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Pann	Posted - 2003.08.05 12:12:00 - [1] Papa Smurf is back (yea!!!) and gave me this information to post in response to a lot of questions regarding agent missions, Charisma and some other issues: Quote: I plan on changing the 'agent ladder' this month, so that it will be standing-based, not referral-based. That will cover the 'at least they should bump me up to a level 3 agent' part of the aggravation. Charisma is the basis for various skills that the agent system does use. I'd expect that it should grow in strength over the next two months as more skills are added and/or implemented, but no definites on that one. More interesting agent missions are hopefully going to come soon as well, and should give people other stuff to do than killing. Can't say when, though, as that depends on too many factors and other people. We talked about a question I was asked in the ingame Help Channel last night, also: "Please give an explanation of pre-requisites for agents from desirable factions." The player who was asking this has been trying to get a CONCORD agent. Papa told me that CONCORD agents have been temporarily disabled and he will be looking into that to see what needs to be done to bring them back. He wasn't aware of this "pre-requisites" message players were getting and asked if someone could explain the context of what they are doing when they get it so he can investigate. Eve Community Manager [email protected] CCP
Rising Sin	Posted - 2003.08.05 12:14:00 - [2] Wait wait... so I can get a lvl 3 agent off the bat if I have good faction? Or what? -- "If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right."
Jeff Jones	Posted - 2003.08.05 12:21:00 - [3] Look up an NPC corporation's agent list. Look at the level 1 agents' info. Some of the level 1 agents contact people who dock at their station and offer them agent missions. In the agent info box it will say if this agent does it. However some of hte ones I have seen say "yes, but your do not meet the pre-requisites" (not verbatim). Bsically saying "Yes this agent offers missions on docking to people, but not to you".
Pann	Posted - 2003.08.05 12:22:00 - [4] Thanks, Jeff. I'll pass that along to Papa Smurf. Hopefully, we'll have some more information about all of this soon, but bear in mind that he's just returned from a long vacation and I know he's got a pile of things on his "To Do" list so I wouldn't expect a response today. Eve Community Manager [email protected] CCP
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.05 12:32:00 - [5] "some of hte ones I have seen say "yes, but your do not meet the pre-requisites" (not verbatim). Bsically saying "Yes this agent offers missions on docking to people, but not to you". ... out of the 'docking' agents, personally have yet to see a single one without that message (and checked quite a few corporations by now) which makes me believe the pre-requisites are somewhat faction based, but it'd be nice to have at least a hint what kind of attributes the agents expect... shrugs ... not to mention you'd think the lvl.1 agents would be less picky. :s
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2003.08.05 12:50:00 - [6] Ah, agents finally getting some luvin' :-) I LOVE YOU PAPA SMURF!!!!1 ________________________________________________ Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance
DJvGalen	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:17:00 - [7] Edited by: DJvGalen on 05/08/2003 13:18:55 I think I gathered about 4 level 1 agents by just docking at stations, at the time I was flying around selling my minerals and this way I gathered quite a few level 1 agents. I'm more concerned about missions where you need to get stuff from the market, for instance the Ectoplasm Biohazard mission I got on friday. I just found out that Ectoplasm is sold on the market but no way can I search the market in each region, fly there and pick up the Ectoplasm, fly back to Schineens in Verge Vendor from Geminate, the system it is sold in, within 2 hours. 2 hours being the time to complete this mission. ------------------------------------------------ CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon.
BSOD	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:19:00 - [8] Quote: "some of hte ones I have seen say "yes, but your do not meet the pre-requisites" (not verbatim). Bsically saying "Yes this agent offers missions on docking to people, but not to you". ... out of the 'docking' agents, personally have yet to see a single one without that message (and checked quite a few corporations by now) which makes me believe the pre-requisites are somewhat faction based, but it'd be nice to have at least a hint what kind of attributes the agents expect... shrugs ... not to mention you'd think the lvl.1 agents would be less picky. :s I will confirm this - I have yet to see a single agent that accepted clients upon docking say that I met his pre-requisites. I don't think a single player anywhere has received an L1 agent upon docking. Also, the faction reset bug is STILL not fixed. :( I really want to be able to return to running agent missions, I haven't been able to do so for over a month thanks to that bug. :( ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises
Lola	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:21:00 - [9] I have recieved many many agents from docking. Maybe 20 of them. I think it's because, as Stavros would put it: I AM TEH SEXOR! ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:22:00 - [10] I did. Er, now i'll have to try to figure out which one when i get done with work today... i docked at a station for the first time after a patch (or two ago), and got "Hi! Want an agent? Well ya got one!" kind of thing. Thanks Pann, and Welcome Back Kott... uh, Papa! You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Endyl	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:26:00 - [11] Duh. never got an agent by docking as of today, even before the faction bug that resetted all my factions to 2.0. I got 6 agents total, and I got all of them only by doing missions and getting to the next in the ladder.
Swifthand	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:30:00 - [12] I think it is all ready crisma based or was. I have 24 lvl1 12 lv2 and 4 lvl3 (most are pirate corp agents)I got just by docking at a base. Then again I am a trader with lvl14 crisma. actually with a little pre planning most agent missions can be completed in less than a min. Have Indy, will travel
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:31:00 - [13] Spotted, thanx. The char-specific prerequirements that are being referred to are that the "minimum friendly standing" must be 2 or higher. The agent-specific prerequirements are "about 30% of all non-Jove, 1st level agents, can be acquired via docking". "Friendly standing" is the maximum of all 9 applicable standing numbers between the two of you as perceived by the agent, i.e. how the agent, his/her corp, and his/her faction feel about you, your corp, and your faction. ... The plan is that during this month, the "agent ladder" concept dies and is replaced by a standing based system entirely. The formula hasn't yet been set in stone, but odds are the rules will be roughly on the line of "you need to have 2*(agent level - 1) in 'friendly standing' to be able to get missions from any given agent". Some balancing and UI improvements to the standing system will be required in relation to that. ... p.s. I do have a bunch of mail to go through, some bugs to fix, and have to talk priorities with Hellmar prior to starting on anything big. I'll try to take a "board-run" within a few days though.
Ertai Vodalion	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:33:00 - [14] Edited by: Ertai Vodalion on 05/08/2003 13:39:18 well Pann - if you talk to Papa Smurf please don¦t forget to mention the "Time Bonus" is never paid since the last 2 patches - and remeber the fact that since the last patch offered missions, although you don¦t accept them, time out and count as failure ! thanks in advance - Ertai EDIT: and please post same/similar Info in the Mission Forum - where it belongs to....
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:36:00 - [15] Edited by: j0sephine on 05/08/2003 13:46:49 "The char-specific prerequirements that are being referred to are that the "minimum friendly standing" must be 2 or higher. (..) "Friendly standing" is the maximum of all 9 applicable standing numbers between the two of you as perceived by the agent, i.e. how the agent, his/her corp, and his/her faction feel about you, your corp, and your faction." ... I have the Caldari State faction of 2+ yet am still not seeing even a single Caldari corporation agent willing to talk (although the positive faction level is noted on the agent's info sheet) perhaps am missing something here?.. ¼¼;; edit: even better, checked lvl.1 agents of company which i have 6.0 standing with... (plus the positive Caldari State faction) and out of the ones who supposedly accepts new clients they all still display the "not meeting pre-requisities" message...
Hardin	Posted - 2003.08.05 14:15:00 - [16] Edited by: Hardin on 05/08/2003 14:21:30 Edited by: Hardin on 05/08/2003 14:18:45 Pann from where I am standing there just seems to be a complete black hole of CCP information regarding agents and how they operate. It would be good if Papa Smurf could post some additional information... 1) How does the agent referal system actually work? Is it based upon the agent standing? Is it based on your charisma? Is it based on the number of missions? Or is it based on something else entirely? 2) What determines the quality of the agent you are then referred to? []Does geography have a role? []Is it based on the agent standing? []Is it based on your charisma? []Is it based on something else? I ask this as I am doing missions for a and excellent (18%) Amarr Civil Service level 2 agent who still hasn't referred me to any other agents despite the fact that when I did a bunch of missions for a poor (-18%) agent in the same system she referred me to sveral level 1's a few level 2's and a level 3... Is it possible I have used up my quota of agents in this area? 3) Slave trade []Why do some of my agents say they sell slaves but when I visit them they don't? []What factors determines the number of slaves an agent will sell you? []Is this based on the agent quality or is it something to do with charisma? My own level 3 agent sells me 27 slaves every 12 hours. But when I started with him he only sold me 25. What prompted the increase - I haven't got a clue! Is there something specific I can be doing to get him to sell me more slaves? Also what determines the price of slaves they sell you? What factors affect this? Faction impacts are also not clear when undertaking work with agents and by all accounts bugged! Is there a cap on how much you can increase your faction rating if you use a level 1 agent as opposed to a level 3 for instance? Misc others: []What factors affect the level of payments you recive from agents? I am aware of the negotiation skill but does the agent quality and standing also have an impact or do they simply affect other things? []Why when you go to look at a proposed mission in you journal (before accepting it) does the agent think you have agreed to undertake it? This has happened to me many times and I have failed missions as a result of it! []Why when agents offer special bonuses for completeing missions within a timeframe do we not receive them? []When are special rewards on agent missions going to be implemented properly ATM any interaction with agents feel completly random in terms of the rewards given and benefits/drawbacks and impact on character. Someone at CCP really needs to prepare a 'GUIDE TO USING AGENTS'* and give the players of this game some INFORMATION. All you have to do is visit the Missions section to see a whole variety of issues with agents that really need to be addressed!
Wulfnor	Posted - 2003.08.05 14:33:00 - [17] I must add to what j0sephine said. Since about the time of the patch applied before you left for vacation I do not think I have picked up a single agent. Before that time I was picking fairly often. From what you said it seems that I would be eligible to get a 'docking agent' for a caldari based corp if my caldari faction is 2+. That most definetely has not happened to me. In fact I have not gotten another docking agent in a corp which has given me 3 and with whom I have 2+. Despite visiting an agent that is labeled as accepting docking, they still consider me as not meeting their prerequites.
Oosel	Posted - 2003.08.05 14:34:00 - [18] im glad now i never dumped my char as he has a charisma lvl of 19 or he will when last lvl5 is finished in 6 days.......
BSOD	Posted - 2003.08.05 14:54:00 - [19] Quote: I have recieved many many agents from docking. Maybe 20 of them. I think it's because, as Stavros would put it: I AM TEH SEXOR! I should clarify: I have not received an agent from docking since the patch that also introduced the faction reset bug. Before that L1s would say hello to me almost everywhere I went. Now, NO new agents accept me at dock. I can confirm the other reports that pre-requirements are set WAY too high for level 1 agents. I have Amarr standing well over 3, and 1.7 standing with Imperial Armaments due to an agent I obtained before the "nightmare patch". I tried to gain an Imperial Armaments agent closer to my corp's current homebase, only to get the usual "pre-requirements" spiel. Papa, glad to see that you're back. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises
Mjr Tom	Posted - 2003.08.05 16:36:00 - [20] Edited by: Mjr Tom on 05/08/2003 16:46:59 I think the biggest problem about the 'Accepts clients at dock' part is the fact that you can only see it once you actually have the agent, which completely defeats the purpose. Edit: I take that back, it doesn't always seem to be the case. Maybe just 'No's are not shown.
Helmut Rul	Posted - 2003.08.05 16:51:00 - [21] Just to mention another problem i have not been getting any new agents in a long long time now. I do not know why excactly i have exellent standing with both my agents and their corp. I tried my second level three agent just in case my first level three agent was bugged but now i have performed 80+ missions for him and all i got (except some isk which was nice) was lowered faction standings (not much) not even a measly level 1 agent have been referred to me for a month or so, I have heard that other people have been getting agents so obiously not everyone has this problem but i have not seen a new agent in ages.
Morkalum Takor	Posted - 2003.08.05 17:04:00 - [22] hehe, All I want to say is, welcome back, Papa Smurf. Can't wait to see what you got cooked up for us or what interesting fixes you have for ongoing issues. Peace. Btw: Please post something about getting into Concord!!! I am a Law Enforcement Roleplaying freak.!!! "There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises
BSOD	Posted - 2003.08.05 17:09:00 - [23] Quote: Edited by: Mjr Tom on 05/08/2003 16:46:59 I think the biggest problem about the 'Accepts clients at dock' part is the fact that you can only see it once you actually have the agent, which completely defeats the purpose. Edit: I take that back, it doesn't always seem to be the case. Maybe just 'No's are not shown. You can only see it in the following situations, as far as I can tell: a) If you already have that agent b) You're docked in the same station ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises
Halo Jones	Posted - 2003.08.05 17:51:00 - [24] Well to be quite honest, this thread is rather refreshing. It was initially started by the Devs, people posted, and we actually had two Dev responses, a PR one and a content advisory one... I understand this will not be repeated across the baord, but it is nice to see some feedback finally, and also the intent that things might get rolling again after 6 wasted weeks (some of the three months must have been useful...... wasn't it?) Oberon Incorporated.
Morkalum Takor	Posted - 2003.08.05 17:58:00 - [25] 6 weeks wasted? Stay off the Delusional drugs....I have been having fun with all that has been implemented and changed in the past 6 weeks.... "There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises
Hardin	Posted - 2003.08.05 23:17:00 - [26] Quote: im glad now i never dumped my char as he has a charisma lvl of 19 or he will when last lvl5 is finished in 6 days....... Hehe Oosel - so I wasn't the only one then Charisma 17 - 2 levels of empathy still to go (holding off until I see a point)
Julius Caligari	Posted - 2003.08.05 23:24:00 - [27] I have not seen any agents being offered on dock since Papa Smurf went on holiday. Additionally I suspect that Caldari agents are bugged and will not give any new agents. Why ? I have a Level 3 Agent. Awesome quality +13%. +10% Agent standing (maxxed out). Corporation standing (capped) at 6.00. And a Caldari state faction standing of 3.21 (it got scragged by the agents faction bug and I bribed it back upwards). I have done 111 missions with no failures. Since the patch when Papa Smurf went on holiday I have not been offered any new agents... and there are local agents I have checked. Before this I got new agents regularly (both referral and on dock). I also have a Level 3 Agent of Good quality (+0%). Agent standing is +7%. Same Corporation (6.00) and Caldari faction (3.21). I have farmed him recently and have 36 missions, no failures. There are nearby level 1,2,3 and 4 agents in the same corp... Oh and to see the pre-reqs - goto Agents in people and places and pull up agent information. Switch to corporation information and goto agents tab. Find a level 1 agent and pull up their information. If it has Accepts Clients at Dock (and not all do) it will say "Yes, but you do not fulfill agents requirements". I am now testing the theory by doing missions for another corp - pity I kinda liked Spacelane Patrol. Julius
Lola	Posted - 2003.08.05 23:43:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: I have recieved many many agents from docking...blah blah... stuff I said I should clarify: I have not received an agent from docking since the patch that also introduced the faction reset bug. Before that L1s would say hello to me almost everywhere I went. Now, NO new agents accept me at dock.<sinp> Papa, glad to see that you're back. Hmm, I haven't received many in a while but I've been docking at the same stations. I did used to recieve them about every other dock though. My alt who never did anything used to get them all the time. It was either bugged before or bugged now or got balanced. I am also glad to see Papa back. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
colla tidet	Posted - 2003.08.06 00:09:00 - [29] Wonder what happened to all the people who had there faction/corp standing taken down to 2.00. "Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
Grinning Dragon	Posted - 2003.08.06 01:09:00 - [30] Quote: Wonder what happened to all the people who had there faction/corp standing taken down to 2.00. Easy. Worked like mules to get it back to... 4.05. (Far from 10, but better than a slap in the face with a dead fish, n'est ce pas?) And though I've said it elsewhere... WB Papa Smurf. Now to get the story cooking. ---------------- Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries.
colla tidet	Posted - 2003.08.06 01:14:00 - [31] Edited by: colla tidet on 06/08/2003 01:45:30 Edited by: colla tidet on 06/08/2003 01:27:44 Thats one. Once again i am amazed at the capacity of human understanding... easy = worked like mule "Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
JimmySav	Posted - 2003.08.06 02:00:00 - [32] Quote: Quote: im glad now i never dumped my char as he has a charisma lvl of 19 or he will when last lvl5 is finished in 6 days....... Hehe Oosel - so I wasn't the only one then Charisma 17 - 2 levels of empathy still to go (holding off until I see a point) HEHE....negotiate 5 here and learning social5 atm..... 8) the agent martyrs brigade. WB papa smurf...we hope to see our agent efforts being encouraged to continue! My main concerns..... 1. That loot drops so i know that if i accept a misison i can complete it 2. If it says i can buy slaves from an agent...why cant i? 3. Faction / agent ratings will do as they are meant to and not be a bit random / uncertain 4. Our work in building agent networks and such isnt wiped away by some "new system" ( I already had all my faction and corp standings knocked from 10 down to 2 in many cases) Jim'll Fix it For You. ( and you and you!)
Jacen Solo	Posted - 2003.08.06 06:27:00 - [33] Finally! When I return back from vacations, maybe I 'll find EVE more insteresting :)
Temerlyn	Posted - 2003.08.06 08:25:00 - [34] im happy to see such a decent reply from a dev about the future of agents and such. Hope the changes are soon
Pastora	Posted - 2003.08.06 08:49:00 - [35] Edited by: Pastora on 06/08/2003 08:52:17 I hope they don't dump faction standings again in the new patch, as it will be rediculous. :( Last patch, that interfered with agents standings, all my faction stadnings were dumped to 2.0 or so, while I had actually almost 9 before the patch. It was nasty. :( Now, I got it to around 5 or almost 6 already, I don't remember. If they dump it again, I'm going to be mad, and go violent. :) So, please, don't do this, Papa Smurf!!! Otherwise, it will be a dirty punch in the face of the players, that spend their precious time on doing mostly unprofitable missions (as you can get tens times more by NPC pirate hunting), especially when the time bonuses are out of the game since the last agent patch... About getting agents since the last agent patch: Well, I did get three 3rd lvl agents from the same faction I was mostly doing missions for. But I didn't get any agents from other factions by referal since the last agent patch. Though, I used to get them now and then before. _______________________________________________ If ifs and ands were pots and pans, I would grow mushrooms in my pants.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.06 09:11:00 - [36] A reply about what causes the faction drop people are experiencing would be nice. I find it most odd, because mine never changed. Maybe they fixed it to what it should have been, and peoples standing were then set accordingly... ? technically, mine should never have gotten above 4 (level 2 agent x 280 missions), but my Gallente standing is still sitting pretty at 10.00. There's a whole mess of stuff I don't understand when it comes to agents... .
colla tidet	Posted - 2003.08.06 11:33:00 - [37] ... "Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
Mynobe Soletae	Posted - 2003.08.06 12:32:00 - [38] First of all, there was a bug I think where every agent you did a mission for would reset your factions to 2 x its level. So if you did some missions for a level 2 agent and got to faction 4, and then did one mission for a level 1 agent, you got back to 2. Second, it looks like they're going to gloss over the loss of faction due to agents. I too had Caldari at 8 or so and now it's 2. From the lack of even a single comment from Pann or other officials, I'll assume what they'll do is ignore the issue, leave everyone as they are, and later call it a feature that should have always worked like this (TM). I'm not sure what they can do, actually. Obviously they want factions to be limited by the quality of agents you have. People who have lost their faction are probably already angry at this unanounced nerf. People who have worked hard to get their faction back will be doubly angry when they reset it back to 2x your max agent. I also have not gotten any walk-in agents lately, and none with newbie characters I've made. I'm not sure what situation the newbies are in. Hopefully, after they're done fixing the situation and/or making changes, they will let us know exactly how we can go about doing these important two things: 1. Acquire new agents, especially when looking specifically for agents of a particular faction. 2. Increase a particular faction, and what the limits are (2x your max agent? 2x your best agent of that faction? (not neccessarily your max agent) 2x your current agent? and how does pirate hunting factor into the whole scheme?) Personally, I've lost all respect for Papa Smurf and/or the agent coders, and I don't think any amount of features they add, even if brilliant and truly revolutionary, will restore that. I'm sorry that this is the case.
Morkalum Takor	Posted - 2003.08.06 13:00:00 - [39] I think this thread started out good and went sour.... People are posting what others have already said....Like we don't need 10 or 20 peeps mouthing off about the same problem with EVE which makes me wonder if half of you guys even read the previous posters....You should not post the same darn problems if you see someone posting that everybody has been experiencing the same problem...You should look through someone elses post and make a reply that reveals NEW problems that are not stated.... And FYI, the main Agent Mission Dev was on vacation when the BIG problems started occurring....so he was not there to rectify the situation immediately. So stop giving Papa Smurf a hard time on the issue. Heck, he is one of the Dev's that DO tell what he's got going for the Agents. Would you rather have him clam up because whenever he "actually" gets on the the Mission Forum (which you would not see the average dev do.) and tries to keep you informed and he gets negative feedback instead? Yes, everybody is experiencing the SAME problems...stop posting the same crud over again. All you are doing is trolling. Let him get orientated so he can start working on it. "There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises
colla tidet	Posted - 2003.08.06 14:46:00 - [40] Once again amazed at the human capacity for understanding... So...When do we get the other side of the story CCP "Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."

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