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DeepfriedTator
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Posted - 2005.10.29 15:51:00 -
[1]
Well I just saw the newest thing for the eagle fix posted by Tuxford. 5% resist per lvl. Personally I would rather have that 5% shield boost bonus. Atleast I could use it. ITs a FREAKING HAC. IT has good resist already and the 5% bonus per lvl is jack at those high of lvls. I have already done the math. Although it may look nice. Personally I thought a 5% rof or bonus to dam was not to much to ask for. But I guess the hard workers at ccp couldn't think of anything original and opted for the BC bonus. Just wondering if I am crazy for thinking this wasn't given any thought or if I am wrong on this?......
by the way we are losing a 25% bonus to shield rep. With a 30% shield amp and a gisti A shield booster repping for 97.5 every 1.5 secs. I could tank any amount of dam on the eagle as is. Now wether or not I could kill anything ...... well thats totally different
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.10.29 15:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 29/10/2005 15:59:25
The new bonus is an improvement, a resist bonus is in fact a passive recharge bonus + a shield boost bonus + a hp bonus, and it is further enhanced by every module affecting passive recharge and/or shield hp. It is in every possible way better than the current bonus.
I'd write some math about this but it's so trivial it wouldn't make it any clearer...
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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We are the underdogs, its best just to accept the fact.
Khaldorn Murino |
DarK
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Posted - 2005.10.29 16:07:00 -
[3]
Both are useless, the resist is less useless than the rep bonus.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.29 16:44:00 -
[4]
"But I guess the hard workers at ccp couldn't think of anything original and opted for the BC bonus. Just wondering if I am crazy for thinking this wasn't given any thought or if I am wrong on this?......"
The bonus was changed to mirror modification done to Moa --which is 'base' for Eagle-- as part of MK2 project.
On Moa this is a very nice change... on Eagle, probably slightly less effective due to already high base resists, but hardly something i'd complain about, nonetheless ^^;;
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.10.29 20:48:00 -
[5]
And the 5% Armour resistance on the Sacrilege is uselss too?
Yeah right...
The 5% Bonus to All Shield Resistances is great and I welcome it, now i can get away with fitting a single EM hardener if I want to tank.
The Eagle is an O.K HAC for sniping, I just wish it had more than 4 damn guns on it. Its a TURRET SNIPER, there is no place for any kind of launchers on such a ship. Damage from an Eagle is already mediocre..
Back to the point: thanks for the ressie bonus. Love it.
Good job Mr. Tux 
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.29 20:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 29/10/2005 20:54:35
Of course, actually having an EM resist on its shields in the first place will help immensely.
Come to think of it, it will make the eagle, a another poster stated, much like the sacrilege - sure, the sacrilege's damage output sucks, but if it can't be killed, who cares? Think about it, the sacrilege must generally fight within nos range to be effective, and nos is the primary cause of death for one. Now consider the eagle, which can fight effectively from 100km out and avoid nos entirely.
'Nuff said. I may actually train up caldari cruiser 5 because of this.
-Wrayeth
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.10.29 20:58:00 -
[7]
Well.. since invul fields are being unnerfed, putting a nice dread gurista one on there might get you some really nice resists, and a photon scattering will get you much better results, I imagine in the 60% ballpark, which is a lot better than the flat 50% EM.
If you go the small gist route, the a-type certainly does pwn with the shield boost bonus, which does kind of suck to lose, but plugging up that EM resist a bit is nice too.
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If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
Antic
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Posted - 2005.10.29 21:14:00 -
[8]
I suspect people will add another shield boost amp instead of that extra EM hardener they could free up with this change.
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DeepfriedTator
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Posted - 2005.10.29 21:16:00 -
[9]
Thanks for the reply's
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Korono
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Posted - 2005.10.30 01:18:00 -
[10]
I know its kinda off topic, but with the eagle getting its little brothers resistances, i'm wondering if the hawk and harpy will get the merlins new resistances
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.30 01:31:00 -
[11]
"I know its kinda off topic, but with the eagle getting its little brothers resistances, i'm wondering if the hawk and harpy will get the merlins new resistances "
Probably not... Moa and Eagle had the same bonus -- incresed shield booster performance, so replacing it for Moa kinda naturally resulted in replacing it for Eagle as well... but neither Harpy nor Hawk has Merlin's "old" bonus to shield size, that's being changed ^^;;
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.10.30 05:13:00 -
[12]
The problem 'propagating' the Moa bonus to the Eagle is that it has diminishing returns for the Eagle.
Granted, shield EM resitances jump from 0 to 25%, it's awesome, but heat resistance, on the other hand, goes from 80 to 85% which is peanuts.
And if you use an EM hardener, now you get 50% resists and after patch you get 62.5%, which is of course better than 50% but not 'that better' especially since invul fields and damage controls will also get diminishing returns.
It would be much better if the Eagle got a damage bonus instead of that resistances bonus, so the Caldari could at least get a HAC that can go toe to toe with other HACs (besides the triple tracking disruptor which implies not tanking at all in the first place).
When it comes to the Moa, that resistance bonus makes more sense but won't make the ship a better tanker (compared to an armor tanker it will still be a joke) since it doesn't have the mids to tank in the first place.
It's pretty funny, because if you tank a Moa, you can't fit scrambler/webber/speed booster and such and end up with a pure sniping (blehhhh) or fleet setup, while sniping/fleet setups don't require any tanking at all.
But since I seem to be the last one caring about the Moa, just forget about the ship anyway.
Killmails |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.30 05:24:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Sorja
Granted, shield EM resitances jump from 0 to 25%, it's awesome, but heat resistance, on the other hand, goes from 80 to 85% which is peanuts.
Please learn the math. If you are pleased with the EM res boost you have to be pleased with the thermal.
You take 33% less damage with 85% resists then you would with 80% resists.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.10.30 05:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Sorja
Granted, shield EM resitances jump from 0 to 25%, it's awesome, but heat resistance, on the other hand, goes from 80 to 85% which is peanuts.
Please learn the math. If you are pleased with the EM res boost you have to be pleased with the thermal.
You take 33% less damage with 85% resists then you would with 80% resists.
Eh 
Guess what, 25% extra resist means... 25% less damage taken \o/
100 raw damage on 80% resist = 100*(1-0.8)=20 damage
100 raw damage on 85% resist = 100*(1-0.85)=15 damage
15/20=25% less damage taken. On the other hand, hadn't you got the extra resist, you'd take 20/15 - 1 = 33.33% more damage.
Question for those who didn't get how this works, where did the 8.33% damage difference go 
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
We are the underdogs, its best just to accept the fact.
Khaldorn Murino |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.10.30 06:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Sorja
Granted, shield EM resitances jump from 0 to 25%, it's awesome, but heat resistance, on the other hand, goes from 80 to 85% which is peanuts.
Please learn the math. If you are pleased with the EM res boost you have to be pleased with the thermal.
You take 33% less damage with 85% resists then you would with 80% resists.
If you could fight somewhere else than on the forums, you'd learn a ship doesn't take percents damage but hitpoints damage.
Let me translate that for you since I'm a nice dude, a 25% resist increase to EM means you save 25 points from a 100 points EM shot while the same increase to thermal means you save 5 points from a thermal shot.
Did I say the same as you?
Sure did, but you said the same as I previously did in the first place 
Killmails |
Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.10.30 08:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Sorja
Granted, shield EM resitances jump from 0 to 25%, it's awesome, but heat resistance, on the other hand, goes from 80 to 85% which is peanuts.
Please learn the math. If you are pleased with the EM res boost you have to be pleased with the thermal.
You take 33% less damage with 85% resists then you would with 80% resists.
If you could fight somewhere else than on the forums, you'd learn a ship doesn't take percents damage but hitpoints damage.
Let me translate that for you since I'm a nice dude, a 25% resist increase to EM means you save 25 points from a 100 points EM shot while the same increase to thermal means you save 5 points from a thermal shot.
Did I say the same as you?
Sure did, but you said the same as I previously did in the first place
Those hitpoint damage are still modified by the resistances, so for practical purposes you take 25% less damage. Meridius is right on that point.
Also, if the MK2 brutix and cyclones get their 5% boost replaced by a 7.5% boost bonus, it's not simply because CCP felt like it.
I wonder if the new Eagle will become a better tank than the Sacrilege, or not.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.30 09:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Sorja
Granted, shield EM resitances jump from 0 to 25%, it's awesome, but heat resistance, on the other hand, goes from 80 to 85% which is peanuts.
Please learn the math. If you are pleased with the EM res boost you have to be pleased with the thermal.
You take 33% less damage with 85% resists then you would with 80% resists.
If you could fight somewhere else than on the forums, you'd learn a ship doesn't take percents damage but hitpoints damage.
Let me translate that for you since I'm a nice dude, a 25% resist increase to EM means you save 25 points from a 100 points EM shot while the same increase to thermal means you save 5 points from a thermal shot.
Did I say the same as you?
Sure did, but you said the same as I previously did in the first place
Stating facts is fighting? EMO.
Like shadow says, you're still taking 25% less damage with that resistance bonus so i don't know what you're trying to whine about this time
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.10.30 09:40:00 -
[18]
I think what sorja is trying to say is... Bonus to em is nice, but to kinetic/thermal, it really counts for very little. IMO it would be much more useful if it were a more targetted resistance bonus. Something like 7.5% to both em/expl or maybe 10% just em. Damage bonus would be much nicer though (for my money).
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.30 09:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dryxonedes Sae
I think what sorja is trying to say is... Bonus to em is nice, but to kinetic/thermal, it really counts for very little.
Yeah thermal is such an uncommon damage type.
(lol)
Sarcasm aside, i know what you mean but it's a really good bonus.
-Thermal is the most common damage type, having that at base 85% is hot.
-Kinetic at 76% is also great. You don't really need to add active resists to that at all.
-Explosive at 69% is decent because explosive is the least common damage type.
- EM at 25% is sucky so thats the only damage type you'll have to worry about hardening. Pretty good no?
After the new invul fields go ingame, use 2x EM and 1 of those and you'll have fantastic resists (someone calc it pls).
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.10.30 09:54:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/10/2005 09:55:56
Nevermind.
---
We are the underdogs, its best just to accept the fact.
Khaldorn Murino |
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.10.30 10:00:00 -
[21]
Meridius, I think you'll have a bit higher resistances than that - stacking formula is being rewritten so that it favours 1-3 modules more than before. I.e. you'll get less stacking nerf from the fitting two mods after patch than before patch.
Don't fight in Jita. That system is bugged to hell and back. The most unusual things can happen there. |
Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2005.10.30 11:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Denrace
The Eagle is an O.K HAC for sniping, I just wish it had more than 4 damn guns on it. Its a TURRET SNIPER, there is no place for any kind of launchers on such a ship. Damage from an Eagle is already mediocre..
I'm quite looking forward to getting an Eagle at some point, my Ishtar will suffice till then  .
However, in the meantime I went out and got myself a Gila (faction Moa) and this baby is on steroids.
Special ability: 50% bonus to Heavy Missile Velocity 
Bonus 1: 5% Heavy Missile Damage per Caldari Cruiser (ALL missiles )
Bonus 2: 10% Med Hybrid Turret Optimal per Gallente Cruiser
This ship rocks, and I'd bet that if the Eagle had the capability of it's missiles also firing at an greatly enhanced velocity then that would negate the need for the Eagle to have more turrets.
The Gila even has a higher base for armor, shield, and cap and also still retains the smaller sig rad of the Moa. 
First time I fired the heavy missiles I was like damn!!!!
Since I have Gallente cruiser at lvl 5 (caldari only at 3 atm  ) I have an optimal of 49km with lead ammo. That coupled with my current missile skills means I can get my missiles out to 55km with a velocity of 5.7km/s which is great because they almost hit at the same time as my first volley from my guns.
So far I have to say that even without a turret damage bonus I do like the Moa and it's variants very much.
Justice
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2005.10.30 11:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sorja[/quote
Let me translate that for you since I'm a nice dude.......
You're a dude.....?!?!?!?!
Damn, you look like a dudette to me, but hey i'll go wash my eyes just in case they're deceiving me..
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DeepfriedTator
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Posted - 2005.10.30 13:35:00 -
[24]
Okay everyone needs a little help with these resist(after the "*improved" skill)
Kinetic
76.78657175
base em
22.52690625
thermal
84.52438125
explosive
69.0487625
that is what the resist are going to be... not 25% to em but 22.5. You don't add 5% each lvl you take 5% each lvl of cruiser. so with 0% resist to em you now have 5 (100x.05) now you take 95(which is what is left after you take 5 away from 100) and times that times 5% and that gives you 4.75 add that to the 5 you already have and bam.... 9.75( already did the math for the rest that is why it says 22.52690625. in all actually depending on what new skills come out for tanking after the next patch will depend on how useful this ship is or if it will be another paperweight in the hanger.
....( * )= boheaka
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.10.30 13:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: DeepfriedTator
...
Load of bollox
...
You're wrong, take a look at the Sacrilege if you want the proof.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.10.30 13:55:00 -
[26]
Should be good for beagles.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.10.30 14:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ghoest
Should be good for beagles.
YAY!
Blasteagles for the win 
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.10.30 14:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Denrace
Originally by: Ghoest
Should be good for beagles.
YAY!
Blasteagles for the win
i just don't understand why you'd cal it a blasteagle when you could say beagle
--
This Zig. For great justice! |
DeepfriedTator
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Posted - 2005.10.30 17:15:00 -
[29]
Edited by: DeepfriedTator on 30/10/2005 17:18:19
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 30/10/2005 13:39:19
Originally by: DeepfriedTator
...
Load of bollox
...
You're wrong, take a look at the Sacrilege if you want the proof.
EDIT:
Your real resistances will be:
EM: 25%
Thermal: 85%
Kinetic: 76%
Explosive: 69%
sorry take a look at the ferox. get your bc skills up a few lvls and you don't have 10% resist or 25% resist after you max it. You have exactly what i put. do the math. You don't add 5% each lvl. Look at the Sac. It does not have a armor resist of 0%. But thanks for playing
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.30 17:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: j0sephine
With skill maxed out this is 25% since the bonus is applied once, as accumulated value... not 5% * number of trained levels stacked on top of one another.
Exactly. The person who stated 22.5% might have been thinking of modules, which are not one single bonus like the resist bonus from the HAC special ability is (i.e. one bonus = no stacking penalty), but several bonuses stacked together (one from each module; stacking penalty applies).
-Wrayeth
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