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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kate Conner
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.12 01:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know corp theft is allowed by CCP. I just had one question on the subject. If a CSM would be involved in a corp theft, not the toon itself but an alt. wouldnt it be in my best interrest and those of EVE players to know this person is not to be trusted? |
DreznicK
OORt Cloud Research The OORT Cloud
0
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Posted - 2013.06.12 03:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Depends on how you look at it.
CSM is supposed to represent all aspects of EVE. If a CSM was involved in corp theft, it could be considered a qualification. You would also hope that this CSM member was also involved in high -sec ganking, awoxing, scamming, and all the other questionable parts of EVE to fill out their resume for the job.
CSM shouldn't be filled with all carebears or even all null sec players, there should be a mix. And that means the darker side should also have representation. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2586
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Posted - 2013.06.12 03:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
In-game character actions are separate from the out-of-game things the CSM does (see: bring ideas/complaints/concerns/etc. to CCP's attention and vet CCP's ideas).
I recall there being a stink about how some player who happened to be a CSM scammed a player a few years ago. No action (or rule) was taken. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14949
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Posted - 2013.06.12 08:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:I know corp theft is allowed by CCP. I just had one question on the subject. If a CSM would be involved in a corp theft, not the toon itself but an alt. wouldnt it be in my best interrest and those of EVE players to know this person is not to be trusted? So we know it's allowed and even promoted, as a part of the game play of Eve. So why would I care if a CSM was involved in it?
Let me ask you this. Would you inform people if they took your queen in chess, or managed to buy all the expensive plots on monopoly? Somehow I doubt it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kate Conner
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.12 11:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
It more the fact that this CSM used the phrase ``why wouldnt you trust me im a CSM, I`m not allowed to take part in theft or scam, as I would lose my position``. I just find scam are getting a little complex when dealing with fairly new members and they take advantage of us. I don`t find that representing EVE community so well. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
699
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Posted - 2013.06.12 12:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
CSM are Eve's version of politicians.
Politicians deliberately seek to obtain and hold on to power, and the person who wants power is the last person to whom it should be granted. Trust them only as far as you can throw them.
In short: Politicians are twats. CSM are politicians. CSM are twats. QED. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2205
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Posted - 2013.06.12 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:It more the fact that this CSM used the phrase ``why wouldnt you trust me im a CSM, I`m not allowed to take part in theft or scam, as I would lose my position``. I just find scam are getting a little complex when dealing with fairly new members and they take advantage of us. I don`t find that representing EVE community so well.
If a CSM member was using their CSM status as a badge meaning honesty and integrity, only to dupe the ignorant, I'd be rather perturbed with them. At the same time, it is completely allowed, and should stay that way.
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
161
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Posted - 2013.06.12 18:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:It more the fact that this CSM used the phrase ``why wouldnt you trust me im a CSM, I`m not allowed to take part in theft or scam, as I would lose my position``. I just find scam are getting a little complex when dealing with fairly new members and they take advantage of us. I don`t find that representing EVE community so well.
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1365
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Posted - 2013.06.12 22:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:I know corp theft is allowed by CCP. I just had one question on the subject. If a CSM would be involved in a corp theft, not the toon itself but an alt. wouldnt it be in my best interrest and those of EVE players to know this person is not to be trusted?
How do you know they were actually a CSM alt and not just someone pretending to be? |
Kate Conner
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.12 22:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
problem resolved, i showed him this forum and gave me back my assets in isk form. thanks all, for following on this. |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1365
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Posted - 2013.06.12 22:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:problem resolved, i showed him this forum and gave me back my assets in isk form. thanks all, for following on this.
Who was it? By backing down like that, he's lost my vote next time. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2564
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
This belongs more in Jita Park than the Assembly Hall, so I am moving it there. New Eden Community Representative GÇ+ New Eden Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10075
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:I know corp theft is allowed by CCP. I just had one question on the subject. If a CSM would be involved in a corp theft, not the toon itself but an alt. wouldnt it be in my best interrest and those of EVE players to know this person is not to be trusted?
Sort Dragon tried to steal a whole coalition, I don't know if this counts?
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10075
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Posted - 2013.06.13 11:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Kate Conner wrote:It more the fact that this CSM used the phrase ``why wouldnt you trust me im a CSM, I`m not allowed to take part in theft or scam, as I would lose my position``. I just find scam are getting a little complex when dealing with fairly new members and they take advantage of us. I don`t find that representing EVE community so well. I expect each member of the CSM to act as players in game, but to use their CSM position to their advantage?
"Politician" is a synonym for trustworthiness and financial responsibility, nowhere more so than in EVE.
1 Kings 12:11
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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2954
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Posted - 2013.06.13 12:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
CSMs must abide by the TOS, EULA and NDA. As long as their activities fall within these boundaries, that's fine.
As for where those boundaries are in practice, I would suggest that you consult the acknowledged expert, The Mittani -- especially if you are in the market to buy or sell a supercap. I've heard he can be extremely obliging. On CSM, masochism is not an option -- it's a requirement! |
None ofthe Above
649
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:It more the fact that this CSM used the phrase ``why wouldnt you trust me im a CSM, I`m not allowed to take part in theft or scam, as I would lose my position``. I just find scam are getting a little complex when dealing with fairly new members and they take advantage of us. I don`t find that representing EVE community so well.
Well that was foolish. The Mittani used to scam like that all the time, as Chairman no less, as Trebor is sort of pointing out.
But otherwise I think you have it right in that you realize that they are not going to be kicked over it. Depending on the reputation this CSM member is trying to build, this may or may not be a blow to their future aspirations. Since they caved and gave you the ISK it would seem that this is someone purporting to be a "nice guy" and isn't so. Makes me more interested in hearing who this is really.
If Psychotic Monk had made it into the CSM and done this it would be a non-issue or a feather in the cap for him to crow about.
Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1954
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Posted - 2013.06.13 21:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
At least one corp theft should be a mandatory requirement for CSM candidacy. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1336
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote::o]I expect each member of the CSM to act as players in game, but to use their CSM position to their advantage?
The only "advantage" a CSM member would have in-game for anything like this is taking advantage of the right kind of mouthbreather who somehow knows about the CSM but believes they are bound to any kind of special rules beyond what any other player is. If you were trying to pick a motto for Eve, "Ignorance is no excuse" would definitely be up there. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
298
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kate Conner wrote:It more the fact that this CSM used the phrase ``why wouldnt you trust me im a CSM, I`m not allowed to take part in theft or scam, as I would lose my position``. I just find scam are getting a little complex when dealing with fairly new members and they take advantage of us. I don`t find that representing EVE community so well. This is trivially verifiable via a search for information on the CSM (I'm partial to the EVE wiki page)-- while the NDA is featured prominently, that's pretty much the only restriction on CSM conduct. If you're wondering whether or not to trust someone or their claims, a quick visit to your favorite search provider is a helpful (although not infallible) tool.
As for this reflecting poorly on the EVE community...many of the big, popular stories about EVE involve some form of scamming, backstabbing, or other skulduggery. It sucks to lose your stuff (especially a lot of your stuff, especially as a new player), but you can rebuild and go out knowing that you won't fall for that particular one again, having learned a lesson about things which sound too good to be true. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
837
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Posted - 2013.06.13 23:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Anyone that doesn't gank, steal or scam shouldn't be allowed on the CSM. The Tears Must Flow |
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2370
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Anyone that doesn't gank, steal or scam shouldn't be allowed on the CSM.
I think we need a mix as "bad behavior" is one of the things that makes Eve different than most other games. I supported at least one CSM 8 candidate because they seemed to be directly involved in the "dark side" of Eve. While I don't like that side of Eve I accept that it has to be there to keep Eve as challenging as it is meant to be.
Issler |
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association
378
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Anyone that doesn't gank, steal or scam shouldn't be allowed on the CSM.
Really?
So the players who also do not perform such actions have nobody to represent them? No, no morality demands in either direction, good or bad, are requirements for membership in the CSM.
Actions within game and actions of the CSM are distinct and separate entities unless you cross eula and tos lines. That being said, if you elect people who you knew were . . . well THIS
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
161
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:CSMs must abide by the TOS, EULA and NDA. As long as their activities fall within these boundaries, that's fine.... I wonder why many players don't bother to vote?
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Omnium Libertatem
161
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote: The only "advantage" a CSM member would have in-game for anything like this is taking advantage of the right kind of mouthbreather who somehow knows about the CSM but believes they are bound to any kind of special rules beyond what any other player is. If you were trying to pick a motto for Eve, "Ignorance is no excuse" would definitely be up there.
If being a member of the CSM is just another tool in gaining advantage over other players... that is fine, but why would anyone expect the majority of the player base to be involved in this process?
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1279
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Posted - 2013.06.14 21:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Snow Axe wrote: The only "advantage" a CSM member would have in-game for anything like this is taking advantage of the right kind of mouthbreather who somehow knows about the CSM but believes they are bound to any kind of special rules beyond what any other player is. If you were trying to pick a motto for Eve, "Ignorance is no excuse" would definitely be up there.
If being a member of the CSM is just another tool in gaining advantage over other players... that is fine, but why would anyone expect the majority of the player base to be involved in this process? yeah, tools to gain advantages over other players definitely shouldnt interest the majority EVE Online players
"Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10143
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Posted - 2013.06.15 08:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Snow Axe wrote: The only "advantage" a CSM member would have in-game for anything like this is taking advantage of the right kind of mouthbreather who somehow knows about the CSM but believes they are bound to any kind of special rules beyond what any other player is. If you were trying to pick a motto for Eve, "Ignorance is no excuse" would definitely be up there.
If being a member of the CSM is just another tool in gaining advantage over other players... that is fine, but why would anyone expect the majority of the player base to be involved in this process?
Because it's more than just a tool for gaining advantage.
1 Kings 12:11
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1079
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Posted - 2013.06.25 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Anyone that doesn't gank, steal or scam shouldn't be allowed on the CSM. Really? So the players who also do not perform such actions have nobody to represent them? No, no morality demands in either direction, good or bad, are requirements for membership in the CSM. Actions within game and actions of the CSM are distinct and separate entities unless you cross eula and tos lines. That being said, if you elect people who you knew were . . . well THISm
So Mike, how do you feel witnessing the influence the null sec cartels wield with CCP? Have you recognized the futility of it as you are the only member who supposedly is a champion for high sec? Does it feel like you are trying to stop the tide from coming in?
And I ask again, how does CCP stop people from using inside information about future changes in the game for monstrous financial advantage.
Imagine a scenario, and this is of course purely hypothetical.
Let's pretend there is a group that lablels itself "Eve's foremost economic council", and have trillions of isk at their disposal, and a huge network of unaffiliated 3rd party trading alts. Let's say that this group gets someone elected onto the CSM. Naturally, this CSM rep will have advanced knowledge of changes coming to the game, but is precluded from gaining advantage or discussing them because of the NDA.
But what stops them from telling the other members on that council via skype, Teamspeak, mumble, or phone calls, who then use the alt network to buy or sell items well before CCP announces them. How does CCP enforce any kind of EULA, TOS, or NDA under that scenario.
Further, let's assume that this hypothetical economic cabal has a proven track record of using any bit of information that they can glean, through any source possible, to gain an advantage. To suggest people of such low morality and ethics have a place on the CSM is ridiculous., and bad for the game.
Anyone who has demonstrated the inclination to harass or steal from another player is extremely likely to use inside information to gain an economic advantage, and they should be banned from ever holding any position of trust or influence on the game. |
Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
302
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 19:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3240614#post3240614 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26049
*cough*
Yep, nobody else even cares about highsec. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association
389
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Posted - 2013.06.25 19:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
If there were some hypothetical economic elite with trillions of isk at their disposal and one of their head honchos were to manage to control the election enough to get elected
Gods I love hypotheticals.
1) He would probably be powerful enough that the election would be a step down for him 2) The new level of watching/oversight would inhibit his already awesome economic skillz. Even if I accept that he could 'hide' his tricks he would have to make an *effort*
Back to the 'reality'.
I am a high sec rep but Ali works hard in that area as well. A lot of the other players work for the game as a whole. Hard to believe but there you are. Am I going to give examples carefully veiled in hypotheticals? No. NDA is what it is but I do not stand against someone in the council because of a tag attached to their name or who voted them in.
A good idea is a good idea, no stain is attributable due to whose idea it is. The same goes for bad ideas.
Futility? It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1283
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Posted - 2013.06.25 20:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
If this purely hypothetical person is so infamous as you suggest, then both he and his purely hypothetical associates are no doubt - hypothetically - watched rather closely by CCP thanks to their past hypothetical actions, and so CCP no doubt (hypothetically) knows exactly who they are and who their hypothetical alts are. And of course, to actually use these hypothetical alts to act on this hypothetical information, they'd hypothetically have to transfer isk to them someway or another, and it's very much not hypothetical that doing so would leave a trail that CCP could follow, meaning the alts wouldn't really be unaffiliated anymore!
And if this hypothetical person is as devious and brilliant as you hypothetically think, they've no doubt figured this out for themselves, and so even in the unlikely (but hypothetical!) case that they really are as hypothetically free of ethics and morals as you think, they would hypothetically leave things alone and not take advantage of any information that they hypothetically get ahead of time.
Hypothetically, of course. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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