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Zelfor
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Posted - 2005.11.15 22:00:00 -
[1]
Just logged onto the test server, and as i have been reading. major chnages have been made to warping around and bookmarks. It seems to me that in the 2.5+ years i have been playing EVE, this is the worst idea CCP has come up with yet, and the effects will be disaterous.
CCP seems to have instantiated these changes to placiate a fervernt but small group of unsatisfied customers IE the ones whineing about how instas are unfair. In a game where pirates are common, ganking all too common, these changes will only cause more problems. Those complaining about instas are a minority, even though they are very outspoken. With warp bubbles and the upcomeing interdictors, CCP has and will provide even more means to stop insta jumpers. By allowing these changes to take place it will be a overcompensation for human lazyness ( put up a bubble " naw too far out from empire, too expensive " ) Though i agree 0.0 is too easy this is going a bit far.
I may have stated this before or not, but insta's are a example of player ingenuity and adaptability. By removeing instas, all the time and thought involved will be wasted. Not to mention makeing an allready "gank" based game even more geared to "ganking". Realize that this is a mistake please CCP, before more harm is caused.
BTW: the bloody font looks like crap, like it was right after the last major patch, stop bloody playing round with stuff thats fine.
"we all have the power to change the world. but few know how to utilize it"
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SPIONKOP
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Posted - 2005.11.15 23:48:00 -
[2]
Its early days so I am guessing this is the first attempt at changing the instas and bookmarks generally.
Until they actually tell me what is supposed to happen then I will find it diffiuclt to judge how it will affect my game play. Until then i will reserve judgement.
I am getting mixed results but this could be due to bugs, I simply don't know. I am sure they will tell us more when they are ready.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.11.16 00:07:00 -
[3]
maybe itd be better if they told us what its actually supposed to do/happen ;p
then we can report bugs instead of thinking they meant it that way ;p
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Death Bliss
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Posted - 2005.11.16 00:36:00 -
[4]
Think ccp....insas have been around forever, taking them away is like slitting a tire on your Diablo, i makes it unsafe from camps and slows you down. in .0 you can go up to 50+ jumps and that takes a while even with insatas, without them, it takes away that accesibility. That will screw things up. Also it will also slow down fleets or even stop them. gate camping will be more popular but will be even more borring.
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Rendill
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Posted - 2005.11.16 00:42:00 -
[5]
CCP's best move yet. To be applauded.
CEO |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.11.16 01:21:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Rendill
CCP's best move yet. To be applauded.
Yup because people shouldn't be able to move around in low sec in anything except an Inty or with ten mates. 
And I heard the noise of thunder. And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
Wuhu
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Posted - 2005.11.16 01:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Zelfor
I may have stated this before or not, but insta's are a example of player ingenuity and adaptability. By removeing instas, all the time and thought involved will be wasted.
Amen! This is a player run game, so quit changing things when you decide you don't like the way players have taken the game. I like instas for tavel and everything else. Listen to the rest of us for a change.
Originally by: Zelfor
BTW: the bloody font looks like crap, like it was right after the last major patch, stop bloody playing round with stuff thats fine.
Haven't seen the font, but I'll agree it sucks! Just going off everything else I hear about the proposed changes. And I agree with the last sentence.
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skitszo
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Posted - 2005.11.16 03:14:00 -
[8]
reminds me of some song "Ganksters Paradise"
if your gonna make it easier to gank then make it easier to replace all the clones/gear/ships/named gear/ isk/ mining/ minerals/ clones/ pods/
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Cintrix
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Posted - 2005.11.16 04:13:00 -
[9]
Making changes on things that people have already put in a considerable effort to train for / use / create is just ridiculous. You can't make any long term plans as far as training is concerned because you don't know which rules or ships will be nerfed next. All you can be sure of is that something WILL be nerfed and more people will be ****ed off while the people that it didn't affect will secretly laugh at the people complaining about the changes.....that is until their slice of the pie is nerfed.
That is the surest way to the end of the game.
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VaderDSL
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Posted - 2005.11.16 04:23:00 -
[10]
from info from a corp friend they havent changed the font by messing around with it, they've switched over to a unicode font for multilingual support afaik, and in terms of the warp changes they have been forced to.
Copying bookmarked and having the tens upon tens of thousands stored on the servers eats up hellish amounts of server time, instas have to go - this is also the first installment of the change no dount it will be tweaked.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.16 06:04:00 -
[11]
its not the small minority that are whining its the lag that comes from all those instas being used that is why CCP have nerfed it - as well as the drones
Its lag not whining that has led to this
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Lady Amira
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Posted - 2005.11.16 06:50:00 -
[12]
I was under the impression the insta nerf was to help combat lag rather than assist the gate campers.
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Jolan Kalduli
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Posted - 2005.11.16 08:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jolan Kalduli on 16/11/2005 08:25:40
I'm not sure how *this* change helps the server, as the bookmarks aren't actually being removed. My interpretation is they are just setting them to the nearest object, which doesn't logicaly help your database problem since there are alreay millions of BMs in existance.
I think they should just make the IJ official. Make them more efficient by templating the IJ in a table and just record when a gate has been mapped. I loved them when I came to EVE because they gave the explorer type something to actually do!
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Shugo Kazuma
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Posted - 2005.11.16 09:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lady Amira
I was under the impression the insta nerf was to help combat lag rather than assist the gate campers.
That's the idea, though I must say I think it would be easier to just delete any bookmarks not in your "people and places" (ie, the ones stored in cans), but give people enough time to retrieve their in storage bookmarks to select and keep the ones they really want, then do the wipe daily at downtime to keep people from just starting over and doing the same thing.
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Chriton
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Posted - 2005.11.16 10:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jolan Kalduli
Edited by: Jolan Kalduli on 16/11/2005 08:25:40
I'm not sure how *this* change helps the server, as the bookmarks aren't actually being removed. My interpretation is they are just setting them to the nearest object, which doesn't logicaly help your database problem since there are alreay millions of BMs in existance.
AFAIK the lag is not a result of the number of bookmarks, but the process taking place when players start to copy the bookmarks.
I think (by reading the forum threads only) this is a major step backwards. Speceially that players in a way are forced into PvP and are forced into gangs. I know this is a MMORG but doing this takes away a LOT from all the players enjoying soloing from time to time.
Maybe making the BMs and offline thing? A set of coordinates saved on the client side. Copying the BMs would be done by peer-to-peer communication (or maybe through the proxy) but without requiring DB access at the cluster. This would ofcourse need some tweaking but without any deeper insight in the workings of EVE I'd think this could relieve a lot of BM lag from the servers AND not require and BM nerf.
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. o And that's the way the cookie crumbles o . |
Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 10:42:00 -
[16]
Anything stored on the client side is open to exploitation by hacker - basicly within a few weeks / month somone would work out how to hack it and then basicly work out how to abuse the game...
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Chriton
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Posted - 2005.11.16 10:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Burlock Ironfist
Anything stored on the client side is open to exploitation by hacker - basicly within a few weeks / month somone would work out how to hack it and then basicly work out how to abuse the game...
True. I can easily imagine this. Thus the "tweaking" requirement. Encrypting it maybe? I don't know. It was just a conecpt I had pondered.
Oh and... Buddy Christ 4tw.
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. o And that's the way the cookie crumbles o . |
Virtuozzo
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Posted - 2005.11.16 11:51:00 -
[18]
Why oh why didn't they choose the middle road, you know the one which circumvents the extremes which never suit everybody or even a majority ... keep insta's as they are but make them a Corporation asset. No more individual insta's, just corporate insta's with accompanying roles / rights for adding new ones and deleting old ones to/from a corporate repository. No issues on the usage of insta's, and a hell of a lot less of the supposed "issues" with copying.
Travel times .. I can see that argument alright.
As for the whining :P Omg give up alright. You can get anyone using insta's ... professionalism and bubbles ftw. You never needed your target to not use insta's, you just needed a bit of gear and a bit of skill.
Virtuozzo
RECRUITMENT TEASERS. Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" |
Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.11.16 11:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chriton
Originally by: Jolan Kalduli
Edited by: Jolan Kalduli on 16/11/2005 08:25:40
I'm not sure how *this* change helps the server, as the bookmarks aren't actually being removed. My interpretation is they are just setting them to the nearest object, which doesn't logicaly help your database problem since there are alreay millions of BMs in existance.
AFAIK the lag is not a result of the number of bookmarks, but the process taking place when players start to copy the bookmarks.
I think (by reading the forum threads only) this is a major step backwards. Speceially that players in a way are forced into PvP and are forced into gangs. I know this is a MMORG but doing this takes away a LOT from all the players enjoying soloing from time to time.
Maybe making the BMs and offline thing? A set of coordinates saved on the client side. Copying the BMs would be done by peer-to-peer communication (or maybe through the proxy) but without requiring DB access at the cluster. This would ofcourse need some tweaking but without any deeper insight in the workings of EVE I'd think this could relieve a lot of BM lag from the servers AND not require and BM nerf.
Also means you could manualy make your self a BM and thus cheat to reach specific areas.
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Doltish
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Posted - 2005.11.16 12:01:00 -
[20]
All I know is that I used the "warp at 0km" option and I wound up 32 km from the gate I was going to in a Badger II.
I assume they are gonna be doing soem further tweaking :-P
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 12:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Burlock Ironfist on 16/11/2005 12:11:17
Quote:
Why oh why didn't they choose the middle road, you know the one which circumvents the extremes which never suit everybody or even a majority ... keep insta's as they are but make them a Corporation asset. No more individual insta's, just corporate insta's with accompanying roles / rights for adding new ones and deleting old ones to/from a corporate repository. No issues on the usage of insta's, and a hell of a lot less of the supposed "issues" with copying.
The copying is a problem but what causes alot of lag is when everyone jumps into a system all the BM's you have (weather they would be owned by yourself or your even your suggestion of corp) have to be loaded up into that system. My hope is that they are bring this is stage by stage into the test server and at the moment havent removed BM's untill they have sorted out the other warp options. Once the other warp option are sorted and they are happy with it they should remove all BM's... (or certainly all BM's within 300KM of a gate)
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.11.16 12:18:00 -
[22]
hi zelf havent seen u for a bit :)
read that they wehre introducing modules that make the warp more accurate, so travilers with travil setups wount be effected much
im happy about the changes though, instas are pretty over powered atm, ever tried to chase down a frig, af, cepter in 0.1+? they nearly instawarp, and land on the gate with an insta, its rpetty impossible to kill them
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Sinthion
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Posted - 2005.11.16 12:55:00 -
[23]
Ive been talkig about this change all morning, check it out. All im after was the facts...its here.
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Vidur
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Posted - 2005.11.16 13:13:00 -
[24]
2 Things:
1. If this makes it to TQ it will make the game more boring to play.
2. If I keep on playing I will simply add a few max grid warpin bm to warp to first to check the status on the gate, so for me the number of BM will stay the same.
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Nemeshisu
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Posted - 2005.11.17 02:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Nemeshisu on 17/11/2005 02:43:46
Edited by: Nemeshisu on 17/11/2005 02:41:14
Originally by: Burlock Ironfist
The copying is a problem but what causes alot of lag is when everyone jumps into a system all the BM's you have (weather they would be owned by yourself or your even your suggestion of corp) have to be loaded up into that system. My hope is that they are bring this is stage by stage into the test server and at the moment havent removed BM's untill they have sorted out the other warp options. Once the other warp option are sorted and they are happy with it they should remove all BM's... (or certainly all BM's within 300KM of a gate)
Then why not have bookmarks handled client side and only send information (the coordinates for the bookmarks location) to the server if the player selects a bookmark? You wouldn't be able to have your bookmarks on multiple computers unless you copied over the physical files from the hard drive, but at least it would reduce the server CPU time for loading up thousands of bookmarks every session change.
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Andouus La
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Posted - 2005.11.17 06:18:00 -
[26]
I've tested the new system on sisi test server.
a) most of the time I jump at 10km.
b) i've checked the bookmarks I have stored in my client version and coodinates where gone from the edit view option.
This is the worse scenario option. Will just make mining runs in barges longer.
Peeps will not go in low sec. Empire will get more crampyer then it is right now.
Will make low sec a ganking party frenzy. Especialy whith the new sentry drones.
Checked also new pirates flagging in 0.9 and below. You will receive criminal flagging for engaging npc pirates in belts. Upcomming patch will be really hard on the mining business in eve.
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Tadamitsu
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Posted - 2005.11.17 08:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: VaderDSL
Copying bookmarked and having the tens upon tens of thousands stored on the servers eats up hellish amounts of server time, instas have to go - this is also the first installment of the change no dount it will be tweaked.
Correction.. not have to go, but have to change
Remove the need to copy thousands of bm's but you must leave me with the ability to make and copy my bm's cause I need to make bm's for safespots and can locations, when running mining ops.
Talk is cheap, whisky costs money.
you got any cash? |
Tadamitsu
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Posted - 2005.11.17 08:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Doltish
All I know is that I used the "warp at 0km" option and I wound up 32 km from the gate I was going to in a Badger II.
I assume they are gonna be doing soem further tweaking :-P
let us hope so. 
Talk is cheap, whisky costs money.
you got any cash? |
Helion Darkstar
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Posted - 2005.11.17 08:33:00 -
[29]
Warp Accuracy
Rank 3
Primary: Int
Secondary: Perc
Preqrequistes: Navigation 5, Warp Drive Ops 5
Effect: improve warp in distance accuracy by 2% per level.
simple quick and easy dont you think?
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.11.17 12:37:00 -
[30]
I have yet to try this on Sisi but the idea of having every chance of being Km's from a gate in hostile teritory at the mercy of anyone that feels like shooting them will I feel put off a lot of new players, and keep too many players in empire space causing more lag!!
"Eve is not all about PVP"
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.17 16:48:00 -
[31]
Quote:
"Eve is not all about PVP"
and that is why you have empire space - 0.0 areas should be all about PvP and being able to defend your space. i welcome the ideas there is nothing harder than trying to secure a area od space where everyone can ista warp and you have no chance of catchign them. Im a carebear myself but i still welcome the idea - it means that if you want to go to dangerous areas you have to do it in a team - not just get a good set of BM's. BM's are a exploit the only mistake CCP have made in this whole issue is letting BM's beciase as widely used as they have been.
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Lilly Aloyisa
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Posted - 2005.11.17 19:56:00 -
[32]
Of all the things CCP has chosen to put in, this has got to be on the worst ideas they've had.
/preps to hit the "Cancel" button for both accounts.
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Stepping Razor
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Posted - 2005.11.17 20:27:00 -
[33]
All they have to do is fix warp bubbles so they work reliably and predictably, then make all gates and stations instas unless another range is selected.
Thus, travel is FASTER most of the time, and allows for forced PbP using warp bubbles exactly as they were designed.
Currently bubbles are much too dependant on the pilot's angle of approach. Modify them all so that they drop a ship out of warp at the edge of their bubble every time, make the radius of bubbles larger and then people can just anchor one at the gate at zero KMS. Thus all ppl warping to the gates stop 2.5 KM from jump range with a small, 6KM from jump range with a medium and 10KM from jump range with a L bubble (if they ever get released).
Simple. Then we don't need insta bookmarks anymore, CCP could take them all from us, and more of us would actually USE bubbles for small action PvP, rather than saving them for the multi-bubble mass-camp blobs.
Razor
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Kusotarre
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Posted - 2005.11.18 03:05:00 -
[34]
Calm down, everyone.
TomB has said that these changes won't be implemented on TQ, they're just starting to try out different ideas.
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Tana Pleiades
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Posted - 2005.11.18 18:34:00 -
[35]
Insta lag
Its a simple location based upon target equation. store instas on local machines like you do the folders if you dont like your servers having to access them from stored data. Its part of the game adapt your server to fit your creation. Or lose all your subscribers apart from the pirates. (who will then leave as nobody turns up in 0.0 any more).
As for lag you make a million pounds a year from eve subs. buy more kit. (70k subs x 14 pounds)
The eve community is united. ban em you ban us.
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