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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
18848
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Watched Bill Maher's reaction, he didn't seem to know what to make of it one way or another.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
/S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\
Unban Saede! |
jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
288
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Posted - 2013.06.08 16:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
TBH I don't see what all the fuss is about NSA/GCHQ have been doing wire tapping for ages the FBI use GCHQ to bug mobile phones in the US because theirs something in the US constitution (insert amendment here) that doesn't allow them to do it legally .so they get the brits to do it .and in return the yanks spy on us ..
theres nothing new in this ...its been going on for ages I should know I worked for a company that was involved in doing it .
linky for those that don't believe .racal instruments |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
18867
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Maybe its some throbbing French vain in me screaming for liberty, but I think I still have the right to be a spot miffed at this.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
289
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Posted - 2013.06.08 19:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
not really ..your a commodty ..just like the rest of us ..your just a tool to be used ..and abused just like the rest of us |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
18882
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Posted - 2013.06.08 19:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
I didn't ask for this...
I hope the EU crushes this through market regulation.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
289
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:I didn't ask for this...
I hope the EU crushes this through market regulation.
not wanting to bust your bubble mate ..but do you really think the EU can do anything to stop this ?. your deluded if you think they can EU = toothless dragons |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
18930
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
This is being done via corporations operating subsidiaries in the EU member states for some of the data sourced according to the Telegraph.
Assuming that is correct, then yes the EU has jurisdiction and can issue heavy fines, hopefully crippling in this case for not acting in the interests of its member states. See what happened with Microsoft for including a browser in its OS or Intel for bribery.
EU has balls when it comes to making foreign corporations pay for anticompetitive practices, and they've been circling Google for a while now...
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
/S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\
Unban Saede! |
jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
289
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:This is being done via corporations operating subsidiaries in the EU member states for some of the data sourced according to the Telegraph.
Assuming that is correct, then yes the EU has jurisdiction and can issue heavy fines, hopefully crippling in this case for not acting in the interests of its member states. See what happened with Microsoft for including a browser in its OS or Intel for bribery.
EU has balls when it comes to making foreign corporations pay for anticompetitive practices, and they've been circling Google for a while now...
wrong ..EU pays lip service to big corporations and fines them miniscule amounts.. ...when was the last time EU put anyone in prison for anti competitive practices ... errrm ....never ...you think they are going to do it to US companies ?.
an example how pathetic the EU is
when the brits had their stint as the head of the EU ...what was their big mandate ... oh yes seat belts on coaches ...wow that really made a fkn difference ...when was the last time u saw anyone wearing a fkn seatbelt on a fkn bus ?.
EU .WASTE OF FKN SPACE |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
18934
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
I would take you more seriously if you used capital letters and punctuation for the record.
But hey, EU v Intel 2009, EU v Microsoft..
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
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Unban Saede! |
jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
289
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
fair enough ...I wasn't taught capital letters and punctuation at school ..so my bad at comprehension |
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jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
289
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
but to pull your point ..on the two examples you posted .where did the money go ? ...more farming subisidies ?. or in someones back pocket ?. enquiring minds would like to ask ?.
PS we are derailing this thread  |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
234
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
You know what? This is all a fuss about nothing.
The US, UK, Australia and a few other Anglo-Saxon nations share something the media call "ECHELON", which is actually just SIGINT. It was used extensively during the cold war. We have quite a few listening stations here in the UK. It's not a surprise to me that the NSA, MI5 and everyone else is listening in to everyone's communications.
The difference today is that there's so much SIGINT, you really can't do it unless you record everything and then mine it later.
Here's where I stand:
(1) I have no problem with Intelligence Services of the Anglosphere listening to and recording my data BUT, they should do it under supervision of appropriate committees, chaired by democratically elected representatives.
(2) The Police should only have access to it by court order.
(3) Local Councils/apparatchiks should under no circumstances ever have access to it.
My view . |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
211
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Posted - 2013.06.08 21:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Wait what? Does that mean people will no longer call me a paranoid crackpot if i tell them it's not a good idea to upload their whole life to some cloud storage? For how long? A Week? |
Rain6635
Team Evil
183
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Posted - 2013.06.08 22:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
yes there is a server farm, yes it's underground, no you aren't important enough to know about it, no you won't care five minutes from now, yes it is owned by an agency with a three letter identifier, plenty of people who are not-you already know about it, you're making yourself look bad
surely, you didn't think this didn't exist.
Thanatoses for sale-á| is this what a Nyx sitter looks like? |
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
55
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Posted - 2013.06.08 23:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
To play devils advocate, every time there is a successful terrorist attack the public & press turn round to the government & security services and ask 'How could you let this happen? What did you do wrong?'. We expect the state to provide a level of protection against terrorists, sex offenders and so on, this requires a certain amount of surveillance to do effectively. And because they often don't know who should be under surveillance, without a certain amount of surveillance, we are all subject to, lets be honest, pretty limited surveillance.
There is a balance between safety and liberty, and you will rarely find two people who agree on where the correct balance lies. In this case it's a government organisation collecting information that private companies hold, private companies who wouldn't hesitate to sell this information for targeted advertising purposes if they though they could get away with it.
Honestly, unless you are plotting to kill people, you have nothing to worry about. The state doesn't care that you spent a whole afternoon on lolcats, that you like asses big and black or you only call your mother once a month. Yes they could take on a more malevolent agenda in the future, but that could happen regardless of if they were monitoring internet use now or not, as the technology exists anyway and you can't un-invent the wheel. Have a message you want to communicate, or material you wish to view and don't want the state to find out, or indeed for a corporation to sell that information to the highest bidder, don't use the internet or a phone to do it. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
234
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Posted - 2013.06.08 23:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kurfin wrote:
There is a balance between safety and liberty, and you will rarely find two people who agree on where the correct balance lies.
Quite right.
Quote:People: "Oh Government, protect us from evildoers. If you don't, we'll vote you out."
Government: "OK"
People, "Why are you doing surveillance and collecting SIGINT????!"
It really makes no sense to me. However, this article by Mic Wright did make me think about it.
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jason hill
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
289
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Posted - 2013.06.09 00:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:You know what? This is all a fuss about nothing. The US, UK, Australia and a few other Anglo-Saxon nations share something the media call "ECHELON", which is actually just SIGINT. It was used extensively during the cold war. We have quite a few listening stations here in the UK. It's not a surprise to me that the NSA, MI5 and everyone else is listening in to everyone's communications. The difference today is that there's so much SIGINT, you really can't do it unless you record everything and then mine it later. Here's where I stand: (1) I have no problem with Intelligence Services of the Anglosphere listening to and recording my data BUT, they should do it under supervision of appropriate committees, chaired by democratically elected representatives. (2) The Police should only have access to it by court order. (3) Local Councils/apparatchiks should under no circumstances ever have access to it. My view .
Canada and new zealand |
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
151
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Posted - 2013.06.09 00:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Wait what? Does that mean people will no longer call me a paranoid crackpot if i tell them it's not a good idea to upload their whole life to some cloud storage? For how long? A Week?
For about five mins, then they suffer withdrawal from not having facbooked or tweeted in the last 90 secs and go"pfft, i got nothing to hide anyway, what's the big deal?' So then I tell them there was once an underwear bomber, and in the interst of security, i will now go through their underwear drawer whenever I feel like it for, umm, you know...security reasons. what are so upset about, youre not hiding anything in there, but, you know, I gotta look, you know, for security reasons....can you leave the room for a minute, our surveillance techniques are top secret.
Prism, underwaer drawer...same thing...still don't care?
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Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
329
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Posted - 2013.06.09 01:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
jason hill wrote: ...when was the last time EU put anyone in prison for anti competitive practices ...
When's the last time anybody handed down criminal sentences with prison terms for that?
Yeah, 10 years in prison for forcing Netscape Navigator off the market.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
329
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Posted - 2013.06.09 01:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Rain6635 wrote:yes there is a server farm, yes it's underground, no you aren't important enough to know about it, no you won't care five minutes from now, yes it is owned by an agency with a three letter identifier, plenty of people who are not-you already know about it, you're making yourself look bad
surely, you didn't think this didn't exist.
The server rooms at Verizon full of NSA equipment has been public knowledge for years now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
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Rain6635
Team Evil
185
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Posted - 2013.06.09 01:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
right? it's just a news fad. a nice high speed chase will pull people's attention back where it usually is.
also, candleja
Thanatoses for sale-á| is this what a Nyx sitter looks like? |
Fenrisian Wolf
Stahl Arms and Shipyards
V0RTEX.
2
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Posted - 2013.06.09 02:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Wait what? Does that mean people will no longer call me a paranoid crackpot if i tell them it's not a good idea to upload their whole life to some cloud storage? For how long? A Week?
You only spend the amount of time or money to protect something as what it's actually worth, and not any more.
Therefore, if you're life is worthless, such as mine, then uploading to the cloud is really no big deal, since there is nothing of value to actually protect. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
1452
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Posted - 2013.06.09 05:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
protip: it detects keywords in your speech and text.
Thanatoses for sale | is this what a Nyx sitter looks like? |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone
Caldari State
322
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Posted - 2013.06.09 06:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:protip: it detects keywords in your speech and text.
Why would you write a BOMB program that would try to TERROR pick the good apples from the bad DEAD PRESIDENT based purely off of AIRPLANE keywords?
Your program would ANTHRAX pick up so many false MOHAMMED positives you'd have distracted yourself INFIDEL sifting through 99% irrelevant crap ALLAH while the intel you do seek is in SHIPPING CONTAINER a more carefully worded and coded message you know your COCPIT DOOR program won't catch.
Not to mention JET ENGINE encryption and other middle-man-proof applications WHITE HOUSE completely bypasses your system.
To me that whole approach screams ineffective, inefficient and easily fooled/bypassed.
I'd probably write something that harvests what IPs talk to what IPs, what TNs call what TNs... I guess you could call it metadata. I wouldn't even bother with content at the get go.
Then I'd establish a web of interactivity/connectivity. Linking these to regional data to intelligently guess at what are worth further scrutiny.
Once I get a lead on someone, whether through my own process or from other intel, by applying a a known suspicion/incrimination to any one phone number, or IP, or address... then that web I spent all my time mapping comes into play!
I head back to my mappings and fan out from suspect0 investigating direct communications with him, then moving to once removed ones, etc etc. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
1453
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 07:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
take those buzzwords, include languages other than English, and finally ip addresses and phone numbers linked to names of people unknown to the general public. then you have your results.
I would allow people 20 seconds to accept the fact Google has helped with the algorithms/datamining. if not directly, then by headhunting.
if people will get their panties in a bunch over what is being monitoring in their own country, well, they aren't cut out to work in national and foreign intelligence.
when there are crazies running around, cooperation between first world countries is beneficial. have you been to iraq or afghanistan? I have. forget privacy... what people are suggesting is removing the benefit of a global data network infrastructure. probably the same people who have an issue with military casualties.
it ain't gonna happen, and this isn't jousting in the dark ages.
ITT: privacy tears, and ibtl
Thanatoses for sale | is this what a Nyx sitter looks like? |
Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Given that Echelon has been known since at least the late '90s, NSA rooms in ATT some years back, Patriot act allowing the US government to spy on their citizens, etc, etc... I would have been surprised is something like PRISM hadn't been going on.
It's been publicly known that those companies involved in this "scandal" have been datamining all your stuffs already for years - that's their business model after all - and it shouldn't be a surprise they would get the NSA invited into the party as well.
If there's something you truly don't want anyone to see, encrypt it before you put it up anywhere. Don't friend and chat up Taliban members on Facebook. Common sense, just as before these news broke.
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Jada Maroo
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
1135
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Posted - 2013.06.10 01:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
People need to watch the full interview with Edward Snowden here.
This guy is not a crazy. Or a partisan. He's not some bitter traitor like Bradley Manning. He warns about exactly the concern I had earlier in the thread.
This is not just a surveillance system. This is the greatest tool of blackmail ever engineered.
If you're high enough profile and **** off the wrong person at the NSA and they can go through your digital history and devastate your life. You don't have to be under suspicion today. Since everything on everyone is being stored, all you have to do is get on somebody's bad side tomorrow.
Fortunately, there are ways to bring this system to a screeching halt that are *entirely* out of the NSA's control. Three things need to happen:
1. Browser and chat program plugins need to be created that will do occasional searches in the background or automated chatter involving known NSA watch words and bizarre behaviors and sexual fetishes. The purpose of this plugin is to overwhelm the system with false positives and to immunize users against the potential for blackmail - after all, you can just say the plugin searched for that kinky stuff.
2. Webmasters need to purposely litter their webpages with watch words to generate as many false positives as possible. Make the system worthless.
3. We must propagate the idea that anonymous or government sources making claims about someone's digital paper trail are inherently untrustworthy and likely manufactured for political gain or lies resulting from axe grinding. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
1457
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 03:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
blackmail is as simple as a photoshop of a businessman with a prostitute 
also: comedy intermission
Thanatoses for sale | is this what a Nyx sitter looks like? |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
366
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Posted - 2013.06.10 06:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
You are free to do as we tell you!
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
44
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Saw a comment elsewhere apropos of this I found interesting: the difference between the US and China, is that the Chinese live knowing well they are not free on the Internets, whereas the USians are just living under the illusion of freedom.
Spot on. Actually, as someone who's spent considerable time in both the US and China, in many ways I feel more free living in the latter than the former, despite it being a totalitarian state. In the US it was a constant barrage of rules and norms and regulations and people telling me what to do and what not to do everywhere I went, down to the smallest most silly details. In China no one bugs me about anything (but then, I'm not a political activist). |
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