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AbBaNdOn
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Posted - 2003.08.07 11:32:00 -
[1]
Why isnt there a class devoted to mining!! Its so stupid to see other types of ships especially ones that are suppose to be making $%^& blow up shooting lasers at rocks.
I think mining lasers need to be put into there own catagory and not be turrets. And then space ships need to list how many mining lasers they can carry if at all.
Industrial ships looked like they were suppose to be mining ships with there HUGE cargo space and huge cpu outage but they only have one slot?? Come on. And your telling me i can fit more drones on a frigate than on a industrial ship ???
Indy's need to have 4 hi slots and only allow mining lasers. Maybe increase the best indy of each race to be indy lv5 req and give it 6 slots or give it tons of drone space.
If transforming the indy's into mining ships is to much than atleast make some ships that are specific to mining and cant use weapons.
Also in the spirit of making mining better what if we could link to indy's so that are ore would go directly into their holds. Make it a skill that both people have to have. The different levels would determine what you could latch onto.
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Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2003.08.07 11:44:00 -
[2]
The game balance is fragile enough without implementing these game-destroying recommendations.
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Join eve-webring.com to promote your site. |
Hale Summers
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Posted - 2003.08.07 11:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hale Summers on 07/08/2003 11:52:52
ya i have to agree with you about that, but too many people invested too much time getting specific ships to mine and crap.
Just to tweak your idea... i think the next generation mining laser should only fit mining slots(a new type of slot). The mining slot will be only availible to next generation indy ships. This way when the new items come out, it put everyone on a even start. The next generation indy will be weak and slow with very few med and low slots so they need protection from combat ship (aka cruisers and bships).
What i would love to see in the interest of mining and teamwork is ships that interconnect. One player fly next generation mining ship with all the mining lasers, the second player with a next generation indy can connect to the mining ship. the mining dump all the ore in the indy. When the indy's full it disconnect and fly off, allowing another indy to take its place.
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LiverpoolFC
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:06:00 -
[4]
Yep I am sure a mining ship would be popular with a lot of people but all the ships available can be used as a miner some better than others. Mining is more effective in a group as most things in life (and Eve) are.
Many people use the Thorax to mine, I like my Osprey. If I went to a high risk zone then I would consider using a BS but it would depend on the group I was with.
What you want is a hauler with 3500 units of cargo space, 500 units of drone space and 4 mining laser turrets, plus some missile and gun turrets maybe?
In order to achive this get some mates and have 3 miners, 1 protector and 1 hauler. Mine for 3 hours and see how you do.
If you like working on your own then you have to life with the fact your not quite as effiecient as a a group.
Or you can wait until the mobile refineries are made available at some point in the distant future.
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Entity
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:09:00 -
[5]
Seems like you want an Armageddon.
Lots of turret slots, enough drone space, and a whopping 4174 cargo if you fit 8*local hull expanders.
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:25:00 -
[6]
I'm not keen on the idea of a forced specific mining ship - people should be able to mine in whatever they like. However, it does seem odd that there are no ship types that would be suitable to mining and very little else. After all, we extract oil offshore using drilling platforms, not SSBNs.
I agree that using battleships for mining is strangely perverse - I will of course change this view once the Royal Navy offer sight seeing trips of the Clyde on HMS Vanguard...
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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DeltaFlux
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:28:00 -
[7]
I do like the idea of a dedicated mining ship.
How about a cruiser that is modelled to look like a mining ship and has 5 laser slots and a load of drone space (maybe 1000 units since that would fit the maximum 10 harvesters), like the thorax, but has only 1 med-slot and 1 lo-slot, not much armour or shield and is a bit cheaper to build than the thorax. Maybe it would have a slightly larger cargo hold, something like
That way you'd get a dedicated miner without requiring any fundamental changes to the game mechanics.
On a more general note it feels like there aren't very many specialised cruisers. I hope when cloaking devices and the like are introduced they are made specific to certain ships to introduce more specialization.
No signature... yet. |
Scragg
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Posted - 2003.08.07 13:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Scragg on 07/08/2003 13:40:02
Edited by: Scragg on 07/08/2003 13:39:44
Make mining lasers their own slot type. So you have beam, missile, and industrial slot.
Limit battleships and cruisers to no more than half their high slots for industrial. There are some cases where a cruiser or battleship mining makes sense for the high end ores.
Allow no or maybe just one beam slot on industrial ships. Give the High end Indies in each race an extra high power slot so with the proper skill you can run 3 mining beams on them.
This opens up an entire new line of modules by the way. Mining beams would be the first industrial modules. You could add towing beams, repair modules (so you can fix other ships), maybe some kind of low end refining beam (a giant carbon arc beam that melts ore in space and you pick up the minerlas). You could turn the industrial ships into industrial ships instead of containers equiped with engines.
The seven mining beam battleship plus mining drones makes it possible to mine so fast it is going to hose the economy. I'm sure some die hard miners will scream about this but it makes sense.
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Jojin
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Posted - 2003.08.07 21:32:00 -
[9]
I agree it is sad to read the description of a vessel as being the pride of the navy and seeing it used as a working class miner.
ôBase A-67, please come in. This is Fighter Frigate patrol zero-niner-zero. I have just spotted an armada of enemy battleships hiding in an asteroid field.ö
ôThis is base A-67, the main fleet is 12 jumps away. They will not be able to reach us in time. We have issued evacuation orders for the station. Withdraw and get to safety.ö
ôRoger that Base. May the almighty be with us today and help us escape.ö
Meanwhileà
ôCommander, sensors have detected a fully armed frigate entering the asteroid field.ö
ôAttention all apocalypse mining vessels, this is commander Sarcasm, the enemy has discovered our mining operation. Abort all mining and retreat back to system FJ-842 before they attack and destroy us.ö
Or
ôThis is CNN Headline news. Today the Aircraft Carrier U.S.S. Sarcasm has docked after completing another successful mission. Many families rejoice at the homecoming as they are reunited with their loved ones. Reports estimate the mission yielded an additional 1.2 metric tons of tuna fish over prior fishing runs. This is indeed a record high for the fishing operationsà.ö
I dunno . . .
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.08.08 00:00:00 -
[10]
The USS?
Convert Stations
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.08.08 06:41:00 -
[11]
Now I agree with the original poster that mininglasers should not be under turrets, they should have their own hardpoint configuration.
This would allow ships to become more directed. As is the bigger the ship the better it is for mining... it would be better if a range of mining ships were incorperated into the industrial fleet, not by putting alot of high power slots on the current industrial÷s but by creating new ships, thise ships would have say 3 high power slots with the config 1 turret, 2 mining and have a cargo capacity ranging from round 1000 to 2000, however include a drone bay of say 200.
At the same time most cruisers would have mining slots reduced, the biggest and most powerfull would have the fewest making the smaller a possible choise for lo sec mining.
Battleships should have NO mining laser slots, I agree its just silly to get a B-ship to use it to chew rock.
Overpowering, well I think not, the new mining industrials (the name just feels right somehow) would have one advantage over their cruiser counterparts, a larger cargo capasity.
Lets use an example, minmatar ships:
the best miner according to the desc is the burst however most miners start out with the probe as it has a larger cargo capasity.
Minmatar cruisers:
yes there are small variations to the smaller cruisers but the main argument, no the only argument for not geting a rupture is cash, you want to get past frigates so you but the next up wich is usually the stabber.
As noone uses the scythe there will be no problem in allowing it to field 3 mining lasers still the same goes for the bellicose, it has the potential to be a great miner with its huge drone bay but as the rupture has close to the same drone bay and more hi slots it will now be passed by.
here I would let the scythe and belicose have 3 slots still and lower the stabber to 2 and rupture to 1 mining slot, the scythes position would be the same but for the others the effect would be dramatical, belicoses would come into use, the stabber would become a good miner guard, being only allowed to have 2 mining lasers it would leave 2 hi turret slots for guns, and the rupture would be a very weak miner.
All in all more of the smaller ships would come into play and I doubt people would make money faster than they do now.
As for the mining industrials, they should be extremely bulky and slow, I doubt more than 2 mining slots should be usable for any ship under industrial skill 4, possibly you could get in 3 mining lasers at lev 5, this would meen the smaller cruisers would me a good alternitive for mining but give the solominer a ship better suited for himself.
Battleships... well why would you use one to mine? they are battleships for crying out lowd.
Titans then... full throttle, thise should be able to do anything they want, 8 mining slots all the way :)
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Strangelove
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Posted - 2003.08.08 06:55:00 -
[12]
United States Ship
you landlubber 
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Dolgrathe Nackle
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Posted - 2003.08.08 07:41:00 -
[13]
 Quote:
United States Ship
you landlubber
 even in eve you lot think you will exist. So funny, as one of a few people I know in the UK that like Americans I find it so funny how you apply your views to everything.
You could have just put SS - star ship or CA Corporation Asset.
This is not a flame I just find it funny in a sad sort of way.
Dolgrathe
Member of the 'X-Corp Confederation'
Refining for the Future |
Starfire
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Posted - 2003.08.08 08:33:00 -
[14]
no let the ships be like they are, you all realize that there is something like mobile refineries coming to the shop near you soon(tm)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.08.08 11:47:00 -
[15]
I know what it means but as mentioned, this is EVE, leave the flag and chant at home...  
Convert Stations
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Kr'Kal
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Posted - 2003.08.08 15:11:00 -
[16]
LOL @ Abandon,
sorry but you really don't have a clue of teamwork, if my corp buys/builds a BS for a Corpm8 then we expect (or even demand) him to mine for the others too, I mean a BS can have up 8 to mining lasers installed and 10 drones flying around, that's a pretty good mining vessel if you ask me, of course we will only do that until we have enough BS but until then we will keep our "mining" BS
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Intelman
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Posted - 2003.08.08 15:13:00 -
[17]
What a Croc.
Cruisers are the best miners for the lower levs and the reason for this is the number of hardpoints and drones they can use.
I can understand your point if you are a loner but these ships are fantastic when you work in a team with someone flying an Indy to pull in the cargo when you jet it.
At the end of the day the Indy is no more than a Truck for transporting stuff and has no requirement to have a shed load of mining hard points. If you choose to be a loner then you loose simple as that.
I think things are fine the way they are you just need to team up with a friend or join a corp.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.08.08 15:18:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Also in the spirit of making mining better what if we could link to indy's so that are ore would go directly into their holds. Make it a skill that both people have to have. The different levels would determine what you could latch onto.
Overreact much, cell? 
I dunno what CCP will think of the previous part of the message but this caught my eye. Synchronized mining? Adds some skills to the Mining tree, at least. It's sorta like sensor linking, so this seems more viable and not so hard to do...
It's too binary tho - it goes to the Indy or it doesn't. There needs to be a variable of some kind, and a reason for ore to still be "exposed."
Maybe the skill levels could determine the rate of transfer from your hold to the indy's?
If you mine faster than that, you'll have overflow, and still need to put the excess in a can / transfer manually. The range will, of course, also be damn small...
dunno. Might be more trouble than it's worth.
IIRC, the indy's are really just the first part of a *class* of ships. This is the most basic: a big freakin' moble cargo hold.
Refinery ships are in the works, you know. I suspect more industrial-class ships are on the way; the current ones are *supposed* to be imperfect. If you could cram 5 mining lasers and 500 drones on an indy, where do you advance to from there?
personally i can't wait to see what a refinery ship looks like
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Sarf
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Posted - 2003.08.08 17:15:00 -
[19]
my understanding is that refineing and manufacturing units are modules for INDYs not new ships. The modules will take a boat load of CPU to run that is why the Indys have so much CPU.
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Harkov
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Posted - 2003.08.08 23:32:00 -
[20]
Quote:
even in eve you lot think you will exist. So funny, as one of a few people I know in the UK that like Americans I find it so funny how you apply your views to everything.
You could have just put SS - star ship or CA Corporation Asset.
what a silly comment...why don't you re-read his post. it was an analogy...real world...eve world...geesh...so quick to judge.
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Kristopher Michael
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Posted - 2003.08.08 23:53:00 -
[21]
Jojin, *LMFAO* Serious that was funny stuff, way to put into context the retardedness of Battleship miners.
Hehehe, battleship full of tuna...ah yes.... hehehe..
You know guys, I'm a commercial fisherman, and trust me, thier are things that mining vessels can do (actually commercial fihsing boats) that the battleships can't do (the destroyers, battleships of the navy, or what have you) Ships are geared up differently for thier job type. And so it shoudl be in EVE, of course EVE isn't real life. But you know.. I woudl suggest this for a middle ground, ships coem STOCK as thier type, i.e. a battleship can only hold weapons, and a small miner ship indy ship, can hold mining lasers. Now, thier should be a new shop or factory introduced to the game called the MOD shop, and bassically you coudl take your battleship tot he MOD shop, pay the oh lets say 40 million isk to mod it over for indy/minign operations, and wait as the welders cut your ship apart and add the nessecary parts.
Just and idea :D
=Kristopher Michael=
-Merlin Pilot Extrodinaire-
"I wish we had a snapshot of Kristopher Michael shooting Shollos in the back of his Scorpion with a merlin, i think he did nearly Six Hundred Damage to him" -Rabid Kristopher Michael Fan- |
Dolgrathe Nackle
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Posted - 2003.08.09 00:06:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote:
even in eve you lot think you will exist. So funny, as one of a few people I know in the UK that like Americans I find it so funny how you apply your views to everything.
You could have just put SS - star ship or CA Corporation Asset.
what a silly comment...why don't you re-read his post. it was an analogy...real world...eve world...geesh...so quick to judge.
Re read it and you could take it for an analogy however considering the focus of Eve is it not more appropriate to use references such as BCCIUSS - BCCI Universal Star Ship or McDustrial Transporter.
Apologies if my post upset you however I was not judging just trying to redirect. I am concerned that the concept Eve is pushing, is misdirected by reference to national bodies and governmental forces as opposed to the globalisation of corporate power. To relate real world to eve appropriate examples must be used. In this case it was easy to refer to the inappropriateness of a Battleship being used as a cruiser or a nuclear bomb as a solution to*****roches (yes I know they will be the only things that will live through it - just making a point about appropriate examples). I felt there was no need to put United States in the title of a ships name as it does not rserve as a real life example of an Eve corporation.
...
Although maybe your right and the the analogy of the US to a corporation that exists within Eve solely for the purpose of making money through use of overly powerful tools that are high impact is a good analogy. 
I admit it was said better by Danton Marcellus of Nebula Rasa Holdings though - leave the flag at home, this is a game and it would be sad if our imagination is unable to think beyond applying real world names to Eve.
Dolgrathe
Member of the 'X-Corp Confederation'
Refining for the Future |
Jojin
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Posted - 2003.08.09 01:54:00 -
[23]
I apologize if I offended anyone by using U.S.S. in the name of a fictional vessel. I was just attempting to make a point through reference to current real world items. Please do not continue to harbor any ill will or let this escalate as it was an innocent mistake.
I have not yet ventured and lived internationally to know exactly what items may be common in different cultures. I will try to keep this in mind in future postings and try to make them more generic.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.08.09 03:30:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 09/08/2003 03:36:58
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 09/08/2003 03:35:13
I believe the mobile refinerys they talk about these days are a small player station .. back in beta they were asked "will indys get modules that allow them to refine" and a dev answered "we will add that functionality" however just after release the question got asked again and they said that refining modules for ships would not make it into the game .. small stations that could refine would however make it in.
About the same time they also said no ship will ever dock with another (which was something they had at least given the idea would happen earlier in beta) It seems there hitting either time or technical limitations beyond what they originally envisioned.
before I got into the beta I had read the descriptions on the ship classes etc and one part back then (dont know if it still does) said that indys could range from a few hundred meters to a few kilometers in size and would come in all varietys .. back then I imagined construction ships, repair ships, mining vessels, cargo ships and perhaps all-around huge support ships that could be configured to fit varying roles .. of course all they turned out to be is glorified boxes with engines for moving things but I still live in the vague hope they will one day expand the class, for now I feel kinda forced to head into cruisers and battleships though, since indys cant really do anything more exciting than a frigate can beyond moving quantitys of things (and anyone can grab a bestower and do that well enough it hardly qualifys as a profession :( )
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.08.09 17:30:00 -
[25]
As not much has happened in the thread and as I think somthing needs to be done about the mining warships I will bump it and add some thoughts.
I sadly did not get any replys on my earlier post but that is of little concern, I want to add to it on the industrial miners.
The industrials I outlined in my earlier post would be cheep but effective miners being able to both chew rock and after that haul it home.
I however see no problem with building huge minings hips with the possibility to fit 8 mininglasers and a drone bay big enough to house 10 mining drones.
Would it unbalance the game, only if the mineral cost to build them was low, if they end up priced high enough then there would be no impact on the game balance.
The huge mining corps that now have dosens of BS that mine would have to redirect some energy into producing thise mega mining vessels and train upp the industrial skill in order to use them, no problem.
Wich brings us to question why people dont want the change?
Wouldnt it in reality be more right if you had to invest in mining ships in order to master the mining part of the game rather than becoming an expert miner as a bonus when getting a battleship?
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GenX
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Posted - 2003.08.09 20:09:00 -
[26]
Quote:
The game balance is fragile enough without implementing these game-destroying recommendations.
no kidding
*********************************************
If one person is speaking out, others are thinking of it
Life is just a dream, till you do somthing aobut it.
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WolfA4
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Posted - 2003.08.10 10:45:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
even in eve you lot think you will exist. So funny, as one of a few people I know in the UK that like Americans I find it so funny how you apply your views to everything.
You could have just put SS - star ship or CA Corporation Asset.
what a silly comment...why don't you re-read his post. it was an analogy...real world...eve world...geesh...so quick to judge.
Re read it and you could take it for an analogy however considering the focus of Eve is it not more appropriate to use references such as BCCIUSS - BCCI Universal Star Ship or McDustrial Transporter.
Apologies if my post upset you however I was not judging just trying to redirect. I am concerned that the concept Eve is pushing, is misdirected by reference to national bodies and governmental forces as opposed to the globalisation of corporate power. To relate real world to eve appropriate examples must be used. In this case it was easy to refer to the inappropriateness of a Battleship being used as a cruiser or a nuclear bomb as a solution to*****roches (yes I know they will be the only things that will live through it - just making a point about appropriate examples). I felt there was no need to put United States in the title of a ships name as it does not rserve as a real life example of an Eve corporation.
...
Although maybe your right and the the analogy of the US to a corporation that exists within Eve solely for the purpose of making money through use of overly powerful tools that are high impact is a good analogy.
I admit it was said better by Danton Marcellus of Nebula Rasa Holdings though - leave the flag at home, this is a game and it would be sad if our imagination is unable to think beyond applying real world names to Eve.
re-read what he said, do you know of any air craft carriers in eve? do you fish for tuna in eve?
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Dolgrathe Nackle
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Posted - 2003.08.10 11:55:00 -
[28]
Ok last post on this.
I posted in reference to the 'United States Ship' comment. It showed a lack of imagination to bring in a reference to existing nation states into a game structured with corps.
My request was that we keep flag waving out of the game and as a result keep clear reference to analogies used to relevant examples.
And the reference to a aircraft carrier being used for fishing was a good example which is where the question of appropriateness of battleships being used for mining comes in - personally I think it is up to the individual and the corps approach to mining. If it works for you use it - which brings us back to the original title of this topic - why is it retarded if it works for that person. I do not beleive it is, to have 7 lasers mining ore so the hauler can carry out more trips with less dead time seems smart to me.
Dolgrathe
Member of the 'X-Corp Confederation'
Refining for the Future |
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