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Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1112
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Elder Scrolls online just made a promise that will lead them down the road to failure then F2P within a year.
"Linear Loot Progression"
There has only been a handful of games that have suceeded wtih this model, WoW being one of them.
The list of failed MMOs that use this system is too immense to fit in a single post.
This is my plea to CCP, who is currently developing "World of Darkness".
DO NOT ADOPT A LINEAR LOOT PROGRESSION MODEL.
or if you do, make it a temporary one, I am aware that to some extent EVE uses linear loot progression, T1, m1-4, T2, faction, and officer.
But the short-term ownership of these modules keeps the game fresh.
I login to EVE today with a renewed respect for the sandbox, Thanks again CCP =) One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
331
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Elder Scrolls online just made a promise that will lead them down the road to failure then F2P within a year.
"Linear Loot Progression"
There has only been a handful of games that have suceeded wtih this model, WoW being one of them.
The list of failed MMOs that use this system is too immense to fit in a single post.
This is my plea to CCP, who is currently developing "World of Darkness".
DO NOT ADOPT A LINEAR LOOT PROGRESSION MODEL.
or if you do, make it a temporary one, I am aware that to some extent EVE uses linear loot progression, T1, m1-4, T2, faction, and officer.
But the short-term ownership of these modules keeps the game fresh.
If the WOD background is anything to go by, it will be as cutthroat and backstabby as EvE on a good night.
Tell The Others |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
4559
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
One does not simply post in GD after smoking ones lunch. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
238
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
What in the sweet fucken baby Jesus is this sh!t thread about?!
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Jimmy Morane
Aurora Novae Aetatis Expoit This Mf's
12
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ahh Tom, I was beginning to think someone had turned you off but finally, alas, you make a thread. |
JamesCLK
320
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr. Orange wrote:What in the sweet fucken baby Jesus is this sh!t thread about?!
Tiered loot progression.
Essentially TESO has a case of purple legendary item syndrome. -- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1116
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 21:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
JamesCLK wrote:Mr. Orange wrote:What in the sweet fucken baby Jesus is this sh!t thread about?! Tiered loot progression. Essentially TESO has a case of purple legendary item syndrome.
Yep. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Capt Tenguru10
Nintendo Power Against ALL Authorities
945
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Posted - 2013.06.14 21:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tbh I'm prob leving eve for WoD , eve I boring and has hit it's high points. I'm looking forward to the new CCP vampire in space game. http://i.imgur.com/EYX5Zi7.gif |
Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
300
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Posted - 2013.06.14 21:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
On the other hand, GW2 originally did not have tiered loot progression, but have since incorporated it. There are plenty of people who enjoy chasing carrots and they are heavily populated in the MMO scene. |
GreenSeed
465
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Posted - 2013.06.14 21:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
what kills MMOs is the disease of the "end game", what keeps EVE apart from all the garbage MMOs out there is the lack of "end game".
"end game" and all the ******** chipmunks that as soon as a new MMO is announced ask "but, but, what is the end game like?" are the reason so many great franchises die horribly.
good thing those weaklings get weeded out withing 5 minutes of playing eve. |
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Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
181
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Posted - 2013.06.14 22:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Elder Scrolls online just made a promise that will lead them down the road to failure then F2P within a year.
"Linear Loot Progression"
There has only been a handful of games that have suceeded wtih this model, WoW being one of them.
The list of failed MMOs that use this system is too immense to fit in a single post.
This is my plea to CCP, who is currently developing "World of Darkness".
DO NOT ADOPT A LINEAR LOOT PROGRESSION MODEL.
or if you do, make it a temporary one, I am aware that to some extent EVE uses linear loot progression, T1, m1-4, T2, faction, and officer.
But the short-term ownership of these modules keeps the game fresh.
I login to EVE today with a renewed respect for the sandbox, Thanks again CCP =) Not sure I understand what you mean by linear loot progression?
And are there alternatives?
I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
938
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Posted - 2013.06.14 22:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr. Orange wrote:What in the sweet fucken baby Jesus is this sh!t thread about?!
its a Tom Thread ... what you said just sums it up nicely ... you new here?
Ed: I like his threads, make me want to watch this more Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2013.06.14 22:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:On the other hand, GW2 originally did not have tiered loot progression, but have since incorporated it. There are plenty of people who enjoy chasing carrots and they are heavily populated in the MMO scene.
I must admit I thought it was a nice touch when WoW actually made a reward item a literal carrot on a stick. Not that most players there would get the irony. |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
113
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Posted - 2013.06.14 23:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:On the other hand, GW2 originally did not have tiered loot progression, but have since incorporated it. There are plenty of people who enjoy chasing carrots and they are heavily populated in the MMO scene. I must admit I thought it was a nice touch when WoW actually made a reward item a literal carrot on a stick. Not that most players there would get the irony. WoW became a joke the moment a player a mere 5 levels above you could ignore your attacks and the one-shot you. |
Jon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.06.15 00:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think CCP should have kept EVE pure, which would have given them a rabid, universally positive, word-of-mouth fanbase on which to launch other more 'unsavory' products.
Who could know. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1119
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 00:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jon Ferguson wrote:I think CCP should have kept EVE pure, which would have given them a rabid, universally positive, word-of-mouth fanbase on which to launch other more 'unsavory' products.
Who could know.
... Pure? and in... before the Americans found out about EVE? One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Lilliana Stelles
766
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 00:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Linear loot progression means probably no thievery or item destruction.
My entire goal for elder scrolls online was to stay in the cities and pickpocket loot off of experienced players while dodging the guards (concord).
Now that I see that I can't play the game in a reasonable way, I'll just stick to EVE and wait for WOD as my next on-foot mmo. Incarna from 2009. 3 Years later and what we have doesn't look half as good as this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 01:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:There has only been a handful of games that have suceeded wtih this model, WoW being one of them.
The list of failed MMOs that use this system is too immense to fit in a single post.
WoW is the #1 MMO, period. It can lose 5 million players and still be #1.
The RNG loot system sucks beyond belief, especially if you want a complete set of tier gear before the next tier patch. But the tier gear system has been popular since the early days of RPGs. If you remember 20 sided dice, the environment fits like a glove.
MMOs fail because if they don't get the atmosphere and mechanics right at the beginning, the players return back to WoW (which in turn incorporates the neat features into it's IP). In order for a game to succeed it has to be different and not try to be another WoW. This is how EvE could exist and thrive within WoW's shadow.
What will kill ESO is Elder Scrolls is a solo RPG and heavy customization available for it (and that's it's beauty). MMOs can't allow that customization due to balancing and violating every EULA known (a modder can make the world exactly what he wants it to be, but he can't share his work due to legal reasons). Want a Coca-Cola and Domino's pizza in your game? Fine mod it, want it in a MMO...banned or even sued. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1772
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Posted - 2013.06.15 02:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Linear loot progression works fine as a system provided there is a bevy of content to linearly progress. Most of the long line of failed games didn't bother thinking about "What comes after release" and left large player bases with absolutely nothing to do. If there is something to grind to, people will grind to it. If two months after release the initial content was anemic and new stuff doesn't seem to be appearing on any future patch notes you may as well shut that **** down.
As an aside: I'm not saying that **** sounds fun or anything. But it is viable. |
Black Dranzer
256
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 02:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
AAA MMO Developer doesn't know their head from their arse
Story at 11 |
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ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1353
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Posted - 2013.06.15 02:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Capt Tenguru10 wrote:Tbh I'm prob leving eve for WoD , eve I boring and has hit it's high points. I'm looking forward to the new CCP vampire in space game. I have some terrible news for you, it wont be in space. You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument! |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
182
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 04:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:Elder Scrolls online just made a promise that will lead them down the road to failure then F2P within a year.
"Linear Loot Progression"
There has only been a handful of games that have suceeded wtih this model, WoW being one of them.
The list of failed MMOs that use this system is too immense to fit in a single post.
This is my plea to CCP, who is currently developing "World of Darkness".
DO NOT ADOPT A LINEAR LOOT PROGRESSION MODEL.
or if you do, make it a temporary one, I am aware that to some extent EVE uses linear loot progression, T1, m1-4, T2, faction, and officer.
But the short-term ownership of these modules keeps the game fresh.
I login to EVE today with a renewed respect for the sandbox, Thanks again CCP =) Not sure I understand what you mean by linear loot progression? And are there alternatives? Oh!
You mean like items always getting more powerful with level, until there is a massive gap between stats/numbers?
That's part of the genre isn't it? The hero from humble beginnings, with a tunic and wooden sword, one day being the mighty warrior who has magical armour and a flaming sword. I think it's just something they do when their games have a simple level system.
It's sort of like how, even today, some games still use a 'lives' system despite it being a holdover from arcade days and used for making more money. Level systems are from things like D&D or JRPGs and games are still trying to evolve from those origins.
It would be interesting to see an mmo where a sword is a sword and it's player skill that defines it's effectiveness, but that's more like an modern fps' multiplayer with short, fast-paced and limited matches rather than a persistent world.
Still, would be nice if someone would try it in an mmo. I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 04:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:It would be interesting to see an mmo where a sword is a sword and it's player skill that defines it's effectiveness, but that's more like an modern fps' multiplayer with short, fast-paced and limited matches rather than a persistent world.
No, it still exists in MUDs. But players want to play with prettier graphics, and it comes at a price -- can't have the customization MUDs offer, since development time and data space is taken up for it.
In a MUD I can craft the sword and armor, take to a trade guild put in a request to name the gear as I chose it to be, add a description and sell it in my own true store. That gear is the best ingame -- drops are inferior -- because to be a master tradeskiller takes 2 years of hard work.
So if anything MMOs are behind what MUDs have long offered (and some of the best combat too....three hour long 1v1 fights are legend). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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C DeLeon
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys HUN Reloaded
142
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Posted - 2013.06.15 06:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think one of the reasons why most wow-wannabe games fail is because of the slow development combined with what Tom Gerard said. Blizzard can maintain a huge developer number and push out new content fast enough to keep the pve grinding crowd interested. Other pve oriented games with linear loot progression and itemization can't keep up with the needs of the players. They can't push out content fast enough, the subsription numbers drops and the game getting hit by a downward spiral. And then the company claims that the future is f2p while the truth is that their game is agonizing.
That's why those games are doomed from the beginning and no difference with Elder Scroll online. I think even wow would go down if it would be released today. Back then it was like any other MMO today but it hadn't much competition so the players sticked with it.
WoD should definitely avoid this if CCP wants it to survive on the long run.
And this is a serious Tom Gerard thread. Who would have thought? :D |
Pacifyn
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.06.15 06:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Elder Scrolls online just made a promise that will lead them down the road to failure then F2P within a year.
TesO is a standard themepark mmo. Of course its going to have linear gear system, not sure what else you were expecting.
That said, wildstar looks more fun than tesO atmo |
Gealbhan
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 07:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Elder Scrolls... isn't that what EvE Online wipes it's arse with? |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
1123
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 11:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gealbhan wrote:Elder Scrolls... isn't that what EvE Online wipes it's arse with?
seems to be all it's good for these days, Quality franchise gets AAA'd squeezed for every drop of profit out of it's fans, then left to die. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
245
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Posted - 2013.06.15 14:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:Mr. Orange wrote:What in the sweet fucken baby Jesus is this sh!t thread about?! its a Tom Thread ... what you said just sums it up nicely ... you new here? Ed: I like his threads, make me want to watch this more
Nah.. I'm not new, I've been around here since 2003...
I just wanted to sh!t post in a sh!t poster's sh!t thread...
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