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Teri Ipeh
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:20:00 -
[1]
Macroers hide in NPC corps because they can't be war decced and are thus 99% safe from being shot at by people who discover them.
Remove thier ability to hide in NPC corps and macroers would become an endangered species pretty quickly.
NPC corps should be for new players only (i.e. people on their first free month of play). Anyone older than a month should get kicked out of these NPC corps, but would recieve a "corp voucher". This voucher would allow the player to set up their first corp free of charge, but after that the normal fees apply should they want to make subsequent corps.
Removing a macorers ability to hide in NPC corps would allow the eve playerbase to police suspected macroers and free up time for the GM's & Devs as they wouldn't need to investigate every petition.
I would much rather see macroers blown to bits than banned. A banned account earns nothing for CCP. Blowing them up gives those that live by the rules some satisfaction... and fun!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:21:00 -
[2]
Blow them up, they just buy another ship and move to a less popular system... ban them and they lose all the time they've spent on that character and their account that cost them RL money.
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Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Teri Ipeh
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:34:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
Blow them up, they just buy another ship and move to a less popular system... ban them and they lose all the time they've spent on that character and their account that cost them RL money.
Banning them doesn't work either, they just open another account. The ironic thing is, macoring is probably the biggest growing "industry" in Eve because of the RL money thats in it for them.
The GM's & Devs have enough petitions to deal with as it is - at least this way the playerbase can police the macroers themselves and free up some of that time for the GM's.
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Tekka
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:38:00 -
[4]
Wait for RMR 
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tekka
Wait for RMR
i haven't seen the announcement of the changes in RMR that will combat macros.
still, i can't claim encyclopaedic knowledge of the plans - what will be done about macroes in RMR
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HairyGary
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:47:00 -
[6]
As far as I know, nothing is being done about them directly - people are expecting to utilize the new theft PvP-flagging mechanics to kill macroers, I believe.
It will probably very briefly work, but considering jet cans are labelled with their owner (portait shows on the show info), it probably won't be long before competent coders simply make sure their macros only take from their own cans.
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John BigBootay
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:50:00 -
[7]
Well, the problem I see with this is I happen to like the NPC corp. I keep this alt account in the NPC corp because there are some fun people to talk to in there. If you force everyone out, where would they go? I think that is one of the great things about EVE, the NPC corp channels. Sure 75% of the people in them are alts including myself but its fun to talk to non-corp mates about just fun stuff. Help out the newer players with some good intel intead of letting them figure out that shooting at a stargate is bad!
I think RMR has potential to stop the Macro Miners, for those of you unaware of the proposed change, I believe they are that if someone takes anything from your jetcan, they are criminally flagged against you (not your corp mates, or gang members) and you can shoot at them without fear of concord. The possibilities are ENDLESS! :)
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.11.11 21:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Galk on 11/11/2005 21:21:00
Ill just quote the words of our own eris discordia:
"Witchtrials are no longer the thing to do this centurary. Please visit Salem if you want to act like judge and jury."
This was about the situation the other night when players were acting as judge and jury without having the facts.
Any difference to the mass of threads about macro miners, any difference to the information, or lack of available to the players to be certain of the facts.
No ofcourse not.
As for the op's views, you havn't a chance, satisfaction and fun, yours?
Read eris's view, why if ccp have any sence or decency what so ever, they will revert from there stance on continuing to promote the issue of macro miners within the eve community either in the news or on the forums.
Its shamefull, and has reaching concequence.
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When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
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Banana Torres
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:24:00 -
[9]
Macro miners would just change the way they mine. We have seen it already, moving from jcan mining, to mining with lots of industrals.
I predict they would form an alliance making the cost of the wardec too high.
As a previous poster said, leave CCP to deal with the problem. If you spot a MM petition it, steal what ore you can and move on. Or get yourself a Manticore and relive the days of suicide Kestrals.
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Oberon Oblique
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:37:00 -
[10]
When CCP bans folks do they do an IP ban?
I wish...
-The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh... |
DrakeZakharov
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:48:00 -
[11]
If you want to go after macroers specifically , then join the same NPC corp as them ;).
Can shoot at members of teh same corp if i remember correctly ...
Its just a thought.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.11 23:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: DrakeZakharov
If you want to go after macroers specifically , then join the same NPC corp as them ;).
Can shoot at members of teh same corp if i remember correctly ...
Its just a thought.
You can't shoot other members of an NPC corp.
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Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Amataras
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Posted - 2005.11.11 23:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Amataras on 11/11/2005 23:25:27
I agree with forcing players to move out of NPC corporations after their first month of play. All it takes is a little over a million isk to form a new corp.
It should be that players are unable to progress in skill training if they remain in the NPC corp for longer than a month after starting the game (or something similar).
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The Eve Diplomacy Table |
Solar Sailor
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Posted - 2005.11.11 23:31:00 -
[14]
How about after your first 3 months(1 month for non noob corps), every week you reside in an NPC corp your sec drops by -1.0?
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MarkX
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Posted - 2005.11.11 23:41:00 -
[15]
I usually go to Urlen and blow em up, or just put a BM in the can that says "Thanks for your ore <3" then jack the rest.
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Gaelron
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Posted - 2005.11.12 00:05:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gaelron on 12/11/2005 00:06:41
See the thing with macro-miners/gold-farmers is they always have a banker...the miners themselves dont hold cash or anything on them, everything is provided (probably by escrow by the banker/quartermaster) and all they do is mine and escrow the materials to someone else who sells them who sends the cash to a banker who distributes the cash to the retailers (im not going into retailers here...thats another book)
So by us killing the miners doesnt hurt them AT ALL...to hurt them the GM's need to track down who the "Gold" is banked by then to track down the retailers....once you know who the banker is you dont want to touch him...leave his structure intact and hit the retailers...once they lose trust in the distributer/banker than they wont want to buy from them anymore (especially if you can make it so that every transaction is haxxor'd without them knowing a GM/dev was behind it.)
The best way to stop these type of activities is to undermine them...dont just ban them...ruin their business, idustrial sabotage (but since CCP owns everything in eve there isnt any risk of legal claims.)
Edit: I forgot to add that they change distributors very often to prevent anyone from noticing.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.11.12 02:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: DrakeZakharov
If you want to go after macroers specifically , then join the same NPC corp as them ;).
Can shoot at members of teh same corp if i remember correctly ...
Its just a thought.
You can't shoot other members of an NPC corp.
Quite correct.
It would be a griefers wet dream.
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Iona Triplewide
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Posted - 2005.11.12 04:44:00 -
[18]
Instead of banning macroers, how about you set a flag to allow anyone to gank them anywhere. Might as well allow everyone else to have fun and let the macroer pay the monthly fee or quit.
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Makhan
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Posted - 2005.11.12 04:57:00 -
[19]
Untill there is the option to have no corp at all, Forcing solo players out of npc corps would destroy the entire point of soloing. Any change like the one you are proposing would drastically effect the solo aspect of the game.
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.11.12 05:16:00 -
[20]
think there should be 2 classes of NPC corps...
newbie class and player class...
you get kicked outoff the newbie corp after a month into a player class corp...
you get a 2 week, 1 weeks and a 1 day notice...
should be a generic corp you get kicked into...
like if you where in a navy newbie corp you get kicked into the empires navy...
cant be in the academy forever...
and in the player class corps you can fire on other corp members...
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The cargo bay is overloaded and cannot be made to fit Expanded Cargohold I.
It is currently only capable of fitting 8772.12 units and it is currently jammed full with 9558.33 units. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.12 05:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sentani
think there should be 2 classes of NPC corps...
newbie class and player class...
you get kicked outoff the newbie corp after a month into a player class corp...
you get a 2 week, 1 weeks and a 1 day notice...
should be a generic corp you get kicked into...
like if you where in a navy newbie corp you get kicked into the empires navy...
cant be in the academy forever...
and in the player class corps you can fire on other corp members...
That wouldn't prevent griefing, just delay it for two weeks while the griefer trains his skills a bit more.
In all honesty, any system that protects the new guys protects macroers. If you can have a perfectly safe empire where you are completely unaccountable for your actions and can't be declared war on since you're in a newbie corp, you're safe no matter how much you tick off anyone in the game. The only way I can think of around this might be to make a system to protect the new guys but ease them into the player corp system, which is definitely large enough to accomodate them.
It can't be a tax for staying in a newbie corp after a certain age/sp because that doesn't hurt macroers. It can't be a simple forcing of players after a certain age to move to a player corp because that would hurt newbies and macroers would probably just close their accounts or disband every time war is declared - and where would they go when they disband if no newbie corps were there? It could be a penalty on players in newbie corps that would affect their ability to mine in large volumes in order to make it more profitable for legitimate miners to join a corp and ruin the profit of macroing.
I'm not exactly sure how we'd do that, really. Perhaps limit the number of mining lasers and drones usable by people in newbie corps to 2 lasers and 2 drones. We could explain it away as some new FCC regulation and give the players and month before it comes into effect to get used to the idea and prepare for it. It would make people move into player corps more often and would require something of an overhaul of the war system to make viable (so that people wouldn't be afraid to make a one man corp if they really wanted to play solo) but it would work.
The only way to get rid of macro-mining is to either make them accountable for their actions by getting them into player corps where they can be wardecced or make it completely not viable to macromine. In some games, random events occur that could make you die if you weren't paying attention and they were updated and tweaked all the time so no macro could settle on how to react. Those methods make it no longer viable to macro in those games as it's not worth risking your gear if you get yourself killed by a random event. It doesn't combat attended-interruptable macros but then they are practically impossible to detect by conventional means anyway.
It's simple in concept. If it was no longer profitable to macro-mine in a newbie corp, they'd either stop or join/create a player corp. Either way is fine. In practice, CCP would need to think long and hard about a possible system to implement in order to make it no longer profitable for macroers. We could have something anomalous occur with the mining laser that requires us to solve a visual problem, which is one a computer cannot easilly solve. Perhaps the laser shuts off with a problem and we have to right click it and delect "repair", at which point a box pops up with images of some power cables that need replacing and we left-click drag the old ones out and put the new ones, of the appopriate colour, in their place. They should ideally have multiple problems that can occur. As long as they can make it fit with the game, it could work.
Ramble ramble ramble..
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Xendie
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Posted - 2005.11.12 06:43:00 -
[22]
any group of accounts found to be macromining shoud get criminally flagged for a period of 1 week with their first warning.
if they get caught again criminally flag them for a week then ban their accounts.
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Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.11.12 10:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Serpensis on 12/11/2005 10:34:36
Originally by: Oberon Oblique
When CCP bans folks do they do an IP ban?
I wish...
Thats not too clever to do actually. Most ISPs rotate IPs of their customers, unless they _pay_ to keep the same IP-address. And, well, some flatmates share the same line thru a switch/router, and it would be insane to ban the IP if 1 of the players did something illegal, and then take 2 others with you just because they live in the same appartement-building.
I am a miner by trade, and gawd damn how I hate macroers, and I wish they were all perm-banned. But banning IP-addresses will never work I guess, as the "mastermacroers" probably can change IP-addresses if they want to.
Having a "miner patrol unit" of ISD or CCP flying into the belts regularly, and challenging the miners every now and then would probably work, and it could be done by NPCs in the game. Set response time to the equivalent of 1 mining laser cycle, and use 1M+ diff challenges, so it would be hard to anticipate.
Just a suggestion. Banning IP-addresses that arent 100% fixed is a bad idea, imho.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
Alfarin
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Posted - 2005.11.12 11:22:00 -
[24]
To be honest I don't know how these guys work, are they client-side exploits? If that's the case then CCP programmers probably need to do something similar to other games companies and implement some kind of effective anti-cheat software.
In the meantime what would be good for the players is if after petitioning a bunch of macro-miners, the GM would instantly set the macro miners sec rating to -10. At the moment they come back to you and gather evidence and then ban them at a later date, but in my mind it's pretty obvious that, say, a bunch of 12 cormorants and 2 haulers (all toons being 7 days old) are macro miners.
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