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black widowx1
Per noctem volamus
3
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Posted - 2013.06.17 23:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is there any particular reason why tempests and even fleet issues are so rare, i never seem them? i'm thinking about buying one but not seeing one around is making me wonder if the duct tape isn't quite strong enough for the wingy bits. But seriously, are they any good for pve level 4s? |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
116
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Posted - 2013.06.17 23:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Most people fly the Maelstrom. Eight guns and bonus to shield boost amount... |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
383
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Posted - 2013.06.17 23:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
tempest and pve dont go very well together. They are however extremely good armour brawlers along with the fleet issue version. |
black widowx1
Per noctem volamus
3
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Posted - 2013.06.17 23:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eh, in that case i might just get a Hyperion then. Cheers |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
100
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Posted - 2013.06.18 08:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tempest is actually pretty good for low sec pve(ratting, annos, plexing), since a pvp fitted nano pest is far harder to catch and gank than a brick tanked maelstrom.
If this doesn't matter to you or you are in highsec, maelstrom is better. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
290
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have fleet pest that I use sometimes for high sec missions. Some missions I fit ac, some missions I fit arti. It works alright. Active armor tank. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
384
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Tempest is actually pretty good for low sec pve(ratting, annos, plexing), since a pvp fitted nano pest is far harder to catch and gank than a brick tanked maelstrom. If this doesn't matter to you or you are in highsec, maelstrom is better. Tsukino Stareine wrote:tempest and pve dont go very well together. They are however extremely good armour brawlers along with the fleet issue version. Wrong on both therms. Edit, to flesh this out a bit: If you play a Tempest like a mach it isn't that bad(a bit slower, less gank, less range and less tank). However 1100+ dps @ 3.6+34km(what translates in around 700-600 dps at 15-28km) is still not bad for a pvp ship with plain T2 fitting that can shoot crosses or squares in low sec with the same fitting. As for armor, the performance of this fittings is bad in solo ac setups since it got very poor dps, tank and range(and the combination of all this 3 things get you utterly murdered against gangs). Any gallente hull or the phoon will beat it at this. You can fly it with artillery for armor fleets, but it is not something special and it takes a faction BS to archive at least some useful compromise between bad tank and bad alpha(this is what the Tempest does as armor artillery platform).
Yeah you can play a tempest like a gimped mach, but why would you want to? Maelstrom outperforms it in every way in pve.
If you shield fit your tempest in pvp you're basically giving the opposition a free battleship kill. Armour tempests still put out good DPS along with it's 2 utility highs and more options for mids. You can even see CCP intended it to be armour tanked since both the regular Tempest and the TFI have more base armour hitpoints than shield. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
276
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Posted - 2013.06.18 21:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:The Djego wrote:Tempest is actually pretty good for low sec pve(ratting, annos, plexing), since a pvp fitted nano pest is far harder to catch and gank than a brick tanked maelstrom. If this doesn't matter to you or you are in highsec, maelstrom is better. Tsukino Stareine wrote:tempest and pve dont go very well together. They are however extremely good armour brawlers along with the fleet issue version. Wrong on both therms. Edit, to flesh this out a bit: If you play a Tempest like a mach it isn't that bad(a bit slower, less gank, less range and less tank). However 1100+ dps @ 3.6+34km(what translates in around 700-600 dps at 15-28km) is still not bad for a pvp ship with plain T2 fitting that can shoot crosses or squares in low sec with the same fitting. As for armor, the performance of this fittings is bad in solo ac setups since it got very poor dps, tank and range(and the combination of all this 3 things get you utterly murdered against gangs). Any gallente hull or the phoon will beat it at this. You can fly it with artillery for armor fleets, but it is not something special and it takes a faction BS to archive at least some useful compromise between bad tank and bad alpha(this is what the Tempest does as armor artillery platform). Yeah you can play a tempest like a gimped mach, but why would you want to? Maelstrom outperforms it in every way in pve. If you shield fit your tempest in pvp you're basically giving the opposition a free battleship kill. Armour tempests still put out good DPS along with it's 2 utility highs and more options for mids. You can even see CCP intended it to be armour tanked since both the regular Tempest and the TFI have more base armour hitpoints than shield.
Nano-pests are a wonderful PvP machine. Its one of my favorite hulls, like a 70k eHP Hurricane with heavy neuts.
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
102
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Posted - 2013.06.19 13:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Yeah you can play a tempest like a gimped mach, but why would you want to? Maelstrom outperforms it in every way in pve.
If you shield fit your tempest in pvp you're basically giving the opposition a free battleship kill. Armour tempests still put out good DPS along with it's 2 utility highs and more options for mids. You can even see CCP intended it to be armour tanked since both the regular Tempest and the TFI have more base armour hitpoints than shield.
Because a gimped mach is still miles better than flying a armor tanked hurricane with another 12km neut range(the pest is not much more if you armor tank it). The pest even outganks the maelstrom for most annos/plexes, because it can adjust ranges quick and having a mobile pvp ship instead of a tanked brick is a very sensible idea for people that don't relay on pure blue locals or high sec and don't want to pos/cloak up once somebody comes out to play.
As for free BS kills, I still think it funny that even so many years after the projectile buff nobody takes a nano tempest serious. Feel free to look at some of my KMs I used the nano pest a lot.
A armor pest does bad dps, got poor range and poor tank/ehp. Literally every other BS can do better for brawling and it even got pushed further down the pile with the odyssey changes to the other BS. Blaster ships gank and tank harder now(hype tanks twice at much while outganking the armor pest at any range), domis got a useful bonus they actually can use in pvp, phoon was the better option and is the far better option now, raven got a massive speed and CM buff and the new apoc nearly as fast as the pest before the changes(navy apoc even feels a bit faster than the old pest) while sporting twice the range, not as falloff but optimal(a ******* 91km optimal a very fast BS).
CCP did swap around armor and shield with the projectile buff that made the shield pest good, on requests of so many people that don't know how to fly the hull. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Austin McLaren
Addicts Anonymous
17
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
In fact a pve Tempest fit with Artys, Mwd and shield buffer is a quite excellent level 4 runner. |
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
390
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Posted - 2013.06.19 17:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Yeah you can play a tempest like a gimped mach, but why would you want to? Maelstrom outperforms it in every way in pve.
If you shield fit your tempest in pvp you're basically giving the opposition a free battleship kill. Armour tempests still put out good DPS along with it's 2 utility highs and more options for mids. You can even see CCP intended it to be armour tanked since both the regular Tempest and the TFI have more base armour hitpoints than shield.
Because a gimped mach is still miles better than flying a armor tanked hurricane with another 12km neut range(the pest is not much more if you armor tank it). The pest even outganks the maelstrom for most annos/plexes, because it can adjust ranges quick and having a mobile pvp ship instead of a tanked brick is a very sensible idea for people that don't relay on pure blue locals or high sec and don't want to pos/cloak up once somebody comes out to play. As for free BS kills, I still think it funny that even so many years after the projectile buff nobody takes a nano tempest serious. Feel free to look at some of my KMs I used the nano pest a lot. A armor pest does bad dps, got poor range and poor tank/ehp. Literally every other BS can do better for brawling and it even got pushed further down the pile with the odyssey changes to the other BS. Blaster ships gank and tank harder now(hype tanks twice at much while outganking the armor pest at any range), domis got a useful bonus they actually can use in pvp, phoon was the better option and is the far better option now, raven got a massive speed and CM buff and the new apoc is nearly as fast as the pest before the changes(navy apoc even feels a bit faster than the old pest) while sporting ungodly effective tracking values and twice the range, not as falloff but optimal(like 91km optimal a very fast BS). CCP did swap around armor and shield with the projectile buff that made the shield pest good, on requests of so many people that don't know how to fly the hull.
Not sure how you are fitting your tempests but you've clearly never tried armour before.
Being typically minmatar, it has a small base sig radius which is actually smaller than large gun resolution (360m) which means you can sig tank in an armour tempest to a degree.
Armour tempests are also much more versatile than shield due to options in the mid slots. For example:
1. Does 48 less DPS than a failfit (4 gyro) shield tempest but to 10km more falloff meaning it's applied damage is better and can also switch to tracking speed scripts if needed. TE nerf hurt all shield-based turret setups since TC was not touched. 2. Can use mids for utility like webs, resebos, re-eccms, etc. 3. Can use mids for a cap booster to provide some cap independence, not every fleet will involve logi donating cap for your neuts. 4. Can drop some damage for more tank: something the shield tempest cannot do. 5. Not sure where you pulled the "poor ehp" from but it's certainly not even close to true, there's about a 2k ehp difference between a 3 slot tank on both setups. 6. No idea why you're bringing gallente ships into this, are you actually going to do apples and oranges?
So really the only thing that the shield tempest has over the armour is 150m/s higher mwd speed. Whoopde-*******-do
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
102
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think you are missing my point.I talk about using a fully pvp fitted Tempest solo for pve in a environment where you got shoot by other pvp fitted ships is not something special but daily business.
Your armor tempest will die in this scenario, similar to a maelstrom. It is not a good pve ship because of super high dps or range, it is a good pve ship because you can do pve still efficient in a pvp fitting, what different to your 3 slot armor pest will not die against the first pvp fitted BC you meet in low sec.
If you can't imagine why another 150m/s might be very important(this is basically nearly your full speed advantage compared to other attack BS this days), than by all means fly a tempest and see how it works out once you run into nano drakes, canes, ABCs or even other attack BS.
- you don't need webs, if you are in web/scram range you did it wrong and you will be dead no matter if you fly a armor or shield fitting - you don't need sensor boosters, you can lock a target coming your way just fine - you don't need a ECCM since you are screwed against ECM if you are solo, no matter how many mods you fit - you don't even fit a cap booster because you need any point of buffer you can get and you don't relay on cap transfer since you are not in a blob, you are mostly solo or small gang
Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
398
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Posted - 2013.06.21 02:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
So you're talking about some hypothetical situation that you should never find yourself in.
Ok |
Moon Mare Night
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:So you're talking about some hypothetical situation that you should never find yourself in.
Ok
You didn't check his KM's did you? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
429
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Posted - 2013.06.21 18:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:tempest dont go very well ALLtogether. They are however extremely good armour brawlers along with the fleet issue version.
Fixed it for you. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
103
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Posted - 2013.06.21 18:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
For a player that stays in save space or is somewhere deep in 0.0 where you have to make 20 jumps before you see something not blue in local probably 100% hypothetical, but keep in mind not everybody does this and some players actually play under constant pvp conditions and rather chose a fitting for pve what can be quite competitive in pvp instead of getting caught with her pants down when you end up in pvp with it(every time I lost a pest during pve or pvp, was just my fault, getting to greedy to get one more KM out of the people trying to gank me). Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Xander Det89
ROC Academy The ROC
5
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Posted - 2013.06.22 08:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Djego wrote:If you play a Tempest like a mach it isn't that bad(a bit slower, less gank, less range and less tank). However 1100+ dps @ 3.6+34km(what translates in around 700-600 dps at 15-28km) is still not bad for a pvp ship with plain T2 fitting that can shoot crosses or squares in low sec with the same fitting.
Seen your record with this, only seem to lose when you get ganked. Fair for solo, anyway, just wondering where 1100 dps comes from? Using your fit I barely scrape 740 (before drones, and I notice you use ECM drones a lot anyway) on EFT, also, you get more EHP from a second invuln over an extender plus is it worth covering the EM gap with one of the rigs when being a target in Angels space seeing as attackers will probably target that gap? |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
103
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Posted - 2013.06.22 09:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
The 1100+ DPS are on a setup with 3 gyros, small drones, +5% imps, meta 4 CMs and T2 rof rig. I generally preferred this one for knocking down some annos quickly or if you need some serious dps for BS heavy engagements. The 2 gyro with nos/neut was more the thing I flown if you are a bit away from home or really expect some people showing up, being a bit on the save side with the speed and the nos/neut combo against tacklers and to cripple BCs at point range.
I played around a bit with dual invu setups. You get out a little more EHP with them, but you can space out the active mods better with 2 extenders, what means you can overload the point, mwd and single invu longer, what can make a huge difference. It also saves some cap, what is a nice bonus.
As for the EM hole, it is not that problematic, ships that can deal a lot EM damage at high range(amarr BS) are slow, so they can't force the engagement range. Torp BS got a low range(the CM buff might be a bit problematic here) and most missile ships use kinetic missiles. Your worst enemy is probably something like a nano Oracle(that got a lot less tank) or another nano pest/mach that uses EMP ammo. For pve in angel space only a few high end BS or missile batteries do em/thermal damage and can be knocked down from range with barrage before they become a issue. In general angels are fairly easy to tank, since most of her dps is on close range BS that do next to no damage beyond 20km. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Xander Det89
ROC Academy The ROC
5
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Posted - 2013.06.22 13:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Well guess you got every point :P, glad to see the Tempest is working out well then. Would you say it still needs some love though, or that the apparent failings are just how it looks on paper in terms of numbers? |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
105
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Posted - 2013.06.22 20:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well I mostly used it during the time after the projectile changes and the time before ABCs got introduced. If the Tempest is in a good or bad state is always kind of hard to tell, since the ship isn't really well focused to a particular role and mostly scales with modules(like TEs, neuts, nos, ecm), the current metagame(where it did pretty good against nano BCs) and can be good or bad rather by module changes instead of ship changes.
However with the odyssey BS changes, the CM changes, the TE change and what will be done with nos I think the Tempest currently is in a state where the lack of focus makes it kind of jack of all trades, without doing a thing particular well. It isn't a bad ship by all means, but the new mega and hype tank a lot harder, deal better damage and can hit further(hype basically got a upgrade from electron to neutron blasters). The Phoon and Raven are now very effective at medium range with CM and the also quite fast. Even the new Apoc got a lot quicker and combines excellent tracking with huge ranges.
I and Pattern did a few concepts for a possible tempest change, I think you will find them in the Minmatar BS balance thread, it basically came down to a 7/5/7 pest with a slightly higher damage bonus to dish out ok alpha with armor tanks for artillery fleets or a 7/6/6 Tempest buffing the rof bonus and changing the damage one for falloff one, making it a bit more flexible in the nano AC BS role.
The current tempest is a bit more agile and faster(about 120m/s more with my implants, taking it to around 1370+ m/s and close to 2km/s with heat) but it will for the time being not change focus(as Rise stated he will look into it later on if he feels it isn't up to par). So I guess we have to wait and see. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
372
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Posted - 2013.06.23 03:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Simple reasons Tempest is garbage for pve compared to Maelstrom and Maelstrom is established in pvp too..and here is mostly why...it have dual dmg bonus that flat out fail to have any dps advantage over maelstrom single dmg bonus.!
That make maelstrom better dmg boat better alpha platform and better drone boat too oh and it have tank to boot Tempest don't have any of above.
in pvp it selling point was "disposable garbage" that can fit 2 neuts and be somewhat nimble moving around..and now there are other ships that have actual bonus to neuts and or better tank/dps !
Tempest fleet issue is much of a same it fail horribly to match 3x times cheaper maelstrom in PVE and on a PAPER it rly looks ok for pvp only thing we need is to be mildly idiotic to burn 500 mil per hull(fittings excluded) every time you die in ultimately mediocre ship.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Xander Det89
ROC Academy The ROC
5
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Posted - 2013.06.23 16:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah I made similar suggestions to you then on the Oddysey thread, and I would agree it's not terribad. It just has the issue of being a certain % worse than it's competitors when fitted for any given role, which hopefully will reduce it's use and give CCP reason to show it some true attention. |
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