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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.08.04 14:45:00 -
[1]
This is the biggest PvP killer in the game at the moment. Someone undocks, immune, jumps into system, immune, engages warp, immune, exits warp, immune. There are precious few moments when people arrive together that anyone isn't immune.
As I understand it this system is a hacky fix for the problem of synchronising everyone's clients. However there are better ways to do this - even though the client can't say when its ready due to cheating possibilities, the server can have a pretty good idea when its finished sending the data and estimate from there.
Or just reduce it a little, so there's at least 3 secs or so between undocking and engaging warp when someone can actually lock you. At the moment its trivially easy to come and go from a station with no fear of anyone being able to target you. This has to be wrong.
This would go much further to fixing PvP than the station/gate lockdown changes IMHO.
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.08.04 14:50:00 -
[2]
I could not agree more. The immunity timers are absurd right now.
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Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.08.04 14:50:00 -
[3]
You cant get rid of the 10sec immunity because of the need to sync various peoples clients and stuff.
I was one of the primary reasons why the 10 second delay went in. In beta I would sit there and attack people at gates/warp in points and they would be dead in most cases, before even their screens loaded. The 10 sec delay is a necessary evil sadly :-(
Stav
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"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Kaito'Li
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Posted - 2003.08.04 15:00:00 -
[4]
Yes, er, great Idea...
or not.
I think you are kind of exaggerating a bit there mate, its not quite as bad as you make out. I mean, there is LOTS of PvP going on, can't you see that? It would drive away soooo many people if it went back to how it was in Beta, people bit the dust before they could even see what was going.
It makes me laugh that most pirates go round killing indiscriminately and STILL want more ways to make killing easier. Setec, that would be you matey. At least Stavros has the grace to admit it as being necessary.
Confucius he say, "Bugger this, I'm off for a beer" |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.08.04 15:04:00 -
[5]
w3rd Kaito 
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Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Main
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Posted - 2003.08.04 15:13:00 -
[6]
The clientside information should be loaded during the warp process rather then after...it is just a serious error in ccp's game design i think. Whether they can fix it or not, i have no idea.
Main
Everlasting Vendetta Veteran
Member of the Stain Alliance |
Siris
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Posted - 2003.08.04 15:48:00 -
[7]
what stavros said.
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loci
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Posted - 2003.08.04 15:49:00 -
[8]
what Siris said
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.08.04 16:08:00 -
[9]
Stav, yeah I kind of covered that objection in the original post. It does need fixing but there are better ways.
Also 10 secs seems ridiculously long - people can undock, sail away from the station, and you can't lock them. Then there's a tiny window when you can initiate a lock before they start warping, and then they're outta there.
If you _must_ have an immunity delay why not just make sure there's a window when you can get locked. I.e. after undocking or leaving warp you're immune for 10 secs as usual, but you can't then re-engage warp for say a further 3 secs, so if you do arrive among hostile forces you can't just leave unless you have a warp core stabilizer.
Seems reasonable to me.
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Erty
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Posted - 2003.08.04 16:09:00 -
[10]
Main well that would be nice, but then you would be able to cheat. If the information about objects was loaded during warp someone would program a cheat so you could see how many players there are (and who they are), what asteroids there are or how many pirates...etc. And that wouldn't be nice imo :)
This is my signature. |
Thaddius Engle
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Posted - 2003.08.04 16:10:00 -
[11]
Yeah, the 10 second timer helps, sometimes the client takes longer than that to load.
For the PvP crowd the upcoming MWD nerf will make it harder to run blocades. |
Aeryn
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Posted - 2003.08.04 16:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aeryn on 04/08/2003 16:26:22
Could the client cough meaningfully at the servers when it's finished loading stuff, and then drop the immunity?
With the changes to starting modules after warp, maybe this could be used to set when they can be started too.
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Guardian334
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Posted - 2003.08.04 16:32:00 -
[13]
So you want it to be easy and foolproof to screw over victims? People should have no way to leave?
No. Increasing PVP and forcing it on people is not the answer to YOUR boredom.
Go hunt pirates if you want challenge.
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Lao Tzu
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Posted - 2003.08.04 17:15:00 -
[14]
"Increasing PVP and forcing it on people is not the answer to YOUR boredom."
Commnts like that make me twitch for the 'open vote' button. 
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Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.08.04 17:17:00 -
[15]
We went pirate hunting, they ran.
"KekeKuKu".
-Necro
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:06:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
So you want it to be easy and foolproof to screw over victims? People should have no way to leave?
No. Increasing PVP and forcing it on people is not the answer to YOUR boredom.
Go hunt pirates if you want challenge.
I want it so that if someone undocks or warps to where I am, and I have a warp scrambler and they don't have a warp core stabiliser, then I get a chance to shoot at them.
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Shollos
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Shollos on 04/08/2003 19:11:19
I hate to say it (since it would increase my kills a hundred fold) but i think the timers need to stay, theres just too many times when you lag or are slow loading that the timers protect you from dying..
I know i could get a ton more kills if the timers were taken out, but I dont think they should be
edit- although the *20* second immunity undocking should probally be cut to 10.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:14:00 -
[18]
Here's what you don't realize - just because you see a ship, doesn't mean the player has control of it. And in the case of undocking/entering space, that person has a black screen.
I've timed this someone else while talking on the phone. In most cases, I would see his ship appear and then a good 5-7 seconds later, he'd have control of his ship. My system seemed to load the system faster and therefore I had greater time to use my "free" immunity timer. But in his case, he only had a couple seconds.
I'd be fine on reducing the timers to 3 seconds or so IF CCP could reliably ensure that I had complete control of my ship before that timer started. Until that can happen, then we need that timer. For some people, they need even more.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:15:00 -
[19]
The immunity delay is just covering up the fact that a programming error causes your ship to appear in an environment before your client even has it loaded. The client should get everything ready and loaded, THEN your ship should appear in the environment.
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Johnson McCrae on 04/08/2003 19:20:01
Oh for heavens sake, if it wasn't for that timer, dude, TTI would be getting wasted every 10 seconds.
Tell that to your boss. 
Edit: In Anarchy Online, when you change zones, your not attackable till you 'gain control' of your avatar. (ie. you can move, target and attack others). You also are not 'visible' to others untill you get control.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Gonada
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:19:00 -
[21]
10 sec timers are a nessessity.
every game which features pvp and has zones(loading times) needs this immunity.
Otherwise you get the lamest kind of gate camper pirates who can gank you before your loaded, essentially turning this game into one where the fastest connection wins every time.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.08.04 19:29:00 -
[22]
It's actually not the PvP killer. It's the ship saver. Which I have no problem with.
Those who camp gates and stations kills would 100x in a single night guaranteed.
So you want to grief people TTI guy? Go to some asteroid belts and shoot at people fighting NPCS. These guys get warp/web'd when fighting them so maybe you can get your griefing in that way.
Because removing the 10 sec timer would just cause the biggest grief-fest ever seen. At least Stav and sinister guy are willing to admit this.
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.08.04 21:09:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Mark A on 04/08/2003 21:09:59
Re-read. _Either_ the sync problem is fixed, and the 10 sec delay goes, _or_ there 10 sec delay stays but there's a small gap where you can lock a ship before it can warp out.
This is for us to kill pirates and other griefers BTW, not help them. If you don't have a WCS then you should be in trouble if you warp on top of someone. At the moment being able to back-to-back the undock/leaving warp immunity with the entering warp immunity is like a free WCS.
Makes it far too easy for outlaws to escape, even if you have them cornered at a station.
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