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Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
74
   |
Posted - 2013.06.05 16:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let me be upfront, I'm relatively indifferent to the hacking mini-game. To me, the fun value it adds is negligable to the isk/hour profit rating I can obtain through phat hacking lewtz. What is important to me is that I can make ISK, and that through my preparation I can make the ISK that I need to afford to PVP, my true love.
The new hacking system is fine with one exception: your level of preparation means nothing to your success in Hacking. This is fundamentally opposed to the EVE universe. I can't modify my virus, I can't improve its abilities, or prepare for the threats i'm likely to find in more difficult areas.
While I'm still learning this mini game, frankly, the difficulty of getting through 0.0 hacking sites, basically turns hacking in 0.0 into russian roulette with ISK and loot. I just ran a 0.0 radar site and frankly, the payout was worse than a lowsec one because you physically can't hack those sites with the virus provided to you unless the system core is the next node over from the start. Pilots should be rewarded for preparing to hack these 0.0 sites with a reasonable increment in site payout.
Players need a module based improvement to your viruses, or possibly a script system for your hacking module, that you can feed scripts into to give bonuses to your virus.
Also, could we make the interface a little less dark? |
Asarles
Hard Knocks Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 23:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I hacked quite a few WH cans in a drake with lvl 3 hacking, it's entirely possible, but extremely luck based overall IMO. Also I absolutely hate the new hacking/analyzing. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
117
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 23:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
L5 those Hacking Skills? Get a Hacking Bonus-ed Hull? Add Hacking Rigs?
If you've done all that then I'm behind your post, sorry if this comes across aggressively, it's not a flame post more a questions that need answers.
My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Asarles
Hard Knocks Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Training them to 5 as I type, but the only other hull besides a T3 is a cov-ops or a frig, and those aren't going to tank the cruiser. It would be nice to see at least a cruiser that gets a bonus to strength. As for now i'll just keep spam clicking in hopes of hitting the core before i lose. |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 22:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've had hacking level 5, and i was using a bonused exploration frigate. Didn't try the rigs, but tbh, I didn't even know such rigs existed. Regardless, getting all skills to 5, and being UBER MAXXED shouldn't be a prerequisite to getting into 0.0 anything.
that statement by superfriends is simply laughable. Before, hacking 5 guranteed a consistant success rate. This new system in its current itteration is all hit-and-miss luck, rather than hard preparation and decent, honest work. |
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CCP Bayesian
836
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Posted - 2013.06.06 22:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback, it chimes well with what we are considering doing over the summer. The devblog I wrote linked earlier has a section on how we want to improve things. On top of which there are lots of ideas floating around within our team and on other teams about expanding hacking outside of exploration, although I hope keeping its exploration roots.
EVE Software Engineer
Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
The Mockers AO
1271
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 23:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Thanks for the feedback, it chimes well with what we are considering doing over the summer. The devblog I wrote linked earlier has a section on how we want to improve things. On top of which there are lots of ideas floating around within our team and on other teams about expanding hacking outside of exploration, although I hope keeping its exploration roots.
We're going to work on the usability of the UI as well. I'll be back to explain more and solicit feedback in the next couple of weeks.
The major issue I have is that you really need to have a science vessel to do them. I understand that it gives them purpose, which is AWESOME, but at the same time it makes running the sites without them totally meh. I would like the possibility to do so. Maybe rigs that give my virus a bonus, or so on. I'm sure these are things you can and will cover moving forward. But the general consensus for me is that you need to give a little wiggle room on using non-science vessels. They should be the best at it, but impossible to do without them seems excessive.
Where I am. |
Suicidal Blonde
Alchemical Aquisitions
47
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 00:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
an idea i liked was a practice game in the CQ. variable difficulty no reward. just to sharpen our skills and find out if it is luck based or if there is some way to improve completion rates.
also, and sorry to bring this up here but separating it from loot pinata would help its public image.
cheers. |
Kor'el Izia
59
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 01:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
But did you have the EY-1005 hardwiring? It gives a reduction in cycle time for analyzers which is super helpful if you keep failing... dare I say it should be updated? And why is Astrometic Rangefinding a rank 8 when Pinpointing and Acquisistion is 5? |
MODEL 6296
Cracken-109
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 01:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
 not liking the time consuming luck base(throw your skills out the door) distracting from whose is in local that could pod you
want to gamble I go to a casino  |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 03:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
As far as the loot piniata problem goes, I don't mind that mechanic, I can practically get all the cans myself, and its fun to me. Let me reitterate:
The system is fine, the problem is that I can't actually use the system because its missing content in having modules and things that I can do to effect my chances of even getting TO the loot phase. Mainly with 0.0 sites, its next to impossible to hack the can with the virus given you. |
BlakPhoenix
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded
Darkspawn.
29
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 04:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Agreed that the pure changed based, RNG feel of hacking needs improving. I like the game itself, it's pretty and rewarding but only if chance is on your side, if not no matter how good you are you get punished because of bad luck and lose all your goodies. This unpredictable nature really makes it hard to bank on as a profession compared to other options. |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 04:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
BlakPhoenix wrote:Agreed that the pure changed based, RNG feel of hacking needs improving. I like the game itself, it's pretty and rewarding but only if chance is on your side, if not no matter how good you are you get punished because of bad luck and lose all your goodies. This unpredictable nature really makes it hard to bank on as a profession compared to other options.
better said than what I said. simply put, there damn well better be some modules to fix this **** in the next point release. |
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
Tribal Band
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 04:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Asarles wrote:I hacked quite a few WH cans in a drake with lvl 3 hacking, it's entirely possible, but extremely luck based overall IMO. Also I absolutely hate the new hacking/analyzing. C5 sites that is.
Read the Sound Devblog people, There are hints in the soundscape of the hacking minigame as to what nodes are/have stuff. |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
55
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 05:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
It's not chanced based at all. Your skill levels, ship, modules and rigs affect your ability to hack/analyze the object.
Yes, you have to find the system core which is based on clicking the nodes until you find it, but the skills etc increase your virus strength and coherence which allows you to survive the various defenses the object throws at you.
Your personal skill comes in just knowing when to risk your strength and coherence fighting one of the defenses. Once I find a virus or firewall, I start clicking other nodes until all are blocked. Then I choose the defense that will open up the most nodes to me to fight. Once I figured out that plan, my success rate jumped significantly.
I would like to see skill, modules, ship and rigs have some effect on the duration of the loot spew though. I get the idea behind it, but I am finding it highly annoying. At most I can get all but four of the annoying little mini cans. Either that, of have the skills etc affect how quickly the little tractor beam locks onto and sucks in the mini cans. Or just get rid of the mechanic altogether. I can see it is a source of much rage.
Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 01:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:It's not chanced based at all. Your skill levels, ship, modules and rigs affect your ability to hack/analyze the object.
Only until you find out that you literally cannot push through those firewalls, because there were like 10 of them between you and the server node. Trust me, I've been hacking, I know how this system works, and frankly, it needs more attention ASAP.
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Kor'el Izia
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Blastil wrote:Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:It's not chanced based at all. Your skill levels, ship, modules and rigs affect your ability to hack/analyze the object. Only until you find out that you literally cannot push through those firewalls, because there were like 10 of them between you and the server node. Trust me, I've been hacking, I know how this system works, and frankly, it needs more attention ASAP.
Indeed, when running into four of them "restoration"(that boost other nodes) one after another until you die, and on the next try I kid you not, the first node had a wrench and the second explored node had the core  |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 15:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Thanks for the feedback, it chimes well with what we are considering doing over the summer. The devblog I wrote linked earlier has a section on how we want to improve things. On top of which there are lots of ideas floating around within our team and on other teams about expanding hacking outside of exploration, although I hope keeping its exploration roots.
We're going to work on the usability of the UI as well. I'll be back to explain more and solicit feedback in the next couple of weeks.
I must say, since my highly skeptical reviews per-Odyessy, the mini-game and can scatter are quite nice for a first round. (I'm probably biased by the fact that I'm enjoying killing people in these sites more than running them.) However, the original idea of making them co-op seems completely gone. Here's why: With a cargo scan and slow can speed, I know exactly which cans to collect and rarely lose anything of value. So, there's no point in having a friend along--unless that friend wants some, uh, metal scraps.
There are lots of ways to fix this, but I'm not sure what the best are:
-The value of loot in all "bad" cans (esp. equipment and scrap cans) could be increased. Perhaps those cans could drop large quantities of useful cheap mats--adding up to a few million plus or minus depending on the type of space. However, it would only be feasible to get those cans if you had a friend with you, both because of the number of cans total and because of the cargo size (perhaps) of the mats in the "bad" cans.
-Make the mini-games themselves optionally co-op. I have no idea how to make this work.
-The can drops could be completely randomized, so we did not know which cans contain what types of loot. This would make lots of people unhappy given that the current system allows easy cherry picking, though.
Also, I really like the idea of a science type vessel dedicated to these sites, particularly when these sites get iterated and on. E.g. a cruiser-size scanning ship with bonuses relevant to both scanning and hacking, and maybe some other unique features (a bonus to directional scan range perhaps?). |
auraofblade
Kid's Logistics Inc
League of Infamy
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 18:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've only really been cracking Highsec sites, but overall I'd say that the hacking mechanic is good enough - maybe attempting Low/Null sites may change my mind.
What I'm really annoyed by is Loot Spew, or rather the Loot Spew Pattern. It starts from a single point on the structure and then spews out at ~150 m/s. Why do I not like this? It makes it nearly impossible to figure out which can is what type when they initially spawn, and it can become very difficult to click on the cans themselves if your camera and ship aren't in the right position. I've managed to click-to-move more than a couple times while trying to snipe cans, only to have my ship get flung a mile away from the node...and out of range of every can.
I'd rather suggest that cans radiate from a number of locations on the structure, and do so at a far slower speed (like, 50 - 75 m/s). That way, they'd be spread out enough that I can immediately pick out individuals, and slow enough that I don't misclick on the space behind the can. |
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