Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 06:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is the 3rd or 4th year I've proposed this. Into the breach once more. -- Complete workflow for the Mining Profession.
The Problem.
Presently the Mining Profession as a whole is completely broken. What?!? You say, Mining isn't broken, people mine every day.
This is true, however, because CCP hasn't changed mining in a decade and the game has grown exponentially, other things have become huge issues to the workflow for any mining corp. Mostly to do with the feasability of running a mining corp, and the way the lack of features impact the workflow for these corporations.
By workflow I mean taking a Miner and his CEO, now the Miner goes into a belt and mines ore. He might bring it back to the station and contract the ore to the corporation for a set amount of money, thereby benefiting the miner and the delivering minerals to the corp.
However it also creats work for the CEO, who then has to recheck the contract (as it has no set rate, and must be calculated manually) to make sure mistakes or ripoffs aren't happening, then accept or deny the contract.
Then the CEO has the added issue, the ore is now sitting in a station (by definition of the contract) and it does him little good there unless he's just going to sell it. If that's the case, why would the miner sell him the ore for under market value anyhow just to be onsold ? It makes no sense that anyone does this.
If the CEO wants to make ships out of it, he has to have the blueprints and other components in the station or has to move the ore.
This is all well and fine in high-sec, however, move this workflow to low-sec or 0.0 and see how much more drastic the whole thing becomes.
None of this even takes into account new or at least newer players. They possibly will contract the ore in order to do what the corp wants, but first have to get the ore to the station - a huge task on its' own for new players.
tl;dr The Contracts system sucks for doing this. You either have to own a station (Heaps of mining corps have these right?) or you are up for some serious logistics and cannot really have new players in your corp.
Also, noone here is benefiting from either running a mining corp or from being a miner in the corp. New players are doubly whammied because they don't really have the means to move ore to the designated contract station and it cuts them out ALTOGETHER from any mining corp operating in low-sec or 0.0 purely on the basis of logistics.
Not to mention the contracts themselves. From experience I can tell you that as CEO, once a corp goes over the 50 player mark you are basically a full-time accountant. ALL of your in-game time will now be dedicated to contracts, moving ore and fuelling pos. You will not be able to mine yourself (or rarely) and the social aspect of the game will be impacted detrimentally (including the culture of the corp which at this point in its' growth is incredibly important).
Basically, it is creating a false ceiling for mining corp growth.
The Proposal.
CCP would create a silo which can ONLY hold ore, minerals, gasses and other mining-type elements or salvage. I'd also suggest that the silo should be able to hold AT LEAST a corporate hangar worth of materials.
Once this structure is anchored, prices can be set in the corporation screen for buying these items from players at a set rate and can be changed whenever necessary.
Also a wallet to pay people from is set.
Once a miner comes into the POS to put his ore in a hangar, he instead can put it into the silo and be paid instantly from the specified corp wallet at the set rates. This allows new players to make money in low-sec or 0.0 in their chosen profession.
It also allows CEO's to handle the workload of the corp and continue to take part in ops and manage the corp itself. (Read "Fun").
It makes the Rorqual a useful tool for the corporation for a CEO to own and makes it less of a requirement for EVERY miner to have - although still usefull.
Another issue it addresses for these corporations is the fact that a POS in low-sec and 0.0 doesn't really do anything for them.
They potentially are only storing ore here and using it as a safe haven in the system - pretty underwhelming considering the costs involved. The POS isn't actually facilitating any part of the corporation or being used for anything truly useful.
CCP likes to bandy words around like sandbox and emergent behaviour. If you notice the features and ideas forum, something like 98% of the stickies is 0.0/PVP related with next to nothing on the obviously broken industry side of the sandbox.
I would argue that before you can observe any of this emergent behaviour, CCP must create the tools to support the players in these roles. CSM7 Skype Leak
|
Tisiphone
Interstellar Armaments and Ammunition Sanctuary Pact
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 07:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
This functionality already exists in the shape of outposts.
You can already buy and sell to the outpost market, and it would be unusual for null-sec miners not to have reasonably friendly relations with the local SOV holders and access to the outpost!
I can see where you are coming from; the ability to set up a protected internal alliance or corporation wide market at the POS level would be nice - but given that the functionality already exists at the SOV level I can't see CCP ever expending resources to implement it. |
Goti fase
Fase Industries New Eden Research.
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I can feel your pain on the accepting contracts front.
What I would suggest is, as you have a ~50 man corp? Increase your delegation of duties. If you have 50 players all mining and contracting minerals to you then get a couple of them to start accepting contracts on the corps behalf. Surely there are a few people in the corp you trust enough to do that? |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tisiphone wrote:This functionality already exists in the shape of outposts.
You can already buy and sell to the outpost market, and it would be unusual for null-sec miners not to have reasonably friendly relations with the local SOV holders and access to the outpost!
I can see where you are coming from; the ability to set up a protected internal alliance or corporation wide market at the POS level would be nice - but given that the functionality already exists at the SOV level I can't see CCP ever expending resources to implement it.
This doesn't even come close to dealing with low-sec.
It also doesn't deal with the "new player experience".
I think you missed the point. Not everything is about 0.0 Sov corps and alliances. What about corps that don't have SOV ? CSM7 Skype Leak
|
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Goti fase wrote:I can feel your pain on the accepting contracts front.
What I would suggest is, as you have a ~50 man corp? Increase your delegation of duties. If you have 50 players all mining and contracting minerals to you then get a couple of them to start accepting contracts on the corps behalf. Surely there are a few people in the corp you trust enough to do that?
Why do we need to implement a system of trust just to gain basic functionality for miners to enjoy the same instant payments that other professions get ?
Even if that could be done, it's still a huge hole in the security of the corporation just to be able to maintain the basic function of the main profession the corporation is meant to support.
CSM7 Skype Leak
|
Tisiphone
Interstellar Armaments and Ammunition Sanctuary Pact
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 10:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grrr - wrote a reply but the forum eated it.
May rewrite later. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1516
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 11:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh for CREST, with a contract interface. The ability to accept or decline corporate contracts would take care of a lot of this.
Doesn't cover POS activities though. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Adam Akiga
Jellyneers Inc
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 12:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think his problem is that he doesnt have officiers that take care of some part of his work, thats why he doesnt have time to mine :-) Its his problem of managing corp, not a game problem..
And how every corporation grows, also grow number of managment, if you are so 1 man leader in MMO and 50 members in corp then dont complain... it was your choice... |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
160
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 12:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adam Akiga wrote:I think his problem is that he doesnt have officiers that take care of some part of his work, thats why he doesnt have time to mine :-) Its his problem of managing corp, not a game problem..
And how every corporation grows, also grow number of managment, if you are so 1 man leader in MMO and 50 members in corp then dont complain... it was your choice...
This adds nothing of value except to troll the OP. Add, comment on the suggestion or move out of the way.
I see the OP's idea and how he likens it to a Mission Runner. MR runs his mission, get's his bounty payment every 15 minutes and get's his Reward and Mission Bonus as soon as he completes.
However, Corp Mining is NOT an NPC activity, if you wanted to mine for instant rewards there are Mining Agents out there so the two are incomparable. Corp Mining is supposed to be user interactive and doesn't give an "instant reward".
I do like the idea of a "Ore Trading Hub" and reducing the "paperwork"\clickfest that some things in EVE have become and for this reason I give it a +1 for a good idea.
My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
171
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 13:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ok... so it's been a while since I looked at contracts and how to set them up...
But can't you set up a contract to buy a set amount of ore for a certain price, limit it to your corp, and just wait for someone to fill it? So long as your miners know that the contracts exist they can look them up and your workload becomes issuing new contracts once in a while, leaving the job of filling a quota to the miner.
If this isn't possible, I apologize for my ignorance.
Your idea still does nothing for the new player or solves the logistic problem. No matter what that ore has got to be moved either to your pos, or to a station you want to base out of, or where ever. |
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
289
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Indeed, I believe you can. So if you need 53,756,124,078 tritanium, just break it up into equal parts and leave the contracts laying around for miners to accept as they fill the quota. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 17:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just so people understand the history of this idea.
CSM 6 - Mittani said yes good idea. CSM 7 - Seleene said yes good idea and promised to champion it during CSM7.
No CSM has ever gotten it through to CCP however. While the features and ideas discussions is a great place for people to weigh ideas, think twice before poo-pooing this one, as it has been vetted by people with a lot of experience and understanding of the game.
I merely put it here as much for posterity as anything else. I see little value in the CSM anymore. CCP seems to only follow tracks in development that make for good marketing - which is why the CCP presents and EVE Keynote are full of "New cups you can buy", "New T-Shirts you can buy", "Formation Flying" and very little of Flying in Space.
Ideas like this one are not for the average player, it's more of a CEO tool that many people will probably not understand the value of and thus will not see the light of day.
Throwing it here is like throwing it to the peanut gallery and have them flick things at it, but I was asked to by current CSM people.
CSM7 Skype Leak
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
290
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 17:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Oh, I see. We didn't all at once rally 'round your first post, showering you with lilies and praises and gold coins and so now you're offended and trying to pull the "Famous people like it, so you should comply and like it too", "I have connections", "You don't understand because you're just the common folk", the " I don't really care what you think anyway" and also the "You're all worthless so it doesn't matter" cards.
Nice. Remind me why you're still here in F&I. No, wait. Don't. Just go back to GD, please and thank you. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
171
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 22:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
I actually don't have anything against the idea, I was just pretty sure there was a solution to the problem you describe already in game, and it turns out that there is. You issue the contracts, don't let your miners just turn in whatever they want. I'm pretty sure that not only can those contracts be limited to your corp, but actually limited to a particular character, so you could in effect set quotas for each corpmate, and if the contract cancels without being filled you will know who didn't fill it and be able to ask why.
I'd also still point out that it does not matter if the newbie is carrying the ore back to a station, or to your proposed silo, the logistics are still a problem for the newbie in exactly the same way. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 23:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Oh, I see. We didn't all at once rally 'round your first post, showering you with lilies and praises and gold coins and so now you're offended and trying to pull the "Famous people like it, so you should comply and like it too", "I have connections", "You don't understand because you're just the common folk", the " I don't really care what you think anyway" and also the "You're all worthless so it doesn't matter" cards.
Nice. Remind me why you're still here in F&I. No, wait. Don't. Just go back to GD, please and thank you.
I love how the only thing you took away from what I said was a personal attack against you, or my attempt to be important.
Good job, yeah I can't imagine why I'd think this was a waste of time.
CSM7 Skype Leak
|
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 23:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:I'd also still point out that it does not matter if the newbie is carrying the ore back to a station, or to your proposed silo, the logistics are still a problem for the newbie in exactly the same way.
No it's not, not all systems even HAVE stations man.
Most people who would run a corp for mining in low-sec are NOT even going to pick a system with a station for pretty obvious reasons.
Have you ever run a mining corp in low-sec and added new players ?
This is what I'm talking about. Theorycrafting is all well and good, but if you cannot understand the issue, then.... ?
You know the funny thing is there are games out like X3 where 80% of the game is about industry, so the niche for this kind of gameplay is already there. It's a shame that there are so few people left in EvE that have any experience with these kinds of issues.
It's a pretty simple concept.
A PVP corp can move from high-sec to low-sec and not change the way they do things at all, apart from having to be a little more concerned about who's in local - but for some corps - not even that.
You try and move a mining corp from high-sec to low-sec as part of the corps growth cycle even with people who CAN pvp, you quickly find things untenable for many members, and the workload for the CEO grows exponentially so that in the end he cannot physically do all the work - because it is tied up in a contracts system which ONLY deals in individual contracts and only in stations.
This is a way to take out the glass ceiling for both that work, and make life a little more comprehensible for new players who want to be miners in those circumstances. Making these players do logistics from day 1 is unreasonable and makes the profession unpalatable when one can simply go into a belt and shoot rats instead and be paid instantly.
It also allows a corp of 200 guys (for instance) mining, to create decent revenue that isn't necessarily tied to moon mining R64's.
It's really not that hard to understand even without having dealt with the experience of it.
CCP saw fit to fix the bounty system of which about 1-2% of eve players will probably even take part in per month, so one would think that this might also get a look from them.
And the funny thing is most people who complain about such ideas will end up being the same people who complain about miners not wanting to move out of empire - hysterical. CSM7 Skype Leak
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |