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Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 438	Posted - 2013.06.13 14:59:00 - [31] - Quote Just a little warning from someone that works in the health and wellness field. Vasectomies are not 100% foolproof contraception. Whatever technique is used, there is always the possibility the body will force it lose and allow the vasa deferentia to reattach. So do not ever let a doctor tell you that it is 100% effective and always get at least two post surgical ejaculation evaluations to test if sperm is not present, before having unprotected sex. Also, do not have sex or oral gratification too early as the act of sex can disrupt the procedure.
Malaclypse Muscaria Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 58	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:02:00 - [32] - Quote If you have to come and ask here, don't do it. Doing it because your wife is nagging you to, or because you think the more people to take care of you when you are old the better, are the wrong reasons to do so. Only do it if you genuinely and assuredly want to welcome a new human into your life, take good responsibility and care of his/her education and upbringing, and are willing to undertake the necessary sacrifices and changes in your life/style. (basically, that's why I've never had any children myself)
Niko medes Sonoran Shadow 73	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:06:00 - [33] - Quote Pr1ncess Alia wrote: I don't have any, but sure hope to one day. I'm a few years older than you. End of the day only you can answer the question of whether you want more children. But I'm guessing should you opt to have, say, 4 more kids... when you're surrounded by loving family in your twilight years you'll not be regretting the decision. Remember, you might have to take care of them today, but someday if everything works out as it should, they'll take care of you. So, do you want one child that can only afford the cheap-o nursing home or do you want 5 kids that combined can buy you space in an assisted-living dream come to life? Never thought of it that way
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16265	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:20:00 - [34] - Quote Pr1ncess Alia wrote: So, do you want one child that can only afford the cheap-o nursing home or do you want 5 kids that combined can buy you space in an assisted-living dream come to life? What a lazy, selfish life that is suggested here. Take care of yourself and leave the younger generations to do their thing. Having kids as a collective of resources for you to extract financial succor from is a terrible approach to life.
Khergit Deserters 1202	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:20:00 - [35] - Quote Slade Trillgon wrote: Whatever technique is used, there is always the possibility the body will force it lose and allow the vasa deferentia to reattach. So do not ever let a doctor tell you that it is 100% effective and always get at least two post surgical ejaculation evaluations to test if sperm is not present, before having unprotected sex. Dang, those vasa defentia are stubborn, aren't they? My friend had to do those post-surgical evaluations. The female nurse offered him two options: a) Go to the restroom over there and collect a sample. There are some magazines in there. b) We have this device we can attach. It sends an electrical current that will make you ejaculate. My friend was a little shy and didn't like either option. So he came up with option c), which was to have his wife bring the van around during her lunch hour. They collected the sample in the parking lot.
Plastic Psycho Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:23:00 - [36] - Quote Kult Altol wrote: I'm 16 years old and have 4 kids. Just kidding. I'm 27 years and already have one daughter. Wife is bugging me to have another one. Anyone out there have more than one kid at my age? Hell, I didn't even get married 'til I was 29! Biggest advantage of having kids earlier is you have more energy to chase them about. Second biggest advantage is having energy to go out and enjoy yourselves once they're old enough to take care of themselves. Downside? You're typically not making as much as older parents, so finances are tighter. Your relationship with your spouse may not be as settled and stable yet, either - depending on when you got married. Having kids close in age to each other has advantages and disadvantages, too - two kids in diapers is a PAIN. OTOH, kids close in age play better together. OTOOH, older kid can help care for younger kid, or at least isn't as much of a care burden. Really, there's no right way to do things, so long as they reach the age of majority alive, healthy, and able to cope with the real world. Make that goal, and you've officially "Done Good." (We waited five years for our first, and they're six years apart. Works OK for us.)
Plastic Psycho Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:36:00 - [37] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Pr1ncess Alia wrote: So, do you want one child that can only afford the cheap-o nursing home or do you want 5 kids that combined can buy you space in an assisted-living dream come to life? What a lazy, selfish life that is suggested here. Take care of yourself and leave the younger generations to do their thing. Having kids as a collective of resources for you to extract financial succor from is a terrible approach to life. You realize that there are entire - ancient, large, and successful - cultures that operate along those lines, even in todays modern economies? You just crapped on a large part of Asia's cultural heritage/social contract/baggage.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16269	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:47:00 - [38] - Quote Khergit Deserters wrote: Dang, those vasa defentia are stubborn, aren't they? It's definitely been a day for that kind of sentence.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16269	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:51:00 - [39] - Quote Plastic Psycho wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Pr1ncess Alia wrote: So, do you want one child that can only afford the cheap-o nursing home or do you want 5 kids that combined can buy you space in an assisted-living dream come to life? What a lazy, selfish life that is suggested here. Take care of yourself and leave the younger generations to do their thing. Having kids as a collective of resources for you to extract financial succor from is a terrible approach to life. You realize that there are entire - ancient, large, and successful - cultures that operate along those lines, even in todays modern economies? You just crapped on a large part of Asia's cultural heritage/social contract/baggage. Yeah, and look at all the exploited Indian and Pakistani and Bangladesh women in those very cultures who slave themselves unto death-by-collapsed-factory labor, in order to keep grandma comfy.......and probably not by thier choice either. IT's just another way to exploit humans. Just because 'many cultures' practice it does not make it a good idea.
Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 450	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:53:00 - [40] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Pr1ncess Alia wrote: So, do you want one child that can only afford the cheap-o nursing home or do you want 5 kids that combined can buy you space in an assisted-living dream come to life? What a lazy, selfish life that is suggested here. Take care of yourself and leave the younger generations to do their thing. Having kids as a collective of resources for you to extract financial succor from is a terrible approach to life. The point I believe she was trying to make is many will end up in a situation where we will need much assistance. That is unless we have the cahones to finish the job ourselves, which is my preferred option. Trust me, I see people on a daily basis who have been abandoned by their children. It is not a pretty sight. So, just because you have children does not mean they will help you, so do not bank on that ever, but to say that needing your children's assistance is selfish is not completely true.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16270	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:00:00 - [41] - Quote Slade Trillgon wrote: The point I believe she was trying to make is many will end up in a situation where we will need much assistance. That is unless we have the cahones to finish the job ourselves, which is my preferred option. Trust me, I see people on a daily basis who have been abandoned by their children. It is not a pretty sight. So, just because you have children does not mean they will help you, so do not bank on that ever, but to say that needing your children's assistance is selfish is not completely true. I'm more of the 'tough luck' type I guess. You brought the children into this world, and they are your responsibility, not the other way around. If one didn't raise their children well enough to love them back or care about them back, then what went wrong needs a looking into. Did the children who abandoned their parents do so because they can't afford it, or do they have reasons not too ? One thing I have learned in 48 years is that folks pretty much reap what they sow.
Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 455	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:07:00 - [42] - Quote Elders, as far as I read and seen in history texts and documentaries, have typically been revered and taken care of in most societies in the history of the world. A century ago, we did not typically grow up and leave the farmstead, generations lived in the same house and contributed until they could no longer contribute and then the rest would make them as comfortable as they could until their demise. they did not toss people in a nursing home and forget they were there. The fact that we treat elders like **** nowadays has more to do with the current level of greed and selfishness in the world. EDIT: I guess in some cases what you say about, we reap what we so, is very true, but there are probably just as many cases where the parents did all they could, but the child/ren are selfish, greedy, rotten apples. Hence my last statement
Khergit Deserters 1204	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:38:00 - [43] - Quote (Sorry, another one of my old timer stories, but it has a point). A family I knew in a rural village Micronesia was having a lot of inconvenience with grandma. She was getting senile, immobile, incontinent, all the stuff that happens to you at a certain age. She lived with the family of course, and it was becoming a burden to the everybody. The wife of the family asked me, "How do Americans take care of old people?" -"Mostly, they go to live in a home for old people." "Are the other people there family members?" -"Well, they could be, but mostly they're just other old people." "Why don't your grandmas and grandmas stay with you?" -"Well, the husband and wife usually both have jobs. So there's nobody at home to take care of the old folks." "But do you go see them everyday at the rest home?" -"Well, maybe. But not usually." "How often do you go see them?" -"Well, maybe once a week. Or if you live in another city, you can't go as often." Eyes got wide, everybody looked at me like I was some kind of cruel monster. They couldn't imagine the scenario of putting away somewhere. This was coming from some pretty tough people, historically kind of notorious for being rough warriors/killers. Machete-swingers, not that many generations away from the head hunting days. But in this case, they were the ones who thought it was the Americans that were uncivilized.
Hedian Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.06.13 22:44:00 - [44] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Plastic Psycho wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Pr1ncess Alia wrote: So, do you want one child that can only afford the cheap-o nursing home or do you want 5 kids that combined can buy you space in an assisted-living dream come to life? What a lazy, selfish life that is suggested here. Take care of yourself and leave the younger generations to do their thing. Having kids as a collective of resources for you to extract financial succor from is a terrible approach to life. You realize that there are entire - ancient, large, and successful - cultures that operate along those lines, even in todays modern economies? You just crapped on a large part of Asia's cultural heritage/social contract/baggage. Yeah, and look at all the exploited Indian and Pakistani and Bangladesh women in those very cultures who slave themselves unto death-by-collapsed-factory labor, in order to keep grandma comfy.......and probably not by thier choice either. IT's just another way to exploit humans. Just because 'many cultures' practice it does not make it a good idea. edit: In fact in India it's pretty much now considered OK to publicly ** women. That's the end-game of this 'culture'. Yeah some flamboyant guy from san fran would know all about that. ** off racist.
NightCrawler 85 Phoibe Enterprises 691	Posted - 2013.06.14 01:12:00 - [45] - Quote Honestly if you have to question if you are ready for/want more kids that alone should answer your question. I have a step daughter, but i don't have "a kid of my own that i gave birth to and raised from that moment", and both my husband and I know we do not want more kids for various reasons. But thats the thing, it was not really a conversation, or a discussion. It was a flat out "No". Of course i often hear "Well you will change your mind in a few years" (heard that one since i was 20) but that does not change the fact that right now, i have no desire to have kids. Now for those saying that you should not have to question if your a good parent or not. Sorry but i can not agree to this! Maybe its because i am a step parent, and teenage girls is a handful to say it mildly, but i have had to question my self over and over again if i did the right thing, said the right things, made the right decisions and so on, and i know my husband have had the same questions as well. If you don't question your self (and your better half) you will both be in a situation were you don't accept failure and don't leave room for learning. And at some point, you will be wrong. Maybe you were overprotective, maybe you just overreacted, maybe you just reacted badly because of fear. Who knows. The point is, it will happen, and how you and your better half deal with it is what will help show you if your a "good" parent or not. Sorry but raising a kid is not something that is "natural", not everyone is "good" at it, and no one is "perfect" at it. Allow your self to have those self doubts, but if its something you feel is truly right stick with it, even if the kids screams how much they hate you because they cant sleep over at their boyfriends house Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Pr1ncess Alia Perkone Caldari State 337	Posted - 2013.06.14 03:55:00 - [46] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Slade Trillgon wrote: The point I believe she was trying to make is many will end up in a situation where we will need much assistance. That is unless we have the cahones to finish the job ourselves, which is my preferred option. Trust me, I see people on a daily basis who have been abandoned by their children. It is not a pretty sight. So, just because you have children does not mean they will help you, so do not bank on that ever, but to say that needing your children's assistance is selfish is not completely true. I'm more of the 'tough luck' type I guess. You brought the children into this world, and they are your responsibility, not the other way around. If one didn't raise their children well enough to love them back or care about them back, then what went wrong needs a looking into. Did the children who abandoned their parents do so because they can't afford it, or do they have reasons not too ? One thing I have learned in 48 years is that folks pretty much reap what they sow. In MY family? Family looks out for each other. They are there for you and you're always there for them when they need you, no if's and's or but's. When my grandparents started dying and one was left alone, my parents (in the case of my mom's mom) and my parents siblings (in the case of my dad's mom) took them in and cared for them. They are family and even though we had the money to put them in a comfy home, it seemed only right that they be cared for by us. It was the least we could, after all they cared for us for decades on end. (Mom's mom did eventually go to a old folks home, but because she wanted to. They lived in elderly apartment community for their last 25 years together and she missed living and socializing with people her own age.) When my parents enter that stage of life, I'm going to see to it they have the same comfort and welcome. I feel sorry for you if life robbed of ever being able to look at family as a unit like this. It's one of the most rewarding things we have in this world and a refuge you can always turn to. It sounds more like your projecting your own family's failures onto everyone else? I'm sorry your so obviously jaded.
Kult Altol Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet 411	Posted - 2013.06.14 08:08:00 - [47] - Quote Great discussion. I see nothing wrong for kids to take care of their parents when they get older. Its a better alternative to being put in a nursing home. My wife used to work in one and those places are just places where people wait to die. Also, having kids just to take care of you when you get older is not good a reason to have children. I'm probably going to have another, just not now. Being a younger parent has TONS of advantages. For instance keeping up with technology. The only disadvantage of being a young parent for me is financial. But even so, who DOESN'T really have finical hardship at any age? Does anyone ever go, "welp, that's enough money, I don't need to make more." An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
McEvil Apex Nebula Ventures 10	Posted - 2013.06.14 08:37:00 - [48] - Quote I usually just lurk but, I read this and felt an urge to reply because as a nurse I deal with this stuff on a daily basis. I see people dropped off in our emergency department (A&E for the UK types) and sometimes I just want to start punching people in the throat for treating their parents the way that they do. Some things I have seen in the last week: Fifty something couple that dropped their elderly demented father off and left without telling us what is going on with them so they can go out to dinner/movie/bar/whatever and were very,very upset that we discharged him after he was treated. Nursing homes who neglect their parents and send them to us covered in urine and crap from their toes to their nose complete with bedsores and open wounds and then don't know why they sent them in the first place, this happens several times a night btw. And on the opposite end of the spectrum we have the spoiled, overindulged bratty children that have "mystery symptoms" that manifest only when directly observed. The child that called her mother a F*ing * and then slapped her in the face because she wouldnt buy her McDonald's(this is 'mericuh after all). Personally I think that this is all connected in a way, we as parents(I have a 10 year old daughter) have an obligation to provide for our children and make them responsible adults. We teach them these skills, either directly or by observation, to become adults and if we screw this up this is what happens. I by no means am a perfect parent but my daughter understands that there are consequences to her actions and many in the general public don't get this, each action has a reaction. In the past few years I have seen a serious decrease in the amount of dicipline in the home and as a direct result of this you get this disconnect from the family group. It's just my opinion but, it seems that overall our society is heading into the crapper. But, maybe I'm just jaded...or an *****....
Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 504	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:17:00 - [49] - Quote I will also add that life expectancy also plays a major role in the situation. Sometimes people are not capable for caring for a fully dependent parent for decades. It is not like they can swiftly be picked up and given a bath, or thrown in a car seat and taken to the doctor. I so want to delve into the topic of why societies that 'believe' that the afterlife is peaches and cream are so scared to let go of life... Dr. Kevorkian.... but that is just a further derail from the OP.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16459	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:26:00 - [50] - Quote Pr1ncess Alia wrote: It sounds more like your projecting your own family's failures onto everyone else? I'm sorry your so obviously jaded. Not my family's but those of the many many many many many people I have known over the past 48 years. Nowhere did indicate that this was the situation with my family. It is how I feel based on the observed experience of others.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3106	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:27:00 - [51] - Quote Kult Altol wrote: I'm 16 years old and have 4 kids. Just kidding. I'm 27 years and already have one daughter. Wife is bugging me to have another one. Anyone out there have more than one kid at my age? No, fortunately I've been blessed with the inability to reproduce. If you head to high-density welfare suburbs you can find plenty of 16 year olds with 3-4 kids though. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16475	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:37:00 - [52] - Quote And the third grandchild added yesterday caused a celebration of this travesty on the Today Show this morning: http://www.duggarfamily.com/ Yes folks, 19 kids and counting................. edit: Isn't having to do 80 loads of laundry a week just a little bit too much of a demand upon anyone ? And that's just the laundry. Imagine their food costs. Is there any money left to even go on vacation and show these poor children The World ?
Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 582	Posted - 2013.06.14 13:40:00 - [53] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: And the third grandchild added yesterday caused a celebration of this travesty on the Today Show this morning: http://www.duggarfamily.com/ Yes folks, 19 kids and counting................. edit: Isn't having to do 80 loads of laundry a week just a little bit too much of a demand upon anyone ? And that's just the laundry. Imagine their food costs. Is there any money left to even go on vacation and show these poor children The World ? Also, these folks get so many Income Tax deductions for each child that they pay absolutely no taxes. Well, considering that we have washing machines I would say no, make the kids fold them and when they turn 12 they get to learn to wash their own clothes. But it looks like they are taking care of the children fairly well even though I find their motivation archaic. 'In 1800, the typical American woman had seven to 10 children,' could you imagine doing all the cooking, cleaning, and washboarding, while probably being pregnant
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16538	Posted - 2013.06.14 13:51:00 - [54] - Quote Slade Trillgon wrote: As for your traveling comment, apparently you missed the world tour slide show on the web site. Granted some of those photos could be shopped I mean, I just can't imagine having to book, what, 7 or 8 motel rooms every night for 2 weeks or so ? Wow. I can pretty much guarantee you those vacations were supported by donations from their church. In fact, that's probably the only thing keeping this family viable, not the parents themselves. That's just great teaching their kids to rely exclusively on others to get through life.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band 693	Posted - 2013.06.14 17:26:00 - [55] - Quote being an only child may have a few perks .... but in general it sucks
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 16605	Posted - 2013.06.14 17:45:00 - [56] - Quote Kitty Bear wrote: being an only child may have a few perks .... but in general it sucks I kinda got the best of both worlds. My 2 older sisters were 12 and 14 years older than me, so when I was in the 1st grade, the younger sister was graduating from High School, then was off to college (as well, the older sister). So from the age of 6 onwards I was sorta raised as only child, but then my sisters would visit (or actually move back in for awhile when things were not going so well). However, this still leaves me at a loss for determining which is better, lots of siblings or only-child. I'm not really sure.
Kult Altol Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet 417	Posted - 2013.06.15 21:32:00 - [57] - Quote Kitty Bear wrote: being an only child may have a few perks .... but in general it sucks You do bring up a good point I was always envious of my friends that had siblings when I was child. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
Vortexo VonBrenner Coldest Sea Sailing 437	Posted - 2013.06.16 22:03:00 - [58] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Random McNally wrote: Kult Altol wrote: Also, whats the definition of a "good parent" My wife and I discuss this a lot. Since we question our own parenting style. I still do. Just the act of questioning whether you are doing a good job should be commended. Yep! ^^this defintion of good parenting: Lots of Love + time = good parent Money is not important, demonstrated love is. Have another kid (or more!) and adopt a kid from a third-world place too (really). Don't wait until you think you are ready - you may never feel ready. Go for it. source: two kids before I was 24...glad I got that over with, someday they can pay my way I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming.
Hrothgar Nilsson Black Guards 352	Posted - 2013.06.17 02:04:00 - [59] - Quote My philosophy on marriage and kids. Wait until you're 40-50. Marry a girl 24-32. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8
Slade Trillgon Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 604	Posted - 2013.06.18 13:00:00 - [60] - Quote Hrothgar Nilsson wrote: My philosophy on marriage and kids. Wait until you're 40-50. Marry a girl 24-32. The mother of my daughter is 7 years younger than I. If you are 50 you do not want to be trying to keep up with the children and 24 year old kid Joking aside. Men are lucky that we can postpone propagating, but I am not sure I would want the age difference between me and the mother of my children to be much more than a decade, otherwise I feel the social gap may be to much to overcome for both parties... but that is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth.

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