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COMEGETSOME Shad0wtech 0	Posted - 2011.10.22 00:05:00 - [1] - Quote Yet again it looks like ccp completely mismanages another idea. Do they not care for the solo player base ? While i understand it is not the biggest part of their subscriber income, why at every oportunity do they seem to take more and more away from the player that wishes to play solo or in small groups. And before everyone starts spamming on how this is a multiplayer game yada yada yada , that is not how everyone wants to play. This new idea makes PI in low sec virtually unobtainable once certain parties decide to make it their decision to destroy said PI upgrades. Why not make these defendable with pos mods etc .At least give the smaller player a chance, but no,.. rip low sec from them , and then double high sec taxes...come on guys are there any valid reasons for this "balancing " mod.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 284	Posted - 2011.10.22 01:33:00 - [2] - Quote i too hate interactions with other players in an MMO
Joshua Vaughn Lampen Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 16	Posted - 2011.10.22 01:38:00 - [3] - Quote Andski wrote: i too hate interactions with other players in an MMO Wait there are other people? I assumed all the characters I see are really clever bots.
XXSketchxx Remote Soviet Industries 42	Posted - 2011.10.22 03:50:00 - [4] - Quote They didn't take anything away you self entitled moron. They simply made it so player interaction is rewarded over solo play, in a damn MMO. If you can't, handle it, get fuc*ked and biomass your character.
Shin'rohtak Tribunal Corsairs 6	Posted - 2011.10.22 04:24:00 - [5] - Quote The only thing that is changing is that someone has to put an office on that planet. Do it yourself or pay for a corp to set one up for you and protect it as well. Ya you'll pay what ever tax they setup. But its smaller than high sec if you find the right corp.
Dynast Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse 12	Posted - 2011.10.22 06:18:00 - [6] - Quote COMEGETSOME wrote: Yet again it looks like ccp completely mismanages another idea. Do they not care for the solo player base ? Flying solo does not mean you get to pretend everyone else doesn't exist.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 34	Posted - 2011.10.22 08:24:00 - [7] - Quote "Solo" play has always been difficult in Eve. I've been doing it on and off for years. And to call it "solo" is something of a misnomer. We're all in the same sandbox competing for resources, sometimes directly and sometiems indirectly through the markets. If some people choose not to team up and instead remain individuals, then that is their choice. Only the most mind numb collectivist sheep consider individual play to be "playing it wrong".
COMEGETSOME Shad0wtech 0	Posted - 2011.10.22 08:36:00 - [8] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: "Solo" play has always been difficult in Eve. I've been doing it on and off for years. And to call it "solo" is something of a misnomer. We're all in the same sandbox competing for resources, sometimes directly and sometiems indirectly through the markets. If some people choose not to team up and instead remain individuals, then that is their choice. Only the most mind numb collectivist sheep consider individual play to be "playing it wrong". ignoring the obvious trolls , thank you for a sensible response. Yes i suppose solo play is a misnomer, when meaning "prefer not to be in a corp of random people " i like to keep corp matters tight nit. As above posts prove assholes abound in eve (WHAT...!!! YOUR NOT PLAYING MY WAY YOUR DOING IT WRONG mentality)and like to be very vocal about it. Obviously its an MMO ive been playing for 8 years and have made a few friends along the way, but as treachery in eve is supported and encouraged , i prefer to keep things small. Hence i do not get ripped off betrayed and stabbed in the back..Sorry if this seems wierd
scrambled Viziam Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2011.10.22 16:51:00 - [9] - Quote Thing is that right now with PI, you can pretty much waltz up to any planet, plonk your stuff down, and enjoy the benefits without risk. Having player owned customs posts means that you now have to deal with whoever claims to own the planet; and either they'll tax you to death, or they'll be willing to strike a good deal for you depending on whether taxes are a global thing or customisable per corp/alliance/character. The benefits are that in nullsec, people "owning" the planets now get some addtional income, in lowsec there's now a reason to actually stake a claim to a chunk of it, which leads to more pew pew, and in highsec, well, you want PI and safety? You gots ta pay the man. In other words: grab your balls, and PI in lowsec.
Sub Prime Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.10.22 17:41:00 - [10] - Quote What is it with people telling other how to play EVE? It's a SANDBOX!! I actually think the high/null changes are right but low-sec are too biased against solo/small corp players.
Naga Tokiba Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.10.22 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote I do aggree - allthough EVE Onlune is an MMO, there is a base of solo players, me included, and I would like the same posibilities as a corp - my own pos and the like, but unfortunately, this is not possible due to the redicilus war dec mechanics in hi-sec. During the past few years, I have suggested quite a few time, a "small corp protection act", where corps with for example less than 10 players, can choose not to be decked, but to no avail, sadly.
Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2011.10.22 20:17:00 - [12] - Quote Joshua Vaughn Lampen wrote: Andski wrote: i too hate interactions with other players in an MMO Wait there are other people? I assumed all the characters I see are really clever bots. We're not bots, we're all Chribba alts.
XXSketchxx Remote Soviet Industries 43	Posted - 2011.10.22 23:31:00 - [13] - Quote Sub Prime wrote: What is it with people telling other how to play EVE? It's a SANDBOX!! I actually think the high/null changes are right but low-sec are too biased against solo/small corp players. No one tells solo players to play a certain way; they're just so damn butthurt and insecure that they assume everyone hates them and wants them to play a different way. I have no problem with solo players. But solo players that cry that the game doesn't cater to them 100%? Thats crap. Its an MMO. The game accommodates solo players, but rewards interaction much greater than solo play.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 36	Posted - 2011.10.23 06:35:00 - [14] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: I have no problem with solo players. But solo players that cry that the game doesn't cater to them 100%? Thats crap. Its an MMO. The game accommodates solo players, but rewards interaction much greater than solo play. Have to agree with the basic sentiment of this. Real life is the same, you can run a little business all by your self and perhaps do quite well. But when you add another person, the profit possibility goes above what each of you could earn alone. My main gripe with Eve and lonewolf play is travel mechanics. To be solo and be sneaky in that "han solo" kinda way, in a ship that can carry any amount of volume, the options become very limited very fast. It is not a black and white brick wall, but it's a steep gradient. This recent change to PI, though I think overall it'll make the game more interesting for corps, does create even more of a barrier for the lonewolf. It is my hope the smuggling thing happens. This would be good for lonewolves where being small, and using small fast little ships, and not having the overhead of others slowing you down, would be an advantage. Too much of Eve is zerg blob more bigger is better, when it should not always be the case. It's good to have rock paper scisors in PVP, it's also good to have it in play styles from PVE to markets.
Emma Royd Maddled Gommerils 4	Posted - 2011.10.23 06:35:00 - [15] - Quote Personally, I think the low-sec changes are the wrong changes, I don't use them, I think a better system could have been planned. High-Sec - as per the current planned change, doubled fees Low-Sec - keep the fees as they are now, or maybe reduce them to lower than they are now as an incentive if people want the hassles of low-sec Null-Sec - Corp Owned customs offices, as long as they can't stop people using them, just set the tax rate up to what they want (I've not looked that closely at the devblog to see if they can stop people using them) Granted, eve is a Massively Multiplayer game, but it shouldn't limit people that much who don't want to join a corp, there are benefits and drawbacks to corps - especially to a new player, tax, wardecs, egotistical leaders, but the benefits are teamwork, potential knowledge gained, and a chance to experience other parts of game play you might not have thought about. I spent a while when I started solo, and have spent plenty of time in corps, and in my own little corp with my alts, and when I get bored of one type, I'll look for the other. I don't knock anyone for being in a corp, nor do I knock anyone for staying in the rookie corp for as long as they want, my subscription fees are no more or less valuable than theirs. I've lived in Null, Low (when jaspet was worth mining ), and High, personally I dislike lowsec, but that's just me, I can't see the attraction now, there's not enough reward for the risk, but that's my opinion, others may have a totally different one and that's fine. There are too many people saying that others must play the game this way, that way, and the other way, but it's up to the person who pays the bills, to decide how they play.
Sub Prime Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.10.23 07:19:00 - [16] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: Sub Prime wrote: What is it with people telling other how to play EVE? It's a SANDBOX!! I actually think the high/null changes are right but low-sec are too biased against solo/small corp players. No one tells solo players to play a certain way; they're just so damn butthurt and insecure that they assume everyone hates them and wants them to play a different way. I have no problem with solo players. But solo players that cry that the game doesn't cater to them 100%? Thats crap. Its an MMO. The game accommodates solo players, but rewards interaction much greater than solo play. I agree with you too, but that's not what the OP said. And the OP is correct. More and more is being taken away from solo players and small groups. The problem is that solo players/small groups don't have a large voice, alliances do. Look at the voting for CSM and the voting for change priority; there is way too much block voting. Nobody looks after the small fry.
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo 23	Posted - 2011.10.23 08:22:00 - [17] - Quote I'm a solo player myself in a game meant for multi-player. But unlike you whining ******** I'm looking forward to these changes, because nothing is more boring than a constant game play. Click this. Get that. BOOOOORING!!!!! Train for a cloaked transporter and get through those lousy gate camps by wannabies or loose it against pros. But then you had at.least some exiting moments in EVE
Sizeof Void Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2011.10.23 08:32:00 - [18] - Quote COMEGETSOME wrote: ... and then double high sec taxes... My high sec friends are all laughing. Do you know how low the high sec PI taxes are? Double nothing is still nothing.
Sub Prime Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.10.23 10:27:00 - [19] - Quote Lutz Major wrote: I'm a solo player myself in a game meant for multi-player. But unlike you whining ******** I'm looking forward to these changes, because nothing is more boring than a constant game play. Click this. Get that. BOOOOORING!!!!! Train for a cloaked transporter and get through those lousy gate camps by wannabies or loose it against pros. But then you had at.least some exiting moments in EVE How about reading his post? Getting into low-sec isn't the issue, it's what's happening with PI customs houses.
Suki Okiwana Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.10.23 15:00:00 - [20] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: Sub Prime wrote: What is it with people telling other how to play EVE? It's a SANDBOX!! I actually think the high/null changes are right but low-sec are too biased against solo/small corp players. No one tells solo players to play a certain way; they're just so damn butthurt and insecure that they assume everyone hates them and wants them to play a different way. I have no problem with solo players. But solo players that cry that the game doesn't cater to them 100%? Thats crap. Its an MMO. The game accommodates solo players, but rewards interaction much greater than solo play. Wow easy comrade, it is actually you who assumes a lot. That picture you just painted of these people speaks volumes of you but nothing of them. If your answers can't go beyond 'this is EVE' and 'this is an MMO' just punch yourself in the face instead of typing. It is perfectly acceptable to support group over solo play in instances where a choice has to be made. This is not the case here. No developer in his right mind should restrict players to a certain style of play where alternatives are readily available yet CCP for some reason says 'get in a big corp or get back to high sec'.
Killstealing Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild 63	Posted - 2011.10.23 15:56:00 - [21] - Quote remove empire PI all those factories and extractors are bad for the health of empire citizens think about all those minmatar kids
XXSketchxx Remote Soviet Industries 48	Posted - 2011.10.23 16:17:00 - [22] - Quote Suki Okiwana wrote: It is perfectly acceptable to support group over solo play in instances where a choice has to be made. This is not the case here. No developer in his right mind should restrict players to a certain style of play where alternatives are readily available yet CCP for some reason says 'get in a big corp or get back to high sec'. This statement is one giant contradiction. Its rather amusing.
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 81	Posted - 2011.10.23 16:36:00 - [23] - Quote Welcome to New Eden. It is a cold, ruthless and cutthroat place. The denizens are even moreso in most instances. In short, life here is not meant to be easy, considering the entire cluster is effectively a dystopian society that is fighting over resources due to the fact that they are cut off from Earth due to the collapse of the EVE wormhole. Adapt and survive, remain stagnant and die. It's as simple as that. When CCP released the changes to PI, the only thing I saw was yet another opportunity to make profit. Call it selfish reasoning, but it is what it is. If you want to do PI in low sec, either set up out there, or cut a deal with an established group out there. The positives on this concept far outweigh the negatives. You can either bolster your Corp Wallet by doing this for your Corp, or you can bolster your own Wallet if you set it up on your own. And if you're not opposed to the thought, form some friendships with other Corps, or get into an Alliance that shares your goals. If none of the above appeals to you, stay in highsec, and quit your ****ing. Risk v. Reward. Most of the time, more risk equates to more reward. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."*
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo 23	Posted - 2011.10.23 18:54:00 - [24] - Quote Sub Prime wrote: Lutz Major wrote: I'm a solo player myself in a game meant for multi-player. But unlike you whining ******** I'm looking forward to these changes, because nothing is more boring than a constant game play. Click this. Get that. BOOOOORING!!!!! Train for a cloaked transporter and get through those lousy gate camps by wannabies or loose it against pros. But then you had at.least some exiting moments in EVE How about reading his post? Getting into low-sec isn't the issue, it's what's happening with PI customs houses. I wasn't only referring to the OPs post. I was referring to the blind-folded people who cannot see new opportunities: when something gets destroyed, it must be replaced! Or how about that: there are 23 (!) low-sec systems where there were no jumps within the last 48 hours! And 3 of them had no jumps the last 7 days. You do not even know how easily a CO can be destroyed, once it's out of reinforced mode and yet you go: OH MY GOD! If it's easy: pay a freaking merc group to get rid of one so you can place your own POCO. If it's hard nobody does it for fun on a large scale. There are 9000 planets in high, 7000 planets in low and 50000 planets in zero-zero (including W-space). I'm sure you will find your spot in the universe.
Ad'Hakim Tahous Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.10.24 00:09:00 - [25] - Quote Redactions to Jack Carrigan's reply Jack Carrigan wrote: ........If you want to do PI in low sec, either set up out there, or cut a deal with an established group out there. The positives on this concept far outweigh the negatives. You can either bolster your Corp Wallet by doing this for your Corp, or you can bolster your own Wallet if you set it up on your own........ If low-sec operations do not appeal to you, the quote from Jack Carrigan's post certain applies. 1) You can rely on Traders and middle-market-makers to apply enough pressure on Bid/Ask pricing to exert influence on the levels of taxation that will be applied over time to import/export tariffs on P0 thru P2 production in low-sec 2) Watch the markets before/after the expansion to track price trends & adjust P3 & P4 high-sec production accordingly. 3) With time to spare before the expansion, you might consider seeking out the in-game chat channels w/ a focus on trade.... meet some high-end traders, learn the ropes, and explore setting up some L/T arrangements for PI mats you need. And... if you are convinced that certain PI products are going to have their prices Utterly Borked for the weeks immediately following the expansion, perhaps a few steady & judicious Buy Orders might be worth consideration. NOT being a smart ass w/ this final thought: If you are a producer, you have to be conversant with markets so just consider this.... Constants aren't, variables freeze, and Traders are Ferengi! Best of luck. Ad'H
cap Mal Defense Advanced Research Program Agency 0	Posted - 2011.10.24 01:09:00 - [26] - Quote All the butt hurt people complaining about the changes to PI are like people complaining that it isn't fair that they can't claim sov or mine the good moons in 0.0 solo or that they missed the t2 BPO lotteries. It is all conjecture that this will be a pain in the ass for the solo player. There is a lot of space out there. Also, are you all expecting that they will leave it at this and not further change and evolve the whole thing? This is the whole point of DUST more or less in relation to EVE. There will be lots of opportunities for solo players to get a piece. People with a brain, solo players with a brain, will realize that this is a great opportunity to both make money and have more rewarding game play. The game evolves and improves and changes. Sometimes you may find that the change is not to your liking, there is still a crap tonne of stuff to do otherwise. Deal wiz it.
Jiska Ensa School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 17	Posted - 2011.10.24 01:27:00 - [27] - Quote Does anyone besides me remember the "solo playerbase" complaining that they had to pay more for 1-man-corp pos fuel when Tyrannis came out, whining "doesn't ccp care about solo players?" And then Level 5's were nerfed back to low-sec, and they cried "doesn't ccp care about solo players?" And then Incursions were hard and required lots of friends to do and they cried "doesn't ccp care about the solo players?" And now PI is being made more profitable for those who can control low-sec/those who can get on the good side of those who control low-sec, and they're crying "don't ccp care about us solo players?" I think the solo players should really take a hint.
cap Mal Defense Advanced Research Program Agency 0	Posted - 2011.10.24 01:43:00 - [28] - Quote Quote: And now PI is being made more profitable for those who can control low-sec/those who can get on the good side of those who control low-sec, and they're crying "don't ccp care about us solo players?" No one controls low sec. That is the beauty of it.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 421	Posted - 2011.10.24 03:44:00 - [29] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: They didn't take anything away you self entitled moron. They simply made it so player interaction is rewarded over solo play, in a damn MMO. If you can't, handle it, get fuc*ked and biomass your character. Living proof anonimity makes you stupid. The problem is that they're taking away one of the few remaining bits of quiet "me time" in Eve. Sometimes you want to be online but outside the regular group grinding. Besides, it doesn't make sense for PI to go from something in your own control to being in control of a corporation that can completely shut you off from it if they wish. Hell, I'm a CEO and I don't want that power. It's too much. It goes too far. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Fiedems Capital Industries Research And Development Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2011.10.24 04:19:00 - [30] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Besides, it doesn't make sense for PI to go from something in your own control to being in control of a corporation that can completely shut you off from it if they wish. This is the part that I do not like. Having to depend on others to obtain, place, and defend a CO. Recruiter for CIRAD http://cirad.f-con.us/ We are always looking for good pilots, join CIRAD PUBLIC to chat.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance 340	Posted - 2011.10.24 06:59:00 - [31] - Quote Inappropriate and offtopic posts removed. Please keep the discussion civil. CCP Spitfire \| Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire

Gheng Kondur Serva Fidem 14	Posted - 2011.10.24 07:31:00 - [32] - Quote The OP is right and the same applies to small corps too. The only thing this really does is allow for setting up a big 'kick me' sign in low sec, and there are always people willing to do that. 0.0 and WH, fine, why should there be COs there already. But low sec which is supposed to be controlled by a faction (at least to some extent) that faction would give up tax rights and sit back to watch people blowing these things up. Might as well start calling low sec 0.0 without the sov system and protections that apply. High Sec tax I don't like (who does like taxes) but my corp move to a low sec pos and PI is now on hold as the choice of multiple planatray launches or launching at least half a bill worth of kick me signs does not appeal. I'll get there, it will just take longer, as long as CCP don't bring in more barriers
Via Shivon Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2011.10.24 08:57:00 - [33] - Quote Killstealing wrote: remove empire PI This! Level 4 Missis Producing Trading Pi ...sim eve with 99,9% secure not dieing
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo 23	Posted - 2011.10.24 09:06:00 - [34] - Quote Gheng Kondur wrote: ... But low sec which is supposed to be controlled by a faction (at least to some extent) that faction would give up tax rights and sit back to watch people blowing these things up. Might as well start calling low sec 0.0 without the sov system and protections that apply ... You are not very proficient in history, right? Prospectors were always private companies.
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 27	Posted - 2011.10.24 09:53:00 - [35] - Quote I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the PI changes will entail. In no way will it stop solo operations, it will simply make them a bit more expensive (I doubt that they would be more challenging) Here are the cases you will find yourself in: 1) Planet has no customs office two options: Install your own customs office Lauch payloads into deep space for collection instead 2) Planet has a customs office which you do not own (again two options) Pay the fees set by the owner of the customs office Lauch payloads into deep space for collection instead 3) Planet has your customs office in place Set whatever fees you fancy If attacked, either defend or abandon the structure Whatever path you chose you can still work solo - the only downside is that if you don't have access to a customs office there is no way to actually get materials back down onto a planet for processing. But hey that's what highsec is for.
Pooping Bear Balance of Judgment G Spot Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.10.24 09:58:00 - [36] - Quote Shin'rohtak wrote: The only thing that is changing is that someone has to put an office on that planet. Do it yourself or pay for a corp to set one up for you and protect it as well. Ya you'll pay what ever tax they setup. But its smaller than high sec if you find the right corp. Yes, but the problem is that only ONE can be anchored PER PLANET. Which means that the more valuble planets are going to host an exceptionally larger amount of killmails... i.e. camps, roamers deciding to get a few custom office kills, and/or entire goddamn wars. PI is now going to be on par with the contesting for moon resources. Granted, ther are a lot more planets of one type that moons with one type of material in them, but still. Lowsec will now become closer in intensity (in terms of territorial fighting) as nullsec, but in terms of profitability against missions in highsec or ratting in nullsec will still be far inferior. So, lowsec will now become a purely industrial venture. The solo player is not going to be able to do lowsec PI anymore. Say they somehow manage to get their hands on a Customs Office BPC and all the materials, and they build it, and claim a planet and work their PI. A few days later, a local corp or alliance blows it up and puts their own in. A few days later, another corp or allaince does the same thing. And then Goonswarm flies through and blows up all the offices in the system for LOLs. Repeat. If the Incursion/Faction Warfare requirement didn't exist, I'd be more OK with this. At least the Customs Offices would be more easily replenishable. However, CCP is now forcing people to do things that didn't end up as awesome as they had hoped in order to simply keep POSs running. It's unfair, to say the least.
Velicitia Open Designs 21	Posted - 2011.10.24 12:28:00 - [37] - Quote Pooping Bear wrote: Shin'rohtak wrote: The only thing that is changing is that someone has to put an office on that planet. Do it yourself or pay for a corp to set one up for you and protect it as well. Ya you'll pay what ever tax they setup. But its smaller than high sec if you find the right corp. Yes, but the problem is that only ONE can be anchored PER PLANET. Which means that the more valuble planets are going to host an exceptionally larger amount of killmails... i.e. camps, roamers deciding to get a few custom office kills, and/or entire goddamn wars. PI is now going to be on par with the contesting for moon resources. Granted, ther are a lot more planets of one type that moons with one type of material in them, but still. Lowsec will now become closer in intensity (in terms of territorial fighting) as nullsec, but in terms of profitability against missions in highsec or ratting in nullsec will still be far inferior. So, lowsec will now become a purely industrial venture. The solo player is not going to be able to do lowsec PI anymore. Say they somehow manage to get their hands on a Customs Office BPC and all the materials, and they build it, and claim a planet and work their PI. A few days later, a local corp or alliance blows it up and puts their own in. A few days later, another corp or allaince does the same thing. And then Goonswarm flies through and blows up all the offices in the system for LOLs. Repeat. If the Incursion/Faction Warfare requirement didn't exist, I'd be more OK with this. At least the Customs Offices would be more easily replenishable. However, CCP is now forcing people to do things that didn't end up as awesome as they had hoped in order to simply keep POSs running. It's unfair, to say the least. I fail to see the problem here. Let's say you're the solo dude, doing his own thing and we come across your POCO. Now, we're already managing a few planets, and really just need one or two items off your planet. You also need stuff that we produce... so, we have two (2) options really: 1. work together, come to some form of fair trade/use agreement. 2. blow your POCO away, and set up our own (adding yet another planet that we have to defend). After a corp has a few planets, which do you think they'd rather do?
XXSketchxx Remote Soviet Industries 54	Posted - 2011.10.24 14:24:00 - [38] - Quote Cyniac wrote: I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the PI changes will entail. In no way will it stop solo operations, it will simply make them a bit more expensive (I doubt that they would be more challenging) Here are the cases you will find yourself in: 1) Planet has no customs office two options: Install your own customs office Lauch payloads into deep space for collection instead 2) Planet has a customs office which you do not own (again two options) Pay the fees set by the owner of the customs office Lauch payloads into deep space for collection instead 3) Planet has your customs office in place Set whatever fees you fancy If attacked, either defend or abandon the structure Whatever path you chose you can still work solo - the only downside is that if you don't have access to a customs office there is no way to actually get materials back down onto a planet for processing. But hey that's what highsec is for. This is a really really good point and illustrates a good understanding of what CCP is trying to do with CO. They are trying to make them an asset in relation to PI that you have to protect. Essentially, by interacting with a planet you are "claiming it." Guess what? Claims have to be defended. Now, PI has player interaction if you want to really "claim" said planet. However, as noted, you can still deploy stuff to space. You can still "ninja" PI materials. Have your manufacture planets in high sec and ninja out the base stuff you extract and react on the planet (P1 items i thin k?). Is it more difficult than current status quo? Absolutely. But now there is one more thing to "claim" in low sec. And unlike high end moons, planets are not so great that 0.0 alliances will be coming in and claiming all of them. Rather, low sec corporations/alliances will be able to claim/fight over them. This is actually a damn good move on CCP's part.
Qalix Jump Frog 4	Posted - 2011.10.24 16:45:00 - [39] - Quote If the changes to customs offices bother you, you had better prepare yourself for next year. When DUST comes out, PI will be in the hands of the DUST mercs. The end result will eventually be that DUSTers control PI and thus outpost, POS, etc production. That is to say, the groundlings will indirectly control the sky kingdoms.
stoicfaux 315	Posted - 2011.10.24 17:05:00 - [40] - Quote Out of curiousity, how long will it take to setup and tear down a POCO? Will the cost of the POCO be low enough that it can just be added in as PI overhead on the balance sheets? And how likely is it that low-sec dwellers are the type to setup POCOs of their own in order to prevent a Planeteer from setting up a POCO just long enough to transport their PI goods out? Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
Dietrich VonMirat University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.10.24 20:19:00 - [41] - Quote The concept of the player owned structure fits well within the existing Eve framework, both thematically and practically. The OP is correct in that it will make low sec PI more difficult and/or more expensive for the solo player. That doesn't make it wrong, however. Any "improvement" to the game necessitates change, and those changes will invariably benefit some aspects and hinder others. In this case the transition of planets from a "magic bag of endless coins" to actual contested property is a huge step forward for realism. Does Eve cater slightly more toward collaboration and teamwork? Yes. So does capitalism, and so does life in general. -áSolo players, by virtue of their existence, thrive on self reliance and adaptability. -áThese same traits will weather them through the storm until they find a new profit/risk balance with PI.
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo 25	Posted - 2011.10.24 20:54:00 - [42] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Out of curiousity, how long will it take to setup and tear down a POCO? Will the cost of the POCO be low enough that it can just be added in as PI overhead on the balance sheets? And how likely is it that low-sec dwellers are the type to setup POCOs of their own in order to prevent a Planeteer from setting up a POCO just long enough to transport their PI goods out? Well according to the devblog and the materials needed, the material costs are _currently_ at or about 70 million. Plus the BPC, which you get in FW fo 10M or through CONCORD LP store 20M It's not exactly the build and tear down item.
DigDoug Amber Lamps Labs IMPERIAL LEGI0N 12	Posted - 2011.10.25 05:58:00 - [43] - Quote There is great potential here for a lot of repercussions that probably haven't been considered. IMO player owned customs offices should be tied directly into the soverignty system. Low sec should not have player owned offices. The tax rate for low sec and high sec should have a certain base which is then modified by your standings with the controlling faction. In Null Sec the offices should be tied to sov structures and invulnerable following the same rules and system that is already in place for attacking ihubs, tcu's and outposts. This not only lends to greater stability in the PI system but it also just makes a whole lot of sense because it follows in the same path of what has already been done.
Alain Kinsella 5	Posted - 2011.10.25 09:48:00 - [44] - Quote Also need to remember that the link capacity is being raised a lot. This could make single-planet P3 chains viable again - especially in Low. Been thinking about this a lot (as one of the disappointed folks), and will need to check SiSi soon, but I'm beginning to be swayed by the advantages here. Consider, if you're only generating 150-200 P3 or so each day, that's still within one CC launch (and only needs a CovOps to get it out, not a BR). That's much more economical for the starting player than the larger scale Low PI being done today. Will it be more dangerous? Oh hell yes. But nothing ventured, nothing gained... I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player. Just more subtle.
Vorpheus Three Sword Inc 0	Posted - 2011.10.25 10:04:00 - [45] - Quote i could guess that pandemic legion, after their claiming of the amamake system, are more than happy to allow you the usage of their customs-offices... for a price... see we just found out the truthness behind their acts in the minmatar lowsec... to increase the taxes... Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring Pandemic phone
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 435	Posted - 2011.10.25 12:55:00 - [46] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: Cyniac wrote: I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the PI changes will entail. In no way will it stop solo operations, it will simply make them a bit more expensive (I doubt that they would be more challenging) Here are the cases you will find yourself in: 1) Planet has no customs office two options: Install your own customs office Lauch payloads into deep space for collection instead 2) Planet has a customs office which you do not own (again two options) Pay the fees set by the owner of the customs office Lauch payloads into deep space for collection instead 3) Planet has your customs office in place Set whatever fees you fancy If attacked, either defend or abandon the structure Whatever path you chose you can still work solo - the only downside is that if you don't have access to a customs office there is no way to actually get materials back down onto a planet for processing. But hey that's what highsec is for. This is a really really good point and illustrates a good understanding of what CCP is trying to do with CO. They are trying to make them an asset in relation to PI that you have to protect. Essentially, by interacting with a planet you are "claiming it." Guess what? Claims have to be defended. Now, PI has player interaction if you want to really "claim" said planet. However, as noted, you can still deploy stuff to space. You can still "ninja" PI materials. Have your manufacture planets in high sec and ninja out the base stuff you extract and react on the planet (P1 items i thin k?). Is it more difficult than current status quo? Absolutely. But now there is one more thing to "claim" in low sec. And unlike high end moons, planets are not so great that 0.0 alliances will be coming in and claiming all of them. Rather, low sec corporations/alliances will be able to claim/fight over them. This is actually a damn good move on CCP's part. No it isn't. It shows a lack of understanding of how PI works. For example, how can someone in an npc corp, for example, that has PI set up in a neighboring low sec system with no POCO at the planet now lauch materials TO the planet for further refining? Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Inquisitor Magneto Bishop Intergalactic Ventures The Interstellar Contract Agency 2	Posted - 2011.10.25 13:47:00 - [47] - Quote Hmmm, while the OP has a nice point in playing solo, let us not forget what sort of game this is. I love this game for its many features and direct interaction. Its realness and not dumbing down the risk of actually flying in space. I to was a solo captain for many years. Lost lost of isk and ships in the play. Now i know better and understand the idea of playing with other and working together. As a solo person of 8 years you should know by now the risk of such an attribute. You can not have your cake and icecream. If you wish to play solo then no one is stopping you. CCP is just putting the crap out there for you to use in whatever way you want. As a solo player your charisma is suppose to be superb in making treaties and getting temp bands together for the greater good of your sector. As a solo player you should have a pos operational and decked out. Now solo play is just that. SOLO. you will be on your own. no one to back u up or help in time of need. no other brains to give you sound advice and basically you are a pirate. To actually think you are alone or solo is crazy ad you are always in a corp in this game but the illusion of solo i guess is cool. lol Frankly you cant ask to play solo and get mad or disturbed when ccp does something for the whole of the community. You as a solo player can make preparations for the change. I know i did when the IP system came online and i have taken advantage of its many changes and fronts since then. I say suck it up and figure out the best way to manage. its space. over 60,000 planets so uhmmm yeah. dont you have two character accounts anyway lol
Taedrin Kushan Industrial 127	Posted - 2011.10.25 14:35:00 - [48] - Quote The only concern that I have is "blobability". If defending a POCO is the same as defending a POS, except you don't have guns, then it will DEFINITELY involve blobs. If somehow CCP can engineer an encounter which favors small gangs over blobs, then it will be perfect. If not, then I fear that POCOs will become simply yet another resource which is controlled by large power blocs. After all, I could easily envision an entity like the goons or PL go around and control as many POCOs as possible, just so they can deny everyone else access to them. Not because they want more money, or because they want to use them - but just because they want to cause chaos.
cap Mal Defense Advanced Research Program Agency 0	Posted - 2011.10.25 15:11:00 - [49] - Quote The last thing PL and the Goons want to do is jump from low sec system to low sec system shooting at structures that don't shoot back. Grinding that kind of stuff gets old fast. And the income they could generate by spamming POCOs isn't worth it.
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 28	Posted - 2011.10.25 16:45:00 - [50] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: XXSketchxx wrote: Cyniac wrote: Whatever path you chose you can still work solo - the only downside is that if you don't have access to a customs office there is no way to actually get materials back down onto a planet for processing. But hey that's what highsec is for. This is a really really good point and illustrates a good understanding of what CCP is trying to do with CO. No it isn't. It shows a lack of understanding of how PI works. For example, how can someone in an npc corp, for example, that has PI set up in a neighboring low sec system with no POCO at the planet now lauch materials TO the planet for further refining? Highlighted the relevant part for you. I'd appreciate it if you took the time to read a text carefully before making misleading statements. You cannot put materials back in the planets - that's the only downside of the system that's proposed. You do raise an interesting point that NPC corp pilots will have to make a further choice, either leave the NPC corp or forgo the anchoring of structures (or be sneaky and convince someone to anchor the structures for them.)
XXSketchxx Remote Soviet Industries 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 17:59:00 - [51] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: No it isn't. It shows a lack of understanding of how PI works. For example, how can someone in an npc corp, for example, that has PI set up in a neighboring low sec system with no POCO at the planet now lauch materials TO the planet for further refining? Is that the only part of my post you read? Are you ******** or something? Re: high sec. Export your precious stuff to high sec and use the NPC customs offices. That was hard wasn't it?
bilingi Ghosts of the Storm 6	Posted - 2011.10.25 22:55:00 - [52] - Quote Man you really are stupid.. Or more likely a RMT allaince Botter.
Dietrich VonMirat University of Caille Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2011.10.26 19:01:00 - [53] - Quote I've seem some interesting questions posed here about the "attackability" of the POCO. Faction warfare has really shown us that many pvp/low-sec oriented players aren't into bunker bashing for the sake of bunker bashing. It can at times serve as a good way to pick a fight, but in most cases that requires that the bunker being bashed belongs to a sizeable enough force to warrant the time spent picking a fight. -áIf the POCO belongs to a solo player or small industrial corp, there is just no payoff to bunker bashing their structures unless it's an extremely valuable planet. The other reason might be that they are trying to stake out turf in low-sec, but this happens now anyway. It's true, there will be some Sunday funday fleets that like to shoot stuff up for the sake of aggravating commerce (or other players), but I think this will turn out to be the exception and not the rule. I think a slightly more significant threat to solo players comes with the issue of there being only one POCO per planet. -áThis makes a great ganking bottleneck. I think it's far more likely that low sec corps and players will leave most POCO's alone hoping for a chance to ganking the ship and player using it.
Ch33z0rz Aether Tech 2	Posted - 2011.10.27 04:43:00 - [54] - Quote Maybe I am the ******, but I can't find anything official about this proposed change. Linkage requested.
Steven Fonulique SF Incorporated 3	Posted - 2011.10.27 14:23:00 - [55] - Quote http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2899

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