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Molotka
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Posted - 2003.08.04 23:56:00 -
[1]
I appreciate everything you've done for us here at Noir Enterprises.
Thank you for founding a new company, getting us in on the front wave at Crielere. Thanks for keeping us motivated, combining resources for those cruiser BPs and the minerals to make them. And thank you for robbing us blind.
After all, creating that alt to make a new corp in the same station we were based in should have raised our suspicions. We should have seen it coming when the half dozen Vexor copies disappeared, along with the 1100 units of megacyte, all our isk, and all those other BPs. We should have known that all your alts would be deleted, that you would disappear into the mist. After all, you were our CEO. Noone should have trusted you from the start.
You shouldn't feel bad at all for having screwed us over. It's obviously not your fault that Bo quit the game entirely. Forget Stray's losses in coming to your corp in the first place; they're obviously unimportant. Oh, don't mind me picking up the pieces afterwards, I like doing that sort of thing. Honest.
It's ok there's no mechanism in game to track you down. We don't want revenge at all. We're obviously overjoyed that you showed us how the game is really played. Thanks, from the bottom of our hearts.
To the remaining members of Noir Enterprises: I'll be staying on long enough to see that you are taken care of as best I can manage, though for some of you there's no way I can make up your losses. I will stay in touch after I leave though, never fear.
To the rest of the EVE community: Rogue Noir was played by the same player that was once Commissar Gaunt. He may have a niece that plays on the same account, and is an English player. He had another corp named Interesting which he used as an intermediary in his disappearance. If you have any information regarding who he might be at this moment, we would appreciate an evemail on the matter. |
Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.08.05 00:04:00 -
[2]
It is about time CCP do something against this type of scammers. I mean in RL people can be found, but here it can be close to impossible, thanks to the ones that make EVE. And also since there is no way whatsoever to counter this we will unfortunately see this happen again, and again and again. Eventually noone will be trusted with anything ingame... corpmates or not. this is sad indeed.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Aurik Ulanti
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Posted - 2003.08.05 00:22:00 -
[3]
*sighs* My heart is with you guys. This sort of disgusting behaviour has never happened to me or friends of mine but it makes me quite angry that someone would decieve others in such a foul way!
The creep even made one of your corp mates quit?
I wish he could be tracked and killed, he's an a**ho*e through and through.
"In the end you will remember not the words of your enemies, but the silence of your friends" |
Vegeta
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Posted - 2003.08.05 01:35:00 -
[4]
yep it will be like Diablo 2, take what you can and run.
2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.08.05 02:22:00 -
[5]
If it's any consolation he has been on my KOS list for 4 weeks now. Guess I better delete him now.
Really CCP you couldn't have come up with a better system for griefers if you'd actually designed it. Then again maybe you did 
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Cro Ramel
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Posted - 2003.08.05 04:29:00 -
[6]
I know this sounds mean and heartless but this sort of thing is the only way one can truly roleplay being a spy. There are no means to conceal your identity short of using alts. A lot of people do it and its not right but it happens and will continue to happen. All I can say is be very wary of "new" players. Then again he was your CEO so thats a whole new ballpark altogether. Seems like you can't trust anyone anymore.
"If it sounds like a bad idea, it is."
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.05 04:32:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
I know this sounds mean and heartless but this sort of thing is the only way one can truly roleplay being a spy. There are no means to conceal your identity short of using alts. A lot of people do it and its not right but it happens and will continue to happen. All I can say is be very wary of "new" players. Then again he was your CEO so thats a whole new ballpark altogether. Seems like you can't trust anyone anymore.
Dude, he was their CEO.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.08.05 08:28:00 -
[8]
Scammers strike again, and again, and again.
The funny thing is the game is meant to be close to RL but in fact is so far and distant from that concept.
Sure corporate embezzlement happens in RL. However there are means of tracking them down and a potential for returning what is taken.
In this game:
a) You can NEVER recover a stolen item.
b) NEVER recover stolen monies.
c) NEVER track the guy down.
The thing that is missing is justice. The only thing this game has is revenge. But because of C above revenge NEVER happens in this type of situation.
In RL people are rewarded for trusting and working together to accomplish things ONLY a large team could do.
In Eve you are rewarded for how good a liar and how willing you are to degrade yourself in the "name" of gameplay. Sorry but I don't need to lie and cheat to get ahead in a video game, and if I needed to I wouldn't play the game.
Scammers, worse than pirates and killers. Scammers make the world ugly and individualistic. Making even the most trusting soul a hardened cynic.
All that I can say is what goes around comes around and this SOB will get his one way or the other.
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2003.08.05 08:39:00 -
[9]
An immediate fix to this problem would be something like this:
1. Corp members can see all names of alt-characters of their CEO's and Directors.
2. In order to become CEO or Director, you have to accept the fact that people can see your alts.
3. Corporate Peons (normal members) do not have this requirement, but CEO and Directors have to make sure not to give a new person too much rights to corp hangers.
---
This will fix this problem for 90%, ofcourse its not possible to audit a CEO/Director that has 2 accounts. But sleazeballs that rip off corps(like what happened to you and your buddies) probably dont have the real life money to pay for 2 accounts anyways :) They are the lowest form of life in EVE.
I hope you and your corpmates will start to enjoy EVE again and i hope that somehow / sometime, this thread of yours gets read by the EVE DEV Team.
-------
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Stryker
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Posted - 2003.08.05 08:57:00 -
[10]
This Doesn't Happen in Real Life?
Tell that to Enron employees.
(we really should be able to track down alternates though, I mean, cough up enough cash and anyone can be found/killed)
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Gun Kata
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Posted - 2003.08.05 12:07:00 -
[11]
What if every transaction had to be counter authorised by another Director before it is actioned?
"I have seen everything now."
"Yeah? Have you seen a man eat his own head?" |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.08.05 12:31:00 -
[12]
Forget it. Oz has spoken on this matter. Names changed to protect the guilty:
When i inquired as to the then-advertised feature of CEOs being able to track all corp member's alts - tho even that wouldn't have helped here - and the more general problem of suicidal thieves (that is, any successful thief will give away all his worldly possessions then kill himself permanently, which shoots down any RP bs you might try to defend it with) - i got this response to my petition:
Quote:
Hi,
This option is not implantit in the game right now. You can only see the character name of the member. I recommend that you will be more carefull in the future.
yeah, THAT ****ed me off. My response:
Quote:
i am NOT HAPPY with this answer, and i find the "be more careful" comment
rather uncalled for. Since you only provide one, unsorted, monolithic Corp
Hangar for our use, we HAVE TO put all items AND all ore in this hangar.
Pilots need access to Corp equipment to outfit their ships, and it's in the
same place as where all our hardworking miners put their ore.
... this was from May. Now there are divisions in hangars, largely due to similar outcries by other players zapped in the same way.
As for tracking alts or disappearing thieves:
Quote:
The point is there is NO in-game mechanism for responding to this. Unless he
is PROFOUNDLY stupid, he will not come back to log in as his old character. We
cannot track who our stolen assets went to - could be any one of 4000+
players. Great. As a side note, we camped the spot he logged off from for
many hours.... i stood there in a Vigil with Warp Scrambler and Cargo Scanner
ready to play out the scene when he returned. It would have been a great IC
game moment and probably would've been written up for the library... but he
never came back. And he probably never will.
he didn't, of course, whomever it was.
Their next stated that maybe hopefully possibly the hangar would be re-thought, and it was, and that part of it works great as i'm sure we all agree. However, as for alts...
Quote:
Hi,
...The only way to insure that your hanger will not be stolen is to grant acess to those people you trust. There is nothing we can do to provide you with anything else then you already know about this character. This is a part of the game play and will be in the futuer. There might be some implants to the hanger in furthur patches but there is no guaranty to that. I recommend that you and your corp will be more carefull in the future to which characters you give acess to the hanger.
Emphasis mine. In other words, getting ripped off with a completely OOC method where the most successful theives in the galaxy are... dead alts... is 'part of the gameplay.'
In a final response via email i was informed without question or even a "maybe it'll be in later" that tracking characters was a dead issue. CEO or otherwise, no one can tell who someone's alts are, or who they send all their stuff to before annihilating themselves.
I don't understand their reasoning or logic at all, and i obviously don't agree with it in the slightest. Basically, if you're in not an obvious large established group or a RL circle of friends, taking your chances and getting ripped off and losing everything you've been paying every month to work on is "part of the game."
I am only still here because i am in one of the aforementioned established groups. But I can't really see this being good for player retention.
{/rant}
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Cro Ramel
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Posted - 2003.08.05 13:50:00 -
[13]
How about a hacking or commerce skill that allows you to track transactions between characters. Gotta be a money trail somewhere... I'm going to start this rant on the Idea Lab for you guys...
"If it sounds like a bad idea, it is."
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Propehcy
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Posted - 2003.08.05 14:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Propehcy on 05/08/2003 14:59:47
I agree harequin, and im sure if everyone spams CCP enough they can take their thumb out of their ass and use their hand to type of some new code to fix this sort of ****.
On thing that would solve a whole lot of problems would be for everyone to be only aloud one char, i mean you can only train 1 skill at a time, even if it's not on that char. this would -sort of- solve the bounty issue, it would allmost completely make corprate stealing impossible, because then you could be tracked down and podded everytime you showed your stinking face.
This has happend to me and my corp, and i fully intend to bug CCP about it because; a) it's not "part of the game" thats a load of ****. And "be more carful to who you give access" is just stupid and insulting, anyone with half a brain can act loyal and then steal everything you have. and b) there needs to be some tracking of SOMEsort in the game besides the **** ass, next to useless agents. i dont understand CCP's reasoning either, but if they dont get their **** together, i forsee the ranks of eve players leaving and finding greener pastures in other games...
Proph
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Cro Ramel
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Posted - 2003.08.05 15:00:00 -
[15]
heres the thread i started on the idea lab
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=24116
please i'd like to see some feedback
"If it sounds like a bad idea, it is."
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.08.05 15:04:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Shock on 05/08/2003 15:05:52
The response of the GM is just lame.
You can't run a big corp if you can't trust your employees.
How are people ever going to maintain 300+ corp if it only takes one rotten apple?
The feature of CEOs being able to see their employees alts was promised way before launch. These problems were predicted even before that.
How stupid is CCP to ignore the importance of these features and just call it 'gameplay'.
This is one of the worst possible ways of griefing, and CCP should be ashamed that they let people ruin the game for others like this and let them get away with it.
And screw all references to real life, in real life people who steal from their corp like these go to jail. There is absolutely no way they can get away with the size of theft and deceit people can get away with in this game.
People say they want the real life possibily to of spying on real corps, but this will still be possible if people can't hide their alts. You still will be able to buy spies etc. only you will onot be able, as in real life, to vanish in thin air using an alt.
Seeing weeks, maybe even months of work just vanish in thin air is possibly the best incentive for people to cancel their subscription. So CCP be carefull how much you are willing to allow.
---
soonÖ |
Mr Bridger
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Posted - 2003.08.05 15:42:00 -
[17]
This is a truly appalling state of affairs and a terrible thing to happen to anyone. A friend has been on the receiving end of this and it basically cost him his corp.
However, If you are interesting in trying to salvage something from this and have a core of quality team players, then get in touch as we may be able to help each other.
Remember don't let this bastard get you down.
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Takumi Vetinari
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Posted - 2003.08.05 16:36:00 -
[18]
In an interesting twist, I absolutely 110% agree with what BH said there.
Well phrased.
--
Takumi Vetinari, Founder
PIE Inc
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Ruulex DeMors
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Posted - 2003.08.06 03:39:00 -
[19]
I read this post last night, and I never read the bottom paragraph. I just hate seeing Corps screwed by ppl, especially that bastard.
Commissar Gaunt was the founder of EVE Marshals, most of you could already tell by the Corp info. One day he decided to tell us that he was quitting, and wanted to "split" the Corp assets. We all were very shocked and said no, I got nominated to take over as CEO. Commissar made me a director, and when he did I hid our shiney new Osprey BP. I didn't know if his intention was to steal all we had worked the last 3 wks for or not, but I did none-the-less. After that he had taken his Sec rating to -8.6 and decided to delete his character. That was the last I heard of him til now
Somehow I feel partially responsible in someway. Let me know if your Corp needs any assistance, if we are able to help we will. If anyone knows the where abouts of his new character plz let me know, I have an empty place on my trophy wall for him.
-------------------------------------
Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals
http://www.EVEMarshals.com |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.06 06:24:00 -
[20]
Nasty.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Darodem
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Posted - 2003.08.06 08:15:00 -
[21]
Untraceable assets and dissolute identity are encouraging griefers! Laws are not enforced by robots and societal controls depend on traceable identity....duh!
We are expected to believe that cultures that create massive space stations and huge galactic industries can't trace individuals and keep no records of transactions.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.06 08:58:00 -
[22]
No offense, but what would you do if you *could* track him? It's so easy to hide in eve, it's ridiculous. You might be able to lock him down for a couple of hours if you found his station, but if he decided to leave, then he would, and you'd just sit there watching.
Until there are tools to 'hunt' other players (regardless of sec rating/profession) there is no fear of being caught, unless you make a stupid mistake.
It sucks that this happens though. The only thing I would suggest is to not give anyone access to any hangar that is worth more than what they have given to the corp.
.
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Propehcy
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Posted - 2003.08.06 09:11:00 -
[23]
indeed DM, heres a big UP URS to CCP, fix eve or i leave. plus, goto xeno's link.
** Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member **
http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg
Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley.
The Prop And Notferr Chronicles
Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence!
Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is.
Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing!
Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud.
Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr...
[ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE. |
Ruulex DeMors
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:12:00 -
[24]
Quote:
It sucks that this happens though. The only thing I would suggest is to not give anyone access to any hangar that is worth more than what they have given to the corp.
Only problem in this case is it was the CEO. I personaly take measures to ensure nothing vital is lost. Ppl only get access to what they need, and a very big thank you to CCP for making the use of BP's set to where the person only needs to view the contents, not take them out.
And when did you become a Space Invader DM?
-------------------------------------
Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals
http://www.EVEMarshals.com |
Davian Windspear
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:02:00 -
[25]
Dont you think this situation is impossible to stop. If someone wants to rip you off they will, especially if it is a CEO. No amount of corp sec is going to help.
What you have to do is make sure you dont put your "all" into a corp. Help out with things you need but dont give it millions!! Unless the corp has been running for a long while and you are sure that the characters are fair, but even then a scammer who is willing to work on your trust for a few months/weeks will still get you.
I feel sorry for the person whos ceo ripped them off though, and im sure if you complained to the GM's they would have done something in this instant if you had told them how upset everyone was.
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Molotka
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:27:00 -
[26]
Thank you to all who responded.
I agree that there needs to be some sort of ingame method of tracking alts. Even a simple agent function, which takes one name (presently active or from 2-3 weeks in the past) and gives the name of the other characters on that account would give us a fighting chance. This would allow those of us who use alts to roleplay in different areas, situations, and methods to do so without fear of OOC knowledge spoiling our fun, and still allow those who fall victim to these sorts of scams some recourse.
I don't think that alts should be imediately viewable to anyone. I personally use my alts for different play styles. One is on the up-and-up, another is a tad on the grey side of things. I keep them seperate, and don't use OOC knowledge from one with the other. I would like to be able to continue to do so without fear that someone will take offense or persecute one character due to the other's actions.
AS for your offers of assistance, I thank you. Myself and 2 others have already found a new home where we think we'll be happy - no more startups for us - and I'll relay your offer to the others as I see them. |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:51:00 -
[27]
Lol. The Troll who tried to flame me to death in the forums turned out as an arse.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:55:00 -
[28]
Ahhh Molly you are so witty, havent you quit yet.....
sho sho i say
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:57:00 -
[29]
If you haven't gone over to Ideas to check Cro's thread yet, you should. Unless you think having agents that can look up financial records is just too unrealistic, of course. ,-P
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Hetfield
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Posted - 2003.08.07 06:48:00 -
[30]
I really think the best solution to this is just allow one character per account. I mean, you can only train one character at a time anyways, and it will cut down on 80 percent of these corp stealing.
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