely overlooked them in the first pass. I'll see what I can do, but assuming we decide to remove those (no promises, yada yada) it may end up not getting done until after Odyssey at this point.
It would be good if storyline module bpcs dropped from storyline missions, not just the DED missions. Inventory could be controlled by the faction, frequency, and quality of the prints.
As for how to balance them, that's a trickier proposition. At meta 6, it feels like they should be better than T2, but that necessitates them to be more expensive. Possibly a flat change to copy the T2 modules with a 5% CPU and grid reduction across the board? Manufacturing cost of T2 + 25% as a target? Storyline would be the way to go for an easy fit, but module quantity would not be infinite.
The prints definitely need to be modified to something that's cheap and plentiful, rather than using the same decryptors as present. The starting options there I see are exploration drops, salvage, gas, ice, or PI. Mining, moons, and wormholes are already dedicated to other tech levels. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
16
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Posted - 2013.05.22 14:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Personally I feel storyline modules acquired via COSMOS missions BPC's should all have better stats and lower CPU/PG usage than their T2 variants. At present some storyline modules are stronger than their T2 variants but the majority are same-ish or weaker. The COSMOS missions can only be completed once per char and coupled with the difficulty, more so since the improved AI, along with the rarity of some drops results in some ridiculous prices for some materials/parts. I suspect some of these parts are listed but never sell on the market. On the other hand I don't think the storyline modules or other better quality modules should be easily available or commonplace. It shouldn't be made a God-given right to be able to acquire these items. If they are revised and all made better quality than T2 modules than they obviously should retail at higher prices. |
Savira Terrant
N0IR.
28
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Posted - 2013.05.22 20:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hey Fozzy,
I would like to copy and paste part of my (edited) post from elswhere regarding module schemes:
Quote:I think meta items should have less fitting requirements (but more cap use?), but less bonus. T2 should have superior bonus with a bit more fitting than T1 (non meta). Faction should have either even less fitting requirements then meta with a T2 bonus or a even more superior bonus than T2 with T2 fitting requirements, preferably I should be forced and able to choose between them. Deadspace should combine both superior fitting and bonus obviously with even more of a pricetag (that already is the case for most deadspace stuff.) And officer can do anything (e.g. I like that officer webs have a superior range bonus to everything else but require a huge amount of pg when all the other only need 1 unit). Then there is storyline, I don't really know what to do with this. E.g. before the T2 plates where buffed, the storyline plate had the same attributes as T2, but with an even more extreme fitting benefit than the meta plate. Looking at what I would wish for faction, this might be reduntant for storyline now. On the other hand, it could be made in a way (staying with the example of the plates here) that while the faction plates would require less CPU only - for ships that have plenty pg,but are tight on CPU like most Amarr ships - the storyline would have T2 bonuses with less pg requirement - for ships that were not really desinged to fit armor buffer tanks, but have plenty CPU like ewar ships that need plenty midslots to fill their role effectively. This sheme could be kept up for all other storyline modules also.
Having such a defined sheme for all module types also makes it easier to add new modules to fill non-existing module types for a specific module (e.g. deadspace for armor plates etc.) should that be desired in the future (you know you want it :P).
Well that was my idea for module schemes. Depending on how the balancing is tackled to this regard, the (build) prices should end up accordingly. E.g. storyline modules still more expensive than T2, but not discouraging to use. I made good use of the a storyline armor plate on my PVE Rapier, but prices would be out of question for PVP. . |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
646
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Posted - 2013.05.23 14:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules. I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual. nope, it's the crazy cost of parts. check jita price on those sometime. there's countless bpc's rotting in hangars Finally a point we agree on.
I my self have several copies on almost all the storyline BPC's. But the components to make them also drop in COSMOS sites, and are even more rare than the items needed for the COSMOS missions.
If I ever do get these items I still don't build with them as they are worth so much to sell. The storyline items are nice only in that they have very low fitting requirements. but they are just not worth the current cost. I have a few storyline items I use, but they are ones that were handed out as modules not built from BPC's. |
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
950
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Posted - 2013.05.24 11:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Very nice change. Always confused me why some items were like that.
I would like to see what you intend to do about Augmented drones though...they use a T2 drone to make.
Oh and can you add a Faction Ore Survey Scanner with 35km range please! Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Lyza Kimbo
Cat Scratch Fever
11
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Posted - 2013.05.28 17:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules. I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual. nope, it's the crazy cost of parts. check jita price on those sometime. there's countless bpc's rotting in hangars
Christ, I'm actually in agreement with a goon. Quick, somebody check outside for flying pigs...
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Lyza Kimbo
Cat Scratch Fever
11
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Posted - 2013.05.28 17:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Personally I feel storyline modules acquired via COSMOS missions BPC's should all have better stats and lower CPU/PG usage than their T2 variants. At present some storyline modules are stronger than their T2 variants but the majority are same-ish or weaker. The COSMOS missions can only be completed once per char and coupled with the difficulty, more so since the improved AI, along with the rarity of some drops results in some ridiculous prices for some materials/parts. I suspect some of these parts are listed but never sell on the market. On the other hand I don't think the storyline modules or other better quality modules should be easily available or commonplace. It shouldn't be made a God-given right to be able to acquire these items. If they are revised and all made better quality than T2 modules than they obviously should retail at higher prices.
Oh, yes! This, exactly.
A neat summary of exactly how I feel on the subject.
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Arcanum Arcanorum
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries Preatoriani
3
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Posted - 2013.06.03 19:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Very nice change. Always confused me why some items were like that. Oh and can you add a Faction Ore Survey Scanner with 35km range please!
+1 to this |
Tarendar
Sparkle Pony Inc Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
26
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Posted - 2013.06.04 23:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
While you're in there, you might take a pass at looking for the few items left that require NPC-only trade goods to manufacture, just because. The one that I personally know about is the Deep Core Mining Laser I, which requires Electronics Parts--- could swap that out for Miniature Electronics, no problem. I don't know if there are more, but that's why you look, isn't it? |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Outreach Center H-K Industries
7
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Posted - 2013.06.18 07:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tarendar wrote:While you're in there, you might take a pass at looking for the few items left that require NPC-only trade goods to manufacture, just because. The one that I personally know about is the Deep Core Mining Laser I, which requires Electronics Parts--- could swap that out for Miniature Electronics, no problem. I don't know if there are more, but that's why you look, isn't it?
I agree. n++[ 2013.05.17 22:06:44 ] Josh Fehrnah > Coffee Rocks you are also kos [ 2013.05.17 22:15:07 ] Captain Karrzaka > I luv coffee :P
Twitter: @thecoffeerocks Steam: CoffeeRocks |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1123
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Posted - 2013.06.21 17:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Will this be applied to the 'Augmented' drone group, they are essentially Faction T2 drones?
From the RP standpoint they should be faction... Drone faction unless Drones have access to Moon goo? Therefore less T2 materials? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
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