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Pros and cons of each covops frig

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Hakaimono Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly 161	Posted - 2013.06.19 19:30:00 - [1] - Quote What are the strengths and weaknesses of each covops frig and how they compare to each other? Strictly in the role of low/null exploration and running data/relic sites. Currently I use a Cheetah and I'm fairly pleased with it, but I'm curious as to what the others have to offer.
Tumahub Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 373	Posted - 2013.06.19 19:52:00 - [2] - Quote Cheetah: +Fast -Mids Buzzard: +Mids -Derp Helios: +Mids -Highs Anathema: +Cheap -Mids If you care about probe strength above all else: Buzzard > Helios > Anathema = Cheetah. If you want the safest get-around from site to site: Cheetah > *
DeAira Skord Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 20:41:00 - [3] - Quote Due to my low SP, I found the Cheetah hard to fit due to the low powergrid. The MWD takes a big hit.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 117	Posted - 2013.06.19 21:05:00 - [4] - Quote Helios is the best pure sanning frig, given you need max mobility from the lows. Buzzard is the best exploration frig. (3 hislots) Also a decent scanboat. One of your lows will always be a power core. Cheetah is meh. It isn't really good at scanning, it's above average speed, but whatever. Anathema is the hero-tackle covops, with best tank and slotlayout allwoing you to fit ab/MSE/web+scram and a rocket launcher. So in a pvp-environment, helios is for scanning, anathema is for tackling. If you run one of the others , you're doing it wrong. (
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 2022	Posted - 2013.06.19 23:31:00 - [5] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Helios is the best pure sanning frig, given you need max mobility from the lows. Buzzard is the best exploration frig. (3 hislots) Also a decent scanboat. One of your lows will always be a power core. Cheetah is meh. It isn't really good at scanning, it's above average speed, but whatever. Anathema is the hero-tackle covops, with best tank and slotlayout allwoing you to fit ab/MSE/web+scram and a rocket launcher. So in a pvp-environment, helios is for scanning, anathema is for tackling. If you run one of the others , you're doing it wrong. ( oh you.... op, this info is extremely incorrect. best scanner by far is the cheetah because it's the fastest and most agile, smallest sig. it is also the best tackle covops cos you can tank it, nano it, fit a gun. highest scan res too for tackle. it also has biggest cargo which is relevant as you can fit larger bubbles to deploy from it. buzzard is close behind it. it's slower and can't fit dual nanos but you can fit a web in the extra mid. it's my personal go to covops for all around quality. being able to fit a gun, scram, web, shield booster and web means youre never losing a 1v1 covops fight, and they DO come up if youre doing it right. it's definitely not as good as a cheetah at getting out of bubble camps but i have yet to lose one to a camp. then comes anethema... it's not THAT bad but it's lol slow. for tackling? sure...i guess, but it doesnt tank any better than any other covops. yeah, it's pretty bad. it's basically the fat, not too bright cousin of the other covops that goes around wishing fitting a 400mm plate was in any way useful on a covops. helios is ok but the lack of a 3rd high slot makes it a no go. it's the 2nd fastest and actually slightly (very slightly) more agile than a cheetah but it doesnt do anything better than a cheetah so there's zero reason to use it over one at the cost of a high slot.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 392	Posted - 2013.06.20 00:21:00 - [6] - Quote what would you put in the 3rd high for exploration I know for a pvp scout the helios lacks but in exploration it's really not that bad
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1458	Posted - 2013.06.20 01:11:00 - [7] - Quote While I often agree with Jack, I have to disagree on these. Post odyssey I find the cheetah the most annoying as a pure scanner. Due to its low fitting you cannot jam on a MWD, expanded launcher and one of each of the new scan modules. Now they may not be necessary, but they are handy to use. In a hero tackling role a Helios can fit one of each scan mod, mwd, expanded probe launcher and a point. You do need a cheap pg implant for all of that but you have the slots. The only time I'd see the lack of high on the Helios as a detriment is if you needed a cyno.
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 252	Posted - 2013.06.20 01:32:00 - [8] - Quote I really like my covops to have a utility high for a weapon for taking out other covops and defenseless ships like haulers. I only use the Cheetah and Buzzard, never used the Helios or Anathema before because I don't see any reason to use them, Helios's one drone isn't as effective as a highslot weapon, and if I want a 5 mid slot covops I use the Buzzard. As for the Anathema, all it really has going for it is good capacitor, even with 3 nanos it's slower and less agile than a Cheetah with 2 nanos, other than that it's slot layout is identical to the Cheetahs but the autocannon is better, Cheetah gets more cargo, the only thing Cheetah is worse off is it's capacitor. Honestly the differences aren't that huge between the covops (except the Helios lacking an extra high), some extra dps here, couple extra scan strength points, a couple tenths of a second in align time there, in the end they can all do their job well enough.
I Accidentally YourShip My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom 182	Posted - 2013.06.20 01:42:00 - [9] - Quote You are all forgetting the most important detail. The Anathema is sexy, which makes it the number one choice for covops, the ship that you never see all day.
Hakaimono Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly 161	Posted - 2013.06.20 01:55:00 - [10] - Quote Helpful tips here. I might actually consider switching to a Buzzard for that extra mid, but I really do enjoy the manuverability of the Cheetah. If I feel safe enough with the Cheetah in avoiding trouble, I'll give the Buzzard a try.

Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1458	Posted - 2013.06.20 01:58:00 - [11] - Quote Dato Koppla wrote: Helios's one drone isn't as effective as a highslot weapon Really... You should check your numbers. I have a Helios fit that can do the same DPS with a single drone as a cheetah with a 200mm AC2 and Hail. I dont need ammo. I don't need a Micro aux Power core in order to jam the gun and a meta MWD onto the ship. And I can jam in not only a scram, but a web, scan aquisition array, scan rangefinding array, and a drone damage amp. Yea I need a cheap CPU implant, but I tend to need one for several fits anyhow. Yea I don't miss the high slot.
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 252	Posted - 2013.06.20 02:04:00 - [12] - Quote Yeah with a DDA it does the same as dps as a Cheetah but then you lose out on mobility and the Cheetah will have a faster speed and faster align time. Bringing ammo isn't really a concern because what else is taking up space in your covops cargohold? Yes you lose out on the web/extra mid slot but as I said in my post, in the end the differences are minute and all the covops can do their jobs well with little differences between the fits.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 2022	Posted - 2013.06.20 02:10:00 - [13] - Quote Ok, for the record: if your covops cant kill another solo covops, YOU ARE FITTING IT WRONG. PS: a helios can never, ever kill another covops because any covops can kill your drone way faster than it will kill them.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1458	Posted - 2013.06.20 02:32:00 - [14] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Ok, for the record: if your covops cant kill another solo covops, YOU ARE FITTING IT WRONG. PS: a helios can never, ever kill another covops because any covops can kill your drone way faster than it will kill them. I guess if you are talking that kind of fight. I generally care more whether my covert ops can combat scan and warp in for hero tackle than go up against another covert ops. In that regard having the scram web plus scan mods means I have the tackle and that little extra to get a combat lock a probe tick higher than otherwise. to each his own. Best option is just to be able to fly more than one then you don't have to worry about which one is best for a given situation.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 117	Posted - 2013.06.20 14:25:00 - [15] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: best scanner by far is the cheetah because it's the fastest and most agile, smallest sig. it is also the best tackle covops cos you can tank it, nano it, fit a gun. highest scan res too for tackle. it also has biggest cargo which is relevant as you can fit larger bubbles to deploy from it. Wow, didn't know that your ability to scan is improved with less midslots and higher maneuvrability. Also, to my knowledge covops are .- if fit for tackle - fitting web+scram. So I guess that note about the cheetahs covop-on-covop-capabilities was a joke. Jack Miton wrote: buzzard is close behind it. it's slower and can't fit dual nanos but you can fit a web in the extra mid. it's my personal go to covops for all around quality. being able to fit a gun, scram, web, shield booster and web means youre never losing a 1v1 covops fight, and they DO come up if youre doing it right. it's definitely not as good as a cheetah at getting out of bubble camps but i have yet to lose one to a camp. I'm not a fan of ranking this ship ahead of the helios. Especially mentioning bubblecamps, helios ofc goes first. And that launcher... so you got 2 APCs in your lows I guess.
erg cz Sliperer 8	Posted - 2013.06.20 14:56:00 - [16] - Quote Hakaimono wrote: Strictly in the role of low/null exploration and running data/relic sites. Sometimes it seems to me, that local guru are so much PvP oriented, that they lost ability to read properly. What good are all those "tackle" , "cyno", "web" and other nice PvP toys if OP was strickly about EXPLORATION in non-combat data / relict sites? I think, that with nice new ewxploration toys you can put into mid slots, Helios and Buzzard clearly outperform other two in sense of exploration abilities. And bigger speed + one extra low slot for nano gives Helios bigger chance to get all scattering loot from the hacked can. So I think, that for " role of low/null exploration and running data/relic sites" Helios with installed Scan Rangefinding Array is better, then any other exploration frigate. [Helios, Helios] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II 1MN Afterburner II Relic Analyzer II Data Analyzer II Scan Acquisition Array II Scan Rangefinding Array II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Hakaimono Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly 161	Posted - 2013.06.20 15:04:00 - [17] - Quote The thing about my fits is that I include a Salvager because on occasion I run into abandoned wrecks that I check for the hell of it. Would a single salvage drone perform well at all? If so, then the Helios would be my choice because of the three lows and five mids.
Kosomot Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.06.20 16:07:00 - [18] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: [quote=Dato Koppla]Helios's one drone isn't as effective as a highslot weapon The Helios is my personal choice for Exploration. The drone compensate for lack of highs (assuming skills of course), with my drone skills, a hobo 2 is nice in the slot. I must say that if i was using an exploration ship for exploring then yeah (i fly tengu fitted for scanning, due to my love of combat sites). but if i decide to go on a relic / data exploration question...helios wins for me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dirty Times!!
Trinkets friend T.R.I.A.D 1034	Posted - 2013.06.20 23:06:00 - [19] - Quote I have always used a Cheetah because of...well, it was just what I trained into first. The Cheetah can struggle against a properly MASB and rocket fit Anathema, and I have had problems with shooting Helios' who have max drone skills (like, a 2003 toon) though it was a very good 30 minute long fight. And no, you cannot easily kill the drone every time. Buzzards, I almost never see them fit properly for PVP and hence, have always won. Properly fit (AB, scram, gun) the Cheetah of Doom is a deadly hero tackler. Dozens of Tengus have died to a ballsy Cheetah grabbing hold of them at the proper time and hanging on for dear life until the loot collecting pinata hunters arrive. I would draw the line at tackling cruisers, unless it's a Stabber. Likewise, you can tackle the attack BC's, and I've done Drakes only when the backup is already in warp. You can also kill stealth bombers. Though sometimes EVE seems to think that your sig radius (37m) is ten times the size it really is, and you instagib, and some idiot in CCP tells you there's no issue because he doesn't realise you do this every week and never instagib from bombers except this one time. But that's just a pet gripe of mine. For shooting frigates (eg, lurking FW smalls for AFK-camping alts to gank), you don't want a Cheetah. The helios is the choice du jour. Non probe fit, the Helios gets the most useful slot layout to actually make a difference - and you fit a neutron blaster or rail gun to it for extra DPS. Double web, or web-TD, and plenty of spares for AB, scram, etc. Though a double-web MASB Buzzard is also pretty beastly. Indigently pwning indifferently. Some sucker buy me a Naglfar. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 2029	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:26:00 - [20] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: And that launcher... so you got 2 APCs in your lows I guess. you fit a gun, not a launcher. lows are APC and a nano. obviously.

Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 908	Posted - 2013.06.21 14:19:00 - [21] - Quote Kosomot wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: [quote=Dato Koppla]Helios's one drone isn't as effective as a highslot weapon The Helios is my personal choice for Exploration. The drone compensate for lack of highs (assuming skills of course), with my drone skills, a hobo 2 is nice in the slot. I must say that if i was using an exploration ship for exploring then yeah (i fly tengu fitted for scanning, due to my love of combat sites). but if i decide to go on a relic / data exploration question...helios wins for me. Indeed Tengu can run these combat sites pretty well too while exploration fitted but the nastier is still Loki. An exploration Loki can easily fit an XL-ASB, Probe Launcher, Cov Ops Cloak largest tier autos, Web disruptor or scram, shield modules dmg modules and dish a well over 400dps which is enough coupled to its massive tank to gank almost every other exploration T3 unless specifically fitted counter (which never happens or simply by chance) removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Clara Xavier Orion's Fist Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2013.06.28 14:34:00 - [22] - Quote Has there been any discussion in scaling the CPU requirements for a probe launcher against the Covert Ops skill or just give the hulls a -99% role bonus? I find that anytime you attempt to use an Expanded Probe Launcher even on a Covert Ops ship you basically sacrifice even trying to fill your other slots without using your lows for Co-Processors. While that will work it kind of defeats the purpose. One of the major uses of a Covert Ops ship would be probing. You should be able to fit the ship to take full advantage of that feature without sacrificing all the other slots made available to you. Take a look at how the T3 works when configured as a covert ops cloak + scanning boat. It has the bonuses I'm describing. Summary: Make the covert ops ships sensible to fit for their purpose. Example: Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Role Bonus: 100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Subsystem Skill Bonus: 10% scan strength, 20% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams Role Bonus: -99% reduced CPU need for Scan Probe Launchers, +10 Virus Strenght to Relic and Data Analyzers


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