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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
450
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Posted - 2013.06.20 10:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gatecampers shouldn't need to watch the other side of a gate but anyone passing through it should. Moreover, gatecampers shouldn't even need to pay attention to the gate in order to know when someone has used it - the gate should just automatically tell them.
Alrighty then. Next whine, please. |
Qdlaty
Quantum Link Company
0
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Still not enough flames i see, c'mon forum / eft warriors , i am disappointed .
Anyhow , i was not looking for comments " how to " , the post is to let CCP know that they screwing things while introducing new "improvements" some of them good some not so good . In patch notes there was nothing about taking away gate flash/sound , or quieter shield/armor/hull warning sounds (but this is separate issue which apparently will be fixed soon according to GM who according to some i cant quote ( as it might be something embarrassing in what they say).
So prompting again devs to respond please on the stated issue.
Thx
Qd
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Gatecampers shouldn't need to watch the other side of a gate but anyone passing through it should. Moreover, gatecampers shouldn't even need to pay attention to the gate in order to know when someone has used it - the gate should just automatically tell them.
Alrighty then. Next whine, please.
you're talking trash right there, maybe you should try to play eve besides of mining.
Passioate gatecampers will put a scout at all gates and have no issues with getting intel about incoming ships - solo or few people taking opportunity fights on gates (you know, one of the few places you could find people at) on the contrary, eventually will!!
I'm flying a sabre a lot and sometimes I dont have a scout right where I suspect people incoming from, so I need to pay attention to the fight itself while watching at the gate. this sucks! |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
450
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Funny thing, that. I don't even own a mining ship and you can find dozens of my posts around the forums talking openly about my distaste for mining and my general contempt for miners. It's amusing how anyone who disagrees with a gatecamper is instantly dismissed as doing nothing but mining.
Even as you say it's unreasonable to have a scout on the other side of a gate, you say "passionate gatecampers will put a scout at all gates". What's the problem then with continuing to do exactly what they already do?
I think the crux of your problem lies in the end of your last phrase: "I need to pay attention to the fight itself while watching at the gate. This sucks!" Perhaps it does, when compared to how it used to be under the "effortless gate intel" of pre-Odyssey times.
I'll tell you something else that sucks. Jumping into a gatecamped system and the gatecamp knowing you're there even before you've loaded the grid. Knowing that you will have exactly one, maybe two seconds to either get cloaked or get into warp or else you're popped and probably podded. What sucks worse than that is how the gatecamp pre-Odyssey didn't even need to be watching EVE. They could be alt-tabbed entirely, maybe watching something on YouTube with the volume in EVE turned up. That is what sucks. Evading a gatecamp required 100% of your attention and a bit of skill besides that unless you were flying something with a covert cloak - and even then there wasn't any guarantee. Now the ball has shifted a bit into the other court - gatecampers now have to pay attention to what they're doing or else their prey will escape, just like their prey has to pay attention lest it be caught.
Effort in, results out. You get what you give. If you're fighting on the gate, you'll just have to accept the fact that anyone or anything could potentially come through that gate and be ready to deal with it - just like everyone else has to deal with the fact that someone may warp in on them in a cloaky tackler at any time despite their best Dscanning efforts. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
you're talking about gatecampers like it's something totally abhorrent and unhonourful thing to do. fact is gates are basically the only choke points where you can catch people moving, apart of ratters in belts or anomalies. Shouldnt be news for you, this is a poor side of eve.
Second fact is as you eventually nerfed some lazy gatecampers tabing out their scouts, a bigger issue spawned what I described earlier. If you're solo and dont employ an army of scouts, you're pretty nerfed with new gate mechanics, since you cant easily spot gate fire, if you got baited and some nasty dude jumped the gate right after you engaged in fight which requires your whole attention in the first line.
In odyssey you dont have a chance to see gate activation even if not tabbed out but using multiple screens like I do, simply because gates dont offer any noticeable feedback anymore, you would have to closely watch them all the time on multiple screens, whats totally ridiculous IMO. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
450
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
No, I'm talking about gatecampers like they've had virtually all the advantages up until now and are squealing like stuck pigs now that one of their advantages has been taken from them. Nobody's talking about honor in EVE - or at least I don't think anyone is. As for "getting used to it", I don't know about others but every gate I jump in lowsec is assumed to be watched by a cloaky scout unless there isn't anyone else in Local.
I won't address the comment about bait too much, since an indirect buff to baiting doesn't seem like a bad thing to me and I haven't more to say about it.
The only way I can imagine you won't see gate activation is if you're playing so far zoomed out that you can't even see the gate at all. I've spent plenty of time watching all the various types of stargates because I was in fact curious if the destination side showed anything at all. Unless you're not able to see the gate even a little bit, there's definitely noticeable electrical discharge effects and brighter-than-normal glow.
Since stargates are important to your particular experience in EVE, perhaps the key for you will be to spend a bit of time familiarizing yourself with their new behavior rather than demanding they be returned to the old way - you know, that "adapt or die" thing. It's a popular saying among PvPers when their potential targets and/or people they look down upon react negatively to a change. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Speaking of scouts and their power you complain about, why do you expect surviving a camp you jump unscouted into in a wrong ship? Dont you honestly think the expectation of game mechanics supporting uncareful travel in dangerous areas against people who at least do prepare themselves in some way, be it tabbed out scouts at gates or whatever, is a bit too ballsy? |
Nova Satar
Hax.
Game Over.
140
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:From an immersion point of view, why the hell should the gate flash when someone jumps in?
It flashes when someone jumps out because it is flinging them across space. When someone jumps in, the destination stargate isn't actually doing anything at all. The only reason you land on grid with a stargate when you jump into a new system is to increase player interaction. There's no reason at all in the lore why a stargate should have to drop you anywhere near to the return stargate so stop whining and pay attention. You should be thanking CCP for making the game more challenging and thus further separating the noobs from the competents.
Spot on. Pretty interesting that EVE now genuinely feels that way. You havent jumped through the gate at all, you;ve actually just warped to it, albeit from much further away than normal!
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Volition Cult
447
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
Came expecting gate camp nerf whines. Wasn't disappointed. Think I'll stick around a while. This is entertaining banter *grabs popcorn*
Personally, having been in several gate camps in the last few days, I can't see the problem. We didn't have any issues with it but then we have always had cloaked eyes up the pipe for intel so I guess the change (which I haven't noticed, truth to tell) hasn't affected us.
Anyway, don't mind me, please continue :) |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Came expecting gate camp nerf whines. Wasn't disappointed. Think I'll stick around a while. This is entertaining banter *grabs popcorn*
Personally, having been in several gate camps in the last few days, I can't see the problem. We didn't have any issues with it but then we have always had cloaked eyes up the pipe for intel so I guess the change (which I haven't noticed, truth to tell) hasn't affected us.
Anyway, don't mind me, please continue :)
this is what I'm saying. Organized gatecampers dont give a fck, solo people or tiny gangs are nerfed once again.
~inb4 eve is MMO argument~ from a guy who expects game mechanics to support his solo travel... |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
452
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Speaking of scouts and their power you complain about, why do you expect surviving a camp you jump unscouted into in a wrong ship? Dont you honestly think the expectation of game mechanics supporting uncareful travel in dangerous areas against people who at least do prepare themselves in some way, be it tabbed out scouts at gates or whatever, is a bit too ballsy?
I'm talking about a noticeable feedback of gate actuvations, not a lil discharge effects which require you to concentrate and actively watch the gate drawing your attention from the fight itself if you dont want to miss someone entering system. You punish solo people more than you gimp gankers tbh, they would spot you on the other side anyways where scouts usually are not on the in-side of gates where the jump effect has been removed.
I'm not complaining about the power of scouts. I'm not sure where you got the idea from that I am.
I fully expect to run into an alert, attentive gatecamp and lose my ship every time I jump a gate in lowsec - even when it's my Blockade Runner. To be quite honest, I expect to run into someone else and lose the ship every time I warp to anything in lowsec. I check the star map for all the relevent data it can provide me, check it again, check it one more time and then assume it's probably out-of-date.
Those who are prepared should definitely have an advantage over those who are not prepared. Game mechanics, however, should not serve to artificially tip the scales of balance in favor of one side or the other. An attentive, prepared traveler can escape from a gatecamp. An attentive, prepared gatecamp can catch people going through it.
Alt-tabbed scouts are not scouts. They're AFK. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Alt-tabbed scouts are not scouts. They're AFK.
they are more scouts than checking starmap and jumping into lowsec hoping for unaware campers not watching the gate with a telescope in the exact 5 seconds of almost invisible animation.
And you keep completely ignoring the core issue I adressed multiple times yet, its not gate campers, they dont care. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Volition Cult
447
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Tchulen wrote:Came expecting gate camp nerf whines. Wasn't disappointed. Think I'll stick around a while. This is entertaining banter *grabs popcorn*
Personally, having been in several gate camps in the last few days, I can't see the problem. We didn't have any issues with it but then we have always had cloaked eyes up the pipe for intel so I guess the change (which I haven't noticed, truth to tell) hasn't affected us.
Anyway, don't mind me, please continue :) this is what I'm saying. Organized gatecampers dont give a fck, solo people or tiny gangs are nerfed once again. ~inb4 eve is MMO argument~ from a guy who expects game mechanics to support his solo travel...
Ah, ok, yeah that is a fair point actually. This does affect solo players and whilst some people might counter with "well they should have a scout alt" I don't see that as a valid argument. People shouldn't be forced to buy a second account to be able to play.
Mind you, without a flash it doesn't stop solo gate campers. It just means they have to be permanently on the ball, which is the way it should be really. Things should always be easier with multiple people but possible solo. This is the way gatecamping is currently, isn't it? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
452
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Alt-tabbed scouts are not scouts. They're AFK.
they are more scouts than checking starmap and jumping into lowsec hoping for unaware campers not watching the gate with a telescope in the exact 5 seconds of almost invisible animation. And you keep completely ignoring the core issue I adressed multiple times yet, its not gate campers, they dont care.
I never claimed that my method constituted any sort of scouting, but I would say that actively attempting to gather intel is more scouting than wanting to have AFK ships passively feeding you information you needn't even look at the screen for.
The core issue you address.. ah yes, fighting on the gate. The fact that you're busy focusing on the fight instead of watching the gate and feel you need to be given an unmistakable warning that someone else has entered the fray.
No. You decided to engage on a gate. Suck it up. I hate resorting to that, but it's really the way it is. You chose to take bait, deal with the consequences. You know the gate animation has been changed, factor that in when you decide whether or not to attack that shiny bait ship. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
people should be on the ball all the time right but even the gateflash and local spike is easily missed in the middle of a fight, now you need to stare at the gate if you dont want to miss its activation neglecting everything els - how is this not too much of being on the ball? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I never claimed that my method constituted any sort of scouting, but I would say that actively attempting to gather intel is more scouting than wanting to have AFK ships passively feeding you information you needn't even look at the screen for..
you always need to look at screen, gate sound didnt tell you whether it was jump in or out of system - so pretty void argument.
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The core issue you address.. ah yes, fighting on the gate. The fact that you're busy focusing on the fight instead of watching the gate and feel you need to be given an unmistakable warning that someone else has entered the fray.
No. You decided to engage on a gate. Suck it up.
where do you engage people if not on gates? Asteroid belts? Thats fine too but shouldnt be the only place.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
452
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
People going about their business in lowsec are expected to watch local, watch their Dscan, watch what they're doing, watch Dscan, watch their shield/armor/hull/cap/modules, watch their Dscan, look up information on pilots in local to see who's a threat and how much of one, watch their Dscan and did I forget to mention continually refreshing Dscan every two or three seconds to watch for combat probes that you might not even see if the hunter is good at what they do? Any suggestions to reduce the constant clicking of Dscan to free the pilot up for something else are met with ridicule and trolling.
Isn't that even more "being on the ball" than what you have to deal with? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
611
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:People going about their business in lowsec are expected to watch local, watch their Dscan, watch what they're doing, watch Dscan, watch their shield/armor/hull/cap/modules, watch their Dscan, look up information on pilots in local to see who's a threat and how much of one, watch their Dscan and did I forget to mention continually refreshing Dscan every two or three seconds to watch for combat probes that you might not even see if the hunter is good at what they do?
exactly what everyone else has to do basically when in space. So what?
This is what I need to do anyways, while fighting and staring at the gate in the same time since odyssey. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
175
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:People going about their business in lowsec are expected to watch local, watch their Dscan, watch what they're doing, watch Dscan, watch their shield/armor/hull/cap/modules, watch their Dscan, look up information on pilots in local to see who's a threat and how much of one, watch their Dscan and did I forget to mention continually refreshing Dscan every two or three seconds to watch for combat probes that you might not even see if the hunter is good at what they do?
Any suggestions to reduce the constant clicking of Dscan to free the pilot up for something else are met with ridicule and trolling.
Isn't that even more "being on the ball" than what you have to deal with? Why the disparity?
This. Really.
The problem is that the burden for 100% vigilance is put on the predators side of the fight for once, and they don't like that.
Even the argument that they have to do the same falls flat, as for the most part they are flying disposable guns that get less consideration than the toilet paper they last used, while they want to hunt high value targets with every advantages stacked completely in their favor. |
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