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Lola
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Posted - 2003.08.06 05:44:00 -
[1]
Tonight at the supermarket I checked out a few gaming mags. Game Informer had an issue with Gran Turismo 4 on the cover. I opened it up and checked out the Gran Turismo article to see how that game is shaping up then thumbed through the rest of the magazine.
To my suprize I saw a review of EVE in there. OMG ouch, I was cringing at the stuff the reviewer said. There is no way I would give EVE a second look after reading that review. They even had a counter point side bar that I hoped would rebutt the other reviewers opinion but it didn't. It said pretty much the same thing.
They griped mostly about the long travel times, the emptiness of space, the lack of things to do, how boring mining is and how unless you have a lot of time to devote to the game you really aren't going to get much fun out of it. It made me sad to read such a bad review. 
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.08.06 06:15:00 -
[2]
I dont think Eve is bad compared to the other MORPGs out there. But I think the bar has been raised, no one wants more of the same. MORPGs suck, I never bought 'em. Im still waiting for Eve to be the revolutionary 4th generation MORPG it was supposed to be. CCP know how to do it, I dont know why its not being done.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.06 06:34:00 -
[3]
That review would probably be correct. CCP needs to give new players a better way to launch their perspective careers. The tutorial basically tells you, "here's your mining laser, there's an asteroid, go for it!". It would be nice if the game had some newbie pirate areas to hunt and some other stuff for new players to do.
Eve can be pretty fun but it IS a lot of work to locate "fun" in this game. And even then it's still kind of slow paced and boring at times.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.08.06 06:46:00 -
[4]
This is still paid beta guys, wait until the actual retail and you will see tons of new content and fun, I can't wait for it.
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Psyco Groupie
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Posted - 2003.08.06 07:31:00 -
[5]
stupid pirates
* ******* Crazy |
Thano
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Posted - 2003.08.06 07:52:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
Eve can be pretty fun but it IS a lot of work to locate "fun" in this game. And even then it's still kind of slow paced and boring at times.
i hate to say it but i couldnt agree more. CCP realy needs to spice things up for the new player. they could also use a bit of work on travle time it can be very rediculious at times. i find that a good 75-85% of my time in game is spent in warp and as we all know the warp efect gets old after the 20th or so time you have seen it.
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smoked
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Posted - 2003.08.06 07:54:00 -
[7]
Quote:
stupid pirates
ignorant sob
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 08:05:00 -
[8]
My thoughts on reviews:
Game reviewers are failed games designers.
Book reviewers are failed writers.
Music reviewers are failed musicians and failed writers.
Film reviewers are failed script writers/directors.
Who wants to read about what a failure thinks of something?
You have a nice day now.
Miso
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Jack Hayden
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Posted - 2003.08.06 08:51:00 -
[9]
Miso, launch some day?
á
"Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT."
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 08:59:00 -
[10]
Jack - I take it you mean lunch?
Yeah ok, but your paying. I'm broke 
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Dead
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Jack Hayden
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Posted - 2003.08.06 09:54:00 -
[11]
Yea lunch
I'd expect nothing less than me paying, what do you take me for, a redneck?
á
"Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT."
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 09:57:00 -
[12]
You're a true gent.
Pick me up this evening if you like.
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Brock
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:08:00 -
[13]
Can I hide in the wardrobe and watch? 
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:17:00 -
[14]
Why not join us?
Or is "one in the hand" worth "two in a bush"
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Riddari
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:19:00 -
[15]
"two in the bush" 
Priceless
¼©¼
a history |
Brock
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:33:00 -
[16]
Quote:
"one in the hand"
Actually, my record is 5 so I think if I eat my greens today I should be OK for both
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:34:00 -
[17]
Dirty child!
Remind me never to shake hands with you...!
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Sybylle
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:34:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sybylle on 06/08/2003 10:36:05
I must admit that Miso isn't far from truth about critics, but anyway there is a lack of content in Eve, and Eve is not like other MMORPG...It's more strategic and less arcade/action than most of the games, so many ppl won't like it as for them it's too long to get anything.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Koinski
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:55:00 -
[19]
i think it was Boris Vian who said something like:
"When making a review Critics should state their background, their values, their motivations, and then just say if they liked or not the subject of the review"
Somehow, it is never like that.
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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:57:00 -
[20]
I'm definitely with Miso on this one. I usually pay on attention to movie reviewers for the same reasons. If I did I'm sure I'd be missing out on alot of good movies and pc games.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 10:58:00 -
[21]
Indeed.. the internet is a wonderful thing, but its major drawback is the that it enables gonks with no brains, wit or idea about anything, a platform to express their myopic, idiotic views.
Theres nothing worse than a game/film/music review written on a website.
If only you could podkill in real life.
(I also appreciate the irony in an idiot like myself posting such comments on this board)
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Dead
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Brock
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:22:00 -
[22]
You're totally right guys n gals but unfortunately I think most games make their money from the, shall we say, less sophisticated consumers who will just give Eve a wide berth after an article like that.
Probably quite right too- Eve isn't a charity and simply cannot expect people to pay any longer for what may be rather than whatis staring you in the face when you log in.
The word is, and will continue to be, out about the content issues Eve has and this will factor in to review monkeys thinking when they put an article together.
Since the mass market reviewer doesn't like to make a bad call or be 'wrong' in the eyes of his/her readers they will play it safe and lay into Eve along with everyone else 
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Eidas
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:26:00 -
[23]
But people are entitled to their opinions. I have read several very favourable reviews (I usually agree with the UK's PC Zone magazine). I'm sure we would all agree EVE is an acquired taste and isn't for everyone, just as this is the case within the consumer demographic, so it is within the ranks of the reviewers.
At the end of the day, the only opinions that count are ours.
Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov |
Quantum Matrix
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:27:00 -
[24]
It's interesting that a few prominent european magazines gave Eve good marks, and the rest followed suit.
PC Gamer gives Eve an awful review in North America, and all the local mags go ballistic on it too. Seems like they just read eachother's reviews and change the words around like a bad high school cheater.
-QM
What do we want?
Brains!
When do we want them?
Brains! |
Thrak
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:39:00 -
[25]
Well the PC Zone UK review put it pretty clear, saying it's a good game but it's an acquired taste. The reviewer complained about the persistance of PvP but sort of realised that was the point of EVE as well. (Doesn't excuse it; was still a stupid thing to say about a PvP game).
I don't have it right here but even if I did I am too damn lazy to refer to it so bleh.
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annoing
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:51:00 -
[26]
All PC / Console games are an aquired taste.
A critic reviews NOT the game is but how he/she feels about the game. Take a critic who is into FPS and more than likely slate this game, take another whos been an elite fan for years and he'll slate it too (maybe). Also, which critic has been recieving freebies off certain companies? If not a CCP goody bag on his desk will he prefer a sony product?
I can tell you from personal knowledge that the game/product reviewers based in London were ALL given 2 Playstation 2's when it was released including a set of games. I know this to be true because I delivered them for the marketing company employed by Sony. And I wont even go into the special goody bag that was handed out with them.
I like EVE, and I guess the other 5-6k players who play every day feel the same about it too. I was a FPS player only before I got into the Beta, and have been an addict ever since. Way to go EVE, i havent done the housework properly in 3 months
Have a good, safe, pvp free day y'all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Inquisition
Long live the Inquisition
Long live the Emperor
Long live Amarr!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.08.06 11:58:00 -
[27]
It's also important to remember most gaming mags are advertising dollar *****s. Eve is not giving them money, thus no good reviews. I remember seeing great reviews of Shadowbane which were totally irresponsible mostly, in my opinion becuase SB spend a boatload of advert dollars. I think to some extent CCP is getting the double whammy of not advertising, few new customers and the gaming mags won't paint a rosey picture for a non advertizing game that does not provide them with dough.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:08:00 -
[28]
Ends - spot on. Its all about back handers, free lunches and corporate "blowjobs".
Consumers are lazy however - they like being told what to like, what to dislike and what to buy.
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Dead
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Calalbran
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:10:00 -
[29]
Reviewers can be wrong.
Anyone old enough to remember a film called "Star Wars" by a relative unknown guy called George Lucas?
It got slammed by the vast majority of critics, loads of initial bad reviews.
Yet the audiences loved it - we had to go 3 times to try and see it (first 2 times the queue for tickets was much larger than the cinema could handle).
Yet that single film that was initially slated, ended up having loads of books, several more films, various computer games etc all based on its universe.
I take reviews with a pinch of salt since then.
Eve is the sort of game I like, with plenty of action when I want it (and quiet times too).
Not like some games (Everquest) where you can easily spend several days camping an area waiting for a single monster to come along. Or a 20 - 30 min run just to pick up the stuff from your corpse.
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:29:00 -
[30]
I'm sure CCP has thought of how to make life more fun for the beginning player and will be adding as the year goes on. Unfortually for now, we've just got to grin, bear it and try and help the new players out.
m0ovie links |
Koda
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:51:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Koda on 06/08/2003 13:51:51
After reading a raft of reviews I noticed a distinct gap between the scores from the European press (favorable) and the North American press (poor).
EVE can definitely be a slow, cerebral game. That's why I have Day of Defeat and Halo when I need a break.
Acquired taste, yes. But then so was beer.
Mmmmmmmmm...beer.
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Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:02:00 -
[32]
Did the review mention how long the reviewer spent with the game? I'm of the opinion that MMORPGs take far more time to get to know, and thus accurately review.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:06:00 -
[33]
Accurately review? Surely an oxymoron?
Anyway, reviews are useless because they are all subjective. Everything is subjective. The only way to find out if anything is any good (ie to your personal liking) is to experience it. I treat positive reviews with equal amount of disdain as negative reviews. I know its hard to experience everything first before buying it, but for me, reviews are not an option.
I think alot of reviewing is about postering, and not about a genuine interest in the product.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:10:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Accurately review? Surely an oxymoron?
Anyway, reviews are useless because they are all subjective. Everything is subjective. The only way to find out if anything is any good (ie to your personal liking) is to experience it. I treat positive reviews with equal amount of disdain as negative reviews. I know its hard to experience everything first before buying it, but for me, reviews are not an option.
I think alot of reviewing is about postering, and not about a genuine interest in the product.
Sorry, I implied subjectivity, I thought it was a given, my bad.
I'm the same... I take every review with a huge grain of salt. I prefer sites that have user reviews along with the "pro" review, and I must prefer to read the negative reviews... there are many times where someone hates a game for the exact reason you would hate the game, so it's all worthwhile reading.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:14:00 -
[35]
Hehe, yeah. I take games im interested in (console games that is) to the counter and say to the assistants - "put this on a machine for me so i can play it". If they say "no" I say, "too bad, you've lost a sale".
Shops generally will accommodate you if you want to listen to a cd before purchase or play a game. PC games are slightly tricker however -"install this for me please I wanna play it."
"Get the hell out of my shop!"
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:21:00 -
[36]
Wait, and these guys gave their loving attention to GT4? Gran Turismo? The game where you drive a car fast so you can get more money so you can buy more cars so you can win more money to buy more cars?
I don't understand why they felt the need to review EvE at all, really - do they usually cover MMOGs? What's their reviewing of other MMOG's been like? Are they a wholly owned subsidiary of some other MMOG's company? 
Game magazines are 30% ads and 60% outright propaganda, unfortunately. I only ever glance thru them to see what those goofballs are up to - i only buy them in the first place because i am addicted to PS2 demo discs...
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Tobruk
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:57:00 -
[37]
Quote:
I'm sure CCP has thought of how to make life more fun for the beginning player and will be adding as the year goes on. Unfortually for now, we've just got to grin, bear it and try and help the new players out.
Did you just offer to help a new player? I guess this game really is lacking for content for new players if m0o is offering to help them hehehe.
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Wytch Doktor
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:23:00 -
[38]
Nice background Miso, we good lookin peeps need that backlighting or everyone will miss our totality.
Anyway, reviews are great. Yes they are 90% bullcaca, but most gamers realize that. I was playing shadowbane. Got sick of what they called game balance, and was just looking for a game.
I saw a little advertisement for eve, on a website. You know the little ones that alternate. I clicked on it, and then went and found a review. I could tell from the review that it looked like someting I would like. Even though the reviewer was kinda so so about the game. I knew it was for me.
I logged into SB and canceled, and headed for the game shop.
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.08.06 17:04:00 -
[39]
In my opinion reviews are very useful. They generally represent the point of view of the 'average' gamer, who have to choose between lots of games, who doesn't have lots of time to research and investigate on a specific game, and more importantly who wants to be entairtained by a game as soon as possible and as often as possible.
In my opinion, EVE isn't newbie friendly at all, and have quite a few timesinks, which most likely explain the relatively mediocre reviews it got by some of the press.
When 10 different game mags write that EVE have a steep learning curve and is almost devoid of newbie content, I don't think you can just dismiss that and blame the reviewer.
CCP should learn a lot from those reviews, and I'm sure they do.
And as someone said, even if the reviewer didn't give a good rating, if he's doing its job properly he will have to actually describe the game features, and people may just find that those features are what they are looking for, regardless of the reviewer's opinion.
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Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Koda
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Posted - 2003.08.06 17:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Koda on 06/08/2003 17:20:24
I believe Game Informer is put out by the same people who run Funcoland, Babbages and Gamestop. I got a subscription when I bought a used game discount card.
As far as not liking MMOG's? They reviewed SWG the month before and gushed all over it.
/Fanboys
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.08.06 17:24:00 -
[41]
Eh the travel time thing is right on the money.
Who want to spend 2 hours of valuable free time travelling in a game when I do that in my own car everyday?
Really need to speed up the warp speeds and decrease distances from jump gates in far outer regions where there are no stations.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Halseth Durn
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Posted - 2003.08.06 17:28:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Halseth Durn on 06/08/2003 17:29:18
This is very unfortunate, because articles like this one (and the one in PC Gamer) will probably keep TENS OF THOUSANDS of potential players away from eve. As you and I know, when it comes to eve, "you get out what you put in". In other words; the more time you spend in this game, the more fun you are going to have. And there isn't a "twitch addicted" game reviewer on the planet that will give eve even more than one hour of his time. (grand turismo on the cover speaks volumes)
Bad reviews coupled with zero marketing presence spells D O O M for this truely amazing game. And that is a crying shame.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2003.08.06 19:35:00 -
[43]
I'm excited about Gran Turismo 4 but I love Eve. I like finding games that I like, period. It doesn't matter what type.
Truth is, most reviewers have a sense of ego that says they are the best gamers in the world. They like to think themselves the cream of the crop because they have a job we'd love to have. Play games all day and talk about it. There are a bunch of people who post on the boards here that have the same elitism complex.
When dealing with people like that, they will generally tear down anything that could actually make it but didn't pamper them. You see it on the boards all the time. People whining about this bug or that one, or how everything just plain sucks. Then they try to justify it by saying they are trying to help with 'constructive criticism' and want the game to truly succeed. All they really want to do is get attention for being the first one to have a new opinion.
If the reviewers get the attention from a company that basically says, "Hey we think you are the best people out there", their heads get bloated and fall madly in love for that game. Anything to boost the ego. Sad but mostly true.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
eriq
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Posted - 2003.08.06 20:40:00 -
[44]
if this game is so bad, why can't i stop playing it?
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Muacha
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Posted - 2003.08.07 00:15:00 -
[45]
I'm just wondering if the bad reviews will be linked at the review page along with the good ones. HMmmmm.....
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.08.07 00:35:00 -
[46]
Quote:
In my opinion, EVE isn't newbie friendly at all
That is spot on. Eve has a broken "tutorial" and a learning curve which resembles the north face of the Eiger
I suspect that way more than 50% of the "newbies" buying the game now it's been discounted will give up pretty rapidly. The printed manual that comes with the game is totally useless and the only way to find out about the (b0rked) sec ratings, clones, insurance, etc etc is by being on the receiving end of a bad experience. Which will make more newbies quit.
The only way to learn about this game is to join a corp and read these forums. All the time. Every day.
There's a subtle hint for CCP but I doubt they'll get it so I'll spell it out for them :
Sort out the "tutorial" and put some documentation together so that newbies actually have a chance to play the game?
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.08.07 01:24:00 -
[47]
Ah I've just been reminded of something. Out of the 4 people I know in real life who bought this game three gave up inside the first month. The fourth stopped at the end of the first month.
The comments of the guy who gave up inside the first week were enlightening. Note that I quote him verbatim so you'll have to excuse the language :
"OK so I finally gave up on that sodding tutorial. It never completed and then kept popping up whenever I docked at a station. So what now? I mine or I do some wierd **** for an agent who pays next to nothing. Apparently it helps my faction rating - so I'm told. WTF is faction rating? Oh and while I'm at it what does the security rating of a system mean?"
It goes on a lot longer than that and I did try to answer his questions and bring him up to speed on the changes in sec rating. I don't think I did too well on that though as to be quite frank I don't think they do work consistently. Anyway he quit saying he didn't want to play a game where he had to read forums for hours on end to find out what was really going on.
To be quite honest I can't blame him.....
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Derkan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 02:16:00 -
[48]
If you compare eve to other games such as asherons call 2, which got great reviews and the game play sucked. Or Shadowbane which got good reviews and that game blew chunks. The online gaming mags are only good for games in which you can become a God in a week. Eve wasn't made for Godhood in a week. It takes time to advance in skill levels. You don't have to mine at first if a player doesn't want to. Go kill some 1k pirates with your starter ship. Mining is the easy way to gain money. I like eve because its the amount of hard work you do in the game. It pays off. If a gamer mag is only going to play eve for a couple of days then ya it blows chuncks. But if you plan on having a life while you advance in skills then eve-online is a great game. I just wish they would fix some bugs and give us some hints on whats to come is all. We know that new ships are coming and new tech has shown up. Eve-online is a very different game. Which is very nice. I got burned out on powerleveling my char's on other games. I picked up eve and I am content now on the game play. I'm happy the content is moving along as well. I just hope eve does better in the coming months.
My two isk.
http://eve-coldfusion.com |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.08.07 03:26:00 -
[49]
I just hate reviewers. They suck, they play a game for like 2 days and then come up with stupid blabla stating how much they know and why this and that sucks. Everytime I read a review I just laugh because you can clearly see that those guys don¦t have a clue about real gaming.
I¦ve only read very few reviews that were actually good and real.
What I hate even more is how those superleet-review-powergamers come up stating how cool this or that game is simply because it¦s hyped or comes from some big gamecompany. Take Unreal2 for example. Most of the german reviewers were going like "omg this came is teh sh00ter, great gameplay, cool story blablabla". Then I bought the game and it simply sucked. Not only was it buggy as hell and ran with superlow framerates, it was just boring and had practically NOTHING to offer besides some cool gfx and voicesamples.
If you want to know whether a game is cool or not, go see for yourself. Don¦t let stupid reviewers do the work for you for all they know about gaming is how to install and start a game. Never will they be as experienced as most of the people in here... in fact their job doesn¦t allow it really.
Mai's Idealog |
Nominio
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Posted - 2003.08.07 06:23:00 -
[50]
I don't think traveling time is bad compared to other mmorpg's like everquest and earth & beyond.
I do believe you have to be an active player, however to get full enjoyment out of this game. Those that just pop-in and out every now and then arent gonna appreciate the vastness of the game.
Also they will be adding more content, yet more complexity to the game.. making it more enjoyable to us core games and more difficult for the newbies to learn..
I look forward to the future of EVE
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Sabercat
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Posted - 2003.08.07 09:28:00 -
[51]
I've read some of the reviews in several magazines on Eve and I can't see how the peeps who do the review on this game can give a proper review when most likely they didn't play it for more than a couple of days at best. Most of the pictures they show of them in game show noob ships which tells me they hardly played! To do a good review on this game they should play it for a few months and give updates on the game in each issue. I bet it would paint a whole differant picture of Eve.
Sure this game has a lot of things that need fixing and god knows more content but it must be pretty good cause a lot of us keep playing it many an hour each day.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2003.08.07 09:30:00 -
[52]
The problem I have with what the reviewer said was that you need to devote huge amounts of time to get anywhere in the game.
This is true of any MMORPG, but for EVE this is so not true when you compare to other MMORPGs. Skill training does not require that you use the skill repititively. Skills continue to train while you are offline. You know exactly how long it will take to train a skill when you are training it, as opposed to camping a mob or performing mundane tasks and hoping for the best.
When it comes to mining, you can park your indy in front of a roid in a 1.0 system and actually go afk and enjoy a real life. In other games I've played mining involved double clicking each time for a mining action (UO). If you want to manufacture X number of items you have the minerals for, you simple start the manufacturing process and the factory continues to work while you are offline. The only things in this game that require you to be at the computer all the time is fighting and travelling through low sec space (with other exceptions I'm sure)
One of the things that drew me to eve so much is that it does not tie you to your computer as much as the other mmorpg's.
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(c) Copyright Saladin, 2005.
Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
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