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Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 264	Posted - 2013.05.29 02:25:00 - [31] - Quote Is that with or without links? from some rough (revised after my earlier mix up) numbers 6x guardians puts out almost the same dps as a triple rep archon can repair a heavily tanked navy geddon for without links - so with links should be comfortable - but I've never actually tried to keep armor BS alive against guardians. When we were in a pulsar I could easily keep the shield resist bonused battleships alive with 3x capital reppers (max siege links) out of triage and even the **** fit ravens with t1 resists were just about doable. Only time I really had to triage was for the cycle time boost to keep huginns alive with overlapped reppers. (They take some serious alpha with the sig bloom). EDIT: Guess it depends what the definition of heavily tanked is - with T2 EANMs and an explosive hardener not a chance, with a couple of faction EANMs and couple of faction hardeners to close up the resist holes it should be doable.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1904	Posted - 2013.05.29 06:36:00 - [32] - Quote guardian omni DPS is 618. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=30199
chris elliot EG CORP Mass Overload 177	Posted - 2013.05.29 06:50:00 - [33] - Quote Red Giant resident here. o/ Yes you can do the smartbombing trick. But, it takes practice and a proper setup. If you derp it you will wind up refitting off the carrier and using guns anyway...... or being instapodded back to highsec.
1c3crysta1 Unknown in the unknown 2	Posted - 2013.05.29 08:33:00 - [34] - Quote Kind of an anti-climex here, but my setup is getting closer and closer to Mitons. Thought that we didn't have enough characters to make it work, but if I could squeeze in a boosting alt, we could get: 1 Chimera, triage from start to end. 2 Moroses 1 TP Golem 1 Webbing Loki (shield tanked, actually got it up to 135k EHP ) 1 Vulture sitting at the POS, boosting all siege along with Afterburner speed and webbing range. Going in with everything but one moros at start, set the carrier in triage and the moros in siege asp. Focus fire and mowing the lawn until it's safe for the 2nd moros to join the party. The big question is if the Loki could do this and not be doomed to a certain death.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 264	Posted - 2013.05.29 12:22:00 - [35] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: guardian omni DPS is 618. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=30199 Those are the numbers I've been going off but in conversations recently people have questioned if they are accuate, they feel about right when actually doing escalations but I wondered if anyone had any further information/opinion. While its a fairly small difference as mentioned above the turret component of that damage will actually be slightly higher ingame due to the quality of hit formula having a mean damage multiplier over a range of shots slightly above 1.00 putting the actual dps ingame based on those figures somewhere between 626-629. 1c3crysta1 wrote: Kind of an anti-climex here, but my setup is getting closer and closer to Mitons. Thought that we didn't have enough characters to make it work, but if I could squeeze in a boosting alt, we could get: 1 Chimera, triage from start to end. 2 Moroses 1 TP Golem 1 Webbing Loki (shield tanked, actually got it up to 135k EHP ) 1 Vulture sitting at the POS, boosting all siege along with Afterburner speed and webbing range. Going in with everything but one moros at start, set the carrier in triage and the moros in siege asp. Focus fire and mowing the lawn until it's safe for the 2nd moros to join the party. The big question is if the Loki could do this and not be doomed to a certain death. Aslong as the loki is half decently fit I'd be more concerned about the golem, if you go in 2 waves at once the first moros is likely to take quite a lot of aggro I'd keep it in refitting range of the carrier and keep in mind if it stops shooting usually the sleepers will switch targets after a bit.
Hathrul DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 244	Posted - 2013.05.29 14:03:00 - [36] - Quote anything battleship is basically a bad idea. as soon as escalations start spawning they will die a horrible, gruesome and rather deserved death. a TP golem? of all the ships that can fit a TP you take a golem?^^
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 264	Posted - 2013.05.29 14:15:00 - [37] - Quote Hathrul wrote: anything battleship is basically a bad idea. as soon as escalations start spawning they will die a horrible, gruesome and rather deserved death. a TP golem? of all the ships that can fit a TP you take a golem?^^ Options for a pulsar is pretty much golem or huginn if you want to use bonus'd TPs against guardians and even 2x TP on one of those is more effective than any number on non-bonused ships. Which you use is relatively academic aside from one being massively cheaper as the sig bloom in the pulsar will make a shield tanked huginn very hittable by Phantasmata missiles and if its webbed down by the guardians pretty close to full damage.
1c3crysta1 Unknown in the unknown 4	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:30:00 - [38] - Quote Rroff wrote: Aslong as the loki is half decently fit I'd be more concerned about the golem, if you go in 2 waves at once the first moros is likely to take quite a lot of aggro I'd keep it in refitting range of the carrier and keep in mind if it stops shooting usually the sleepers will switch targets after a bit. Got the Golem as far as 186k EHP with 150k in shields. Might grab a Scorp instead, since it got twice the tank. 75% vs 112.5% is probably not worth it if the Golem is going into armor with every alpha...
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 265	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:46:00 - [39] - Quote Certainly would be worth using the cheaper safer ship until you've got a bit of practise with it atleast. I'd make sure you've got a full set of capacitor mods to refit the moros as well just incase, the neuting from 2 whole waves is quite brutal.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1909	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:18:00 - [40] - Quote Hathrul wrote: a TP golem? of all the ships that can fit a TP you take a golem?^^ in a shield fleet? it does get a TP bonus you know.
Joan Greywind I Moan ALOT We Moan ALOT 7	Posted - 2013.06.10 04:37:00 - [41] - Quote 1c3crysta1 wrote: Each guardian have 55k hp (with ~75% resists) and 27k hull, which adds up to 55*4 + 27 = 247k EHP. (Taken from http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=23&return_to=) With 5k DPS, that is about 50 sec per guardian. 20 guardians should survive for about 17min (theoretically, but shouldn't be more then 30min). Not forever just remember that the numbers on eft dont reflect "true dps". Fighters are horrible at applying dps even to bs'es, and even battle ships won't hit for full damage, the damn things orbit at 230+ m/s speeds, and you also have the drone aggro, drones die, and even if you are good you still have to recall them. and i don't know how you are getting 1k dps with t2 fitted scorpions (hopefully not torpedoes), link the fit so I can steal it. Big headache if you ask me, and will take very long
Ferna Akai Delete Inc. Enigma Project 2	Posted - 2013.06.10 05:49:00 - [42] - Quote Have to support the above, Those carriers wont apply any DPS to the field in my experience. Fighters, sentries and other drones are picked apart fast and easy before they get to apply real DPS. With low numbers you' ll need those dreads more. So the setu of 2 dreads 1 carrier and support makes sence. You can still apply good DPS and escalate 3 waves. If you have a Loki with 135k EHP you should be fine. As you have gaurdian aggro with the dreads. The loki will just get neuted to :censored: and recieve damage from the non guardian group. I' ve flown a Loki with 70k EHP and found it more than sufficient. So if you have the numbers, warping in the first moros and Chimera with Loki and Golem would make most sense. You Siege and triage both capitals, Loki and golem stay in range of each other (perhaps look for spiddy fit combo's for both ships). As the Golem and loki provide the Moros with what it needs to take down the guardians you hold on a little and warp in the seconde dread. My only concern with the above would be the cap of the carrier. The loki will be prime neut, it will need cap transfer, If the Carrier itself is taking high Dmg/having to rep alot you might run into issue's. Perhaps here a Spiddy energy setup on the loi+golem might provide you with the needed edge. The Golem will drop into low shields, thats just a fact. Get a Good tank on that and have a carrier looking out for him. Not sure for pulsar but the above tactic is tested and works fine. Only issue remains the cap.
1c3crysta1 Unknown in the unknown 11	Posted - 2013.06.10 10:14:00 - [43] - Quote Joan Greywind wrote: 1c3crysta1 wrote: Each guardian have 55k hp (with ~75% resists) and 27k hull, which adds up to 55*4 + 27 = 247k EHP. (Taken from http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=23&return_to=) With 5k DPS, that is about 50 sec per guardian. 20 guardians should survive for about 17min (theoretically, but shouldn't be more then 30min). Not forever just remember that the numbers on eft dont reflect "true dps". Fighters are horrible at applying dps even to bs'es, and even battle ships won't hit for full damage, the damn things orbit at 230+ m/s speeds, and you also have the drone aggro, drones die, and even if you are good you still have to recall them. and i don't know how you are getting 1k dps with t2 fitted scorpions (hopefully not torpedoes), link the fit so I can steal it. Big headache if you ask me, and will take very long My experience is that they're dealing quite alot of damage on battleships and loose about 50% accuracy on cruisers (when they aren't MWDing). Aggro isn't too much of a worry either, atleast when there's cap and reps flying around. As for the Scorpion, after the cruise buff, 1k dps with them are far from hard. Got up to 1200 with 4 faction BCS and about 1050 with 3 Tech II BCS. To that, just add 6 Tech II CML on that Scorpion (the Navy Issue Scorpion).
1c3crysta1 Unknown in the unknown 11	Posted - 2013.06.10 10:19:00 - [44] - Quote Ferna Akai wrote: Not sure for pulsar but the above tactic is tested and works fine. Only issue remains the cap. If cap is the issue, then a pulsar should be ideal with the -41% cap recharge buff. And yeah, remote cap between the golem/scorp and loki could work wonders, thanks for the idea.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 273	Posted - 2013.06.10 13:22:00 - [45] - Quote RE fighters from my experience einherji are useless for applying dps on sleeper guardians, they are the best for putting any damage at all on frigs and cruisers out of any of the fighters but your better off using the right size drones for that. Against bigger targets firbolgs tend to get better quality of hits hence higher applied damage, templars also good but slower, dragonflys generally best forgotten about.

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