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Lord WarATron	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/11/2005 10:09:11 To keep things fair, we shall say that they are mining kernite, though the results as just as valid for, say Veldspar. As we all know that the apoc is better than a covertor for low sec due to its better tanking abilitys, which is why I am not metioning jasp, hemo or any other 'risky' ore. Note: If my Maths are wrong, please correct as appropriate. Apoc: Fitout, 8 Modulated Deep Core Miner II's With t2 Kernite Crystals. Let us allow needed cargo expanders/CPU's to allow this fitout as well. MDCMII's mine 120 every 3 mins and 120x1.75 for the t2 kernite crystal. That is a total of 330 per 3 mins, which is 110 per minute per laser. Now lets add skills. 110 (m3 per minute) x 1.25 (mining V) x 1.25 (astro V) = 171.875m3/min The Apoc has 8 turrets so that is a total of 1375m3 per minute Muhahah, That is 4071m3 per three minute cycle, which is far more than the cargo hold of a covertor! Now lets add drones. I will say Mining Drones II since Harvys are not produced, meaning they are a doomed stock which will eventually run out. I assume the Apoc is within 1500 meters of the drones that are mining the asteroid. 10 Mining Drones II do 25m3 per min with a 25% bonus due to mining drone operation skills, which is 10 x 25 x 1.25 =312.5m3 per minute So the perfect apoc = 1375 + 312.5 = 1687.5m3/min Now somebody do the perfect covetor stats! --- Order Now! Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble' Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour Msg me - 500mil - 7 day backlog
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:19:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/11/2005 10:20:31 Originally by: Lord WarATron MDCMII's mine 120 every 3 mins and 120x1.75 for the t2 kernite crystal. That is a total of 330 per 3 mins, which is 110 per minute per laser. This is where your math is broken. Answer = 1201.75, not 120 + 1201.75. Thus your next number is 210. The covetor gets 1,444.53, and the apoc gets 1,187.5 m3 per minute, with 10 mining drone IIs. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:20:00 - [3] ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Lord WarATron	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/11/2005 10:20:31 Originally by: Lord WarATron MDCMII's mine 120 every 3 mins and 120x1.75 for the t2 kernite crystal. That is a total of 330 per 3 mins, which is 110 per minute per laser. This is where your math is broken. Answer = 1201.75, not 120 + 1201.75. Thus your next number is 210. The covetor gets 1,444.53, and the apoc gets 1,187.5 m3 per minute, with 10 mining drone IIs. Ok. So if a MDCMII mines 120x1.75 and not 120 +(120x1.75).... what does the extra 120 mining speciality amount mean in the discription of the MDCMII? --- Order Now! Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble' Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour Msg me - 500mil - 7 day backlog
Hedkandi	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:30:00 - [5] Does the mining barge get a bonus yield too per level? Level 5 would increase the yield by a factor or 1.15 per laser maybe... dunno I'm still sleepy.
Amthrianius	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:33:00 - [6] You forget the mining yield implant ---------------
Hedkandi	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Lord WarATron Ok. So if a MDCMII mines 120x1.75 and not 120 +(120x1.75).... what does the extra 120m3 mining speciality amount mean in the description of the MDCMII? The MSM2 also has a speciality amount, equal to the mining amount. Even if your math was right, this would be cancelled out if you performed the barge calculations in the same manner, and the MSM2 yields would be huge.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/11/2005 10:32:03 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/11/2005 10:29:29 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/11/2005 10:20:31 Originally by: Lord WarATron MDCMII's mine 120 every 3 mins and 120x1.75 for the t2 kernite crystal. That is a total of 330 per 3 mins, which is 110 per minute per laser. This is where your math is broken. Answer = 1201.75, not 120 + 1201.75. Thus your next number is 210. The covetor gets 1,444.53, and the apoc gets 1,187.5 m3 per minute, with 10 mining drone IIs. Ok. So if a MDCMII mines 120x1.75 and not 120 +(120x1.75).... what does the extra 120m3 mining speciality amount mean in the description of the MDCMII? EDIT: Apoc with 8 Miner II's = 750 M3 With max stats. Add 10 Miner II's and you have 1062.5m3. You are telling me you get only an extra 125m3 per min with 8dcmII's with t2 crystals? That cant be right! Yes, its right. Yes, T1 crystals are useless, and T2 crystals are gimped. Welcome to EVE - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Lord WarATron	Posted - 2005.11.02 10:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Hedkandi Originally by: Lord WarATron Ok. So if a MDCMII mines 120x1.75 and not 120 +(120x1.75).... what does the extra 120m3 mining speciality amount mean in the description of the MDCMII? The MSM2 also has a speciality amount, equal to the mining amount. Even if your math was right, this would be cancelled out if you performed the barge calculations in the same manner, and the MSM2 yields would be huge. I edited my question but I think that was at the same time as you were making the reply, but if I follow your maths, that means that 8 DCM II's with 8 t2 Kernite Crystals (275k each) is only 125m3/min better than a bog standard Miner II setup? Can anyone confirm? --- Order Now! Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble' Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour Msg me - 500mil - 7 day backlog
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.02 11:06:00 - [10] I think I might come back to this thread tonight if I can't sleep. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.11.02 11:12:00 - [11] No. NO! Bad WarATron! Apoc is for shooting people! Not mining. --- God-King of Geminate
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2005.11.02 11:56:00 - [12] i don't know whether to throw up or not. Apoc = ship to shoot stuff. Stuff /= Roids. Mining lasers on an apoc make baby omber cry. Sel: OZ IS EVIL! HE WILL CRUSH YOUR WILL TO LIVE WITHIN HIS IRON GRASP
Crusari	Posted - 2005.11.02 12:13:00 - [13] amarr are only good for mining and NPC'ing anyways
Ralitge boyter	Posted - 2005.11.02 12:35:00 - [14] There is an even simpler way of looking at things. With your pants down in your POD and a 0.0 belt spawn getting the jump on you what would you rather be sitting in? Give me an apoc any day. Sure it is for shooting things but it is the best 0.0 miner out there as it is the only thing that can take a beating and mine a decent bit of ore in the less secure area's of the universe. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Haram Zada	Posted - 2005.11.02 13:13:00 - [15] I think the point was that covetors are a waste of skillpoints, assuming the apoc mines 1600m3+ a min. But what I dont understand is the Modulated Deep Core Miner II. The description says 120m3, with 120 as ore speciality. I thoght this means 120 units every three minute without crystal, and with a crystal, it is 120 + (120xCrystal Bonus). Otherwise there is no point in crystals or MDCM II's at all. So yes, MDCM II's are not a waste of time, but can a MDCM II user confirm? I quite fancy training up to a 1600m3+ a min with an apoc!
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.02 13:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Haram Zada I think the point was that covetors are a waste of skillpoints, assuming the apoc mines 1600m3+ a min. But what I dont understand is the Modulated Deep Core Miner II. The description says 120m3, with 120 as ore speciality. I thoght this means 120 units every three minute without crystal, and with a crystal, it is 120 + (120xCrystal Bonus). Otherwise there is no point in crystals or MDCM II's at all. So yes, MDCM II's are not a waste of time, but can a MDCM II user confirm? I quite fancy training up to a 1600m3+ a min with an apoc! You can't mine 1600m3 with an apoc. You can mine exactly what I quoted in my post. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Haram Zada	Posted - 2005.11.02 13:28:00 - [17] Edited by: Haram Zada on 02/11/2005 13:30:37 Edited by: Haram Zada on 02/11/2005 13:29:45 Then if my understanding is correct...... a MDCM II with no crystal mines just plain old 120m3 per 3 mins The MDCM II mines 120xCrystal Bonus and not 120 +(120xCrystal Bonus), which is what is suggested by the discription... have you tested this out? Or has anyone tested MDCM II's? If what you say is true, and I am starting to belive you, then what is the point of MDCM II's over miners II? Any extra mining is lost via buying t2 crystals :( CCP Improve the T2 Crystals since they decay!
Redd Sectoray	Posted - 2005.11.02 14:36:00 - [18] Just did a little testing with Strip Miners (don't have any MDCM's nor the skills to use them). Keep in mind my mining skills aren't maxed out and I can't use Tech II crystals yet though. I got these results for mining a single cycle (3 mins.) of Concentrated Veldspar: Strip Miner I: 9073 Modulated Strip Miner II (without a crystal): 6048 Modulated Strip Miner II (with Tech I Veldspar crystal): 9829 As far as I know the MDCMII bonuses work exactly the same, so it does indeed seem like it's just the speciality mining amount that's being calculated. This corresponds exactly to the specs listed when I right-click the items in the fitting screen: Strip Miner I mining amount: 907.2 units Modulated Strip Miner II mining amount: 604.8 units Modulated Strip Miner II specialty crystal mining amount: 982.8 All in all, a Strip Miner II with a Tech I crystal will mine about 8.3% more than an ordinary Strip Miner I.

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1687.5m3/min