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Astaroth
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Posted - 2003.08.11 11:20:00 -
[1]
And yes i know the battleship bonus is bugged on lvl2 ships but still... a friend of mine just killed a megathron with a dominix in a pure damage match, and on top of that the mega costs about twice the amount of dominix its like a thorax getting owned by a exequror.
And large guns are inferior to medium.
I know u wanna balance stuff but havin a ship cost that much and still be inferior to ships half the prize is just plain stupid.
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.08.11 12:13:00 -
[2]
The Raven/Scorpion balance is even more hilarious, especially with missiles being nothing more the slow ans weak moneysinks.
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soonÖ |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.11 13:30:00 -
[3]
*sighs*
I wish I could participate here, but alas, noone has been kind* enough to lend me a BS..
*stupid
The fights you discuss; do you know the loadouts involved?
.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.11 13:54:00 -
[4]
It's cre you're speaking about, right? 
It's true, though, that generally the lvl2 BS are somewhat inferior to lvl1 ones. They have slightly better armor and shield stats and a more or less significant bonus to the powercore, but less slots, especially low slots, which pretty much negates the armor/shield/powercore bonus imo.
CCP was aksed about the..differences between lvl1 and lvl2 bs some time ago and have replied that "they want to make the several BS unique to each other, like the firgates".
I cannot really follow them there I'm afraid.
free speech not allowed here |
Caillech
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Posted - 2003.08.11 14:23:00 -
[5]
making Battleships more unique like frigs would work alot better if we had more than 2 battleships to chose from ... frigs is like twice the ammount .... this doesnt seem very ... fair ..or whatever
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Caillech
Director of Sexual Healing
2003.08.22 16:18:53 -----
Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Small Secure Container, wrecking for 1102.9 damage
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.08.11 16:24:00 -
[6]
there is 2 important factors to battelships, 1. the pilot and 2. equipment the pilot have experience AND skills, and with the proper equipment tips the balance. so dont just look at the specs.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Bashar
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Posted - 2003.08.11 16:36:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Bashar on 11/08/2003 16:38:00
So raven let me see if i got this right...your saying for the level 2 battleship to "tip the balance", all the level 2 ship needs is a better pilot and better gear?  Sounds great...as long as level I pilots promise to quit training skills and equiping top notch gear to give the poor level 2 ships a chance...
regards,
Bashar Miles Teg
Shop Smart, Shop BasharMart! |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.11 16:45:00 -
[8]
But since we talk about the balance between lvl1 and 2 BS we can pretty much neglect the pilots and skills. They ARE important for sure, actually more important than the BS you fly. But since both lvl1 and lvl2 can have good, highly trained pilots...
Equipment in an important factor - and there the lvl2 bs are actually worse than the lvl1 - most lvl2 have less total slots than lvl1 bs.
free speech not allowed here |
Memento Mori
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Posted - 2003.08.11 17:30:00 -
[9]
I think that the lvl 1 bs ships are more specilised than lvl2, like Armagedon vrs Apoc, the armagedon can deal much mor damige over shorter time, but the apoc can do loads of stuff that the armagedon cant do.
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Astaroth
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Posted - 2003.08.11 17:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Astaroth on 11/08/2003 17:46:03
so by paying almost double the price of lvl1 u can do "loads" of stuff and only drawback is being killed by a passing lvl1 battleship ?
ah did i get u right ?
oh and with the 5 med slots the dominix is actually far more versatile than the megathron.
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.11 19:01:00 -
[11]
For many of the lvl 2 Battleships one of the few advantages is that there is often more turret high points than you will find on the lvl 1 ships.
With the reported state of missiles, this could be a major advantage, also while you have some spare time, you can also use more miner lasers :)
At the end of the day, it still seems to be a case that whatever ship level you want, it still seems best to purchase an Amarr BS over any other.
Relic
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.11 19:29:00 -
[12]
Not neccessarily. Ther scorpion is a very powerful ecm ship, and the dominix doesn't need to hide behind the amrageddon.
free speech not allowed here |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.08.11 19:47:00 -
[13]
we need to hear what the load outs on the two ships were. Just looking at the stats the mega has: 550 more structure, 275 more armor, 475 more shield, 2 more high slots, 1 more turret, 2 missile bays the dom doesn't have, 2000 more power, 500 more cap, 2.5k more range and an other point of sensors.
Just because one friend beat another doesn't make the 2 ships not balanced. It's hard to make judgements about balance without knowing what modules they both were using. I can't see how an extra large gun, a missile launcher and 1300 more hit points can lose in a straight up pure damage duel. Don't tell me one extra magnetic stabilizer is better than all that? Have your friends switch ships and duel again. Have them duel each other 5 times maybe. There are random elements involved in the damage calculations.
And no, just paying more for your ship should not mean you win against anyone with a cheaper ship. That's a hard one to learn but people in expensive cars get spanked daily by people with cheaper ones. Did you ever think maybe the Megathron has leather seats???
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.08.11 20:11:00 -
[14]
I think the Raven should get more low slots, slightly more HP. Then it would be a worthy upgrade.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.08.11 20:42:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 11/08/2003 20:54:56
it's true lv2 BS has more turret hp, however think about cpu... let me talk about 4 BS I know:
Apocalypse/Armageddon both has 450 base CPU which is obviously not enough even with electronic 5, so you MUST fit 1 low slot with CPU enhancer, on armageddon, which has 8 low, it's not a big deal, but apocalypse which only has 6 low..... apocalypse lose 2 low slots for only 1 extra med slot, 1 more turret hp which is most likely won't be used to fit turret anyway.....plus Armageddon has 2500 drone bay while apoc has only 1500, so armageddon can handle 10 heavy drones, and apoc can only has 6. apoc will lose to arma no doubt..
Megathorn/Dominix: mega has 450 while dom has 600, dom doesn't need waste any low slot for cpu enhancer while mega has the same issue as apoc. mega lose both med/low to dom in exchange of 2 more high slots with 1 extra turret hp, and mega need waste 1 more low slot to cpu enhancer which makes thing worse.
conclusion: lv1 BS is superior than lv2 atm. I have complete amarr ships collection, and I prefer to use my armageddon instead of apocalypse.....
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.08.11 21:03:00 -
[16]
Exactly.
Effeciently the Domi has 2 low slots more than the mega. Thats 2 damage mods more.
One of the more common rare drops is a linear flux stabiliser 2, which gives 8.4% damage and 9% rof bonus each.
2 of these give a ship the ability to deal 42% more damage in the same time.
Not the mega has one gun more (7 instead 6) - that's 17% more damage.
So, the Domi can deal more damage in spite of 1 possible gun less. Of cource, the mega has more grid and cap, allowing it to mount bigger guns. But the large guns are atm not really a lot better than the medium ones.
free speech not allowed here |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2003.08.12 06:13:00 -
[17]
Gall are the hybrid blaster race, yet u can not even fit their best bship currently, with 7 of their lowest power turrets.. Ion/2000grid.
Gall are the drone race, yet their best bship, has the same size dronebay as a tier 1 amarr ship. ?
CPU is way inadequate. You are FORCED to use a cpu, if u want to equip anything near full combat effectiveness, that, along with the gimpy grid requiring a pds/rcu leaves u with 4 slots for dmg mods.
The mega just has no one specific thing about it that is better then any other race. amarr have their powercore, caldari have enough med slots that a scorp will wtfpwn any ship 1v1.
I traded in my dom for a mega, and, to be honest, I wasted my isks.
And NO I don't think the mega should get a bigger core, cpu, dronebay, and slots all at once..... but it needs a lil dev luvin to be sure.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Rising Sin
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Posted - 2003.08.12 06:29:00 -
[18]
I can vouch for the Typhoon vs. the Tempest, too. The tempest may have 2 more turret slots, but with 200 less CPU and 2 less low slots, and far less drone space, the Tempest can at best rival the Typhoon - which doesn't make sense, considering it's at at least 20-50mil more, depending on where you buy.
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"If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
Pyrotesea
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Posted - 2003.08.12 07:39:00 -
[19]
Just Glad I got a Scorp
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What doesn't kill you makes you injured.
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.08.12 07:56:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 12/08/2003 07:56:22
The danger with threads like this is that Dev's in all their divine inspiration  will prolly just nerf down lvl1 battleships, take away slots and CPU 
Then people will find out that cruisers own lvl1 battleships so the cruisers will get nerfed. 
In the end will all fly shuttles, then they will get nerfed too just for the good measure.
So message to devs: lvl2 battleships need some love, nothing needs to be nerfed.
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2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
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Imperil
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Posted - 2003.08.12 09:04:00 -
[21]
give megathron more cpu, the low slots make all the difference for dominix and armageddon and dominix have tons of cpu meaning it never needs to sacrifice a low slot for a processor, apocalypse or megathron cant pack as much heat since they have to sacrifice their low slots, the might be able to fit more large guns, but not really cause the cpu restricts them from it, and large guns are not that much better than prototype medium overall, I dont know about minmatar BS or caldari BS, but to make lvl two amarr and gallente battleships able to stand up to lvl 1 ships they need more cpu, megathron is totally inferior compared to amarr ships only drone bay and ships skill bonus is in its favour, give it 550cpu, give apocalypse 500cpu, and it would be more even. there isnt much specialty about amarr and gallente battleships, they are turret ships more or less, the dominix is by far the most versitile, though drone bay is of minor importance.
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Imperil
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Posted - 2003.08.12 09:06:00 -
[22]
give megathron more cpu, the low slots make all the difference for dominix and armageddon and dominix have tons of cpu meaning it never needs to sacrifice a low slot for a processor, apocalypse or megathron cant pack as much heat since they have to sacrifice their low slots, the might be able to fit more large guns, but not really cause the cpu restricts them from it, and large guns are not that much better than prototype medium overall, I dont know about minmatar BS or caldari BS, but to make lvl two amarr and gallente battleships able to stand up to lvl 1 ships they need more cpu, megathron is totally inferior compared to amarr ships only drone bay and ships skill bonus is in its favour, give it 550cpu, give apocalypse 500cpu, and it would be more even. there isnt much specialty about amarr and gallente battleships, they are turret ships more or less, the dominix is by far the most versitile, though drone bay is of minor importance.
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illuminati
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Posted - 2003.08.12 10:54:00 -
[23]
I agree with this thread, I dont really know why I went from Armageddon to Apocalypse.
1-2 lowslots NEED to go to cpu.
The shield/armor/hull is only marginally better for Apoc, nearly twice as expensive.
The only big difference is the cap for me and that wont matter much if the Arma can whip out 10% more damage due to lowslots.
So more highslots with crappy cpu and marginally better powergrid.
All lvl 2 BS should have more lowslots than the level 1 one.
It's obviously the mid and lowslots that hurt the most in PvP anyway.
Also the large weapons AARRRR SUCK FFS.
I can do about the same damage with regular heavy beams as with the awesome wow-wow mega beams.
If the cap useage is TWICE as much, at least make the DAMAGE double too ARRRR.
Sorry, got a bit carried away...
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Entity
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Posted - 2003.08.12 11:41:00 -
[24]
Megathron definitely needs some love.
It would be good if the Gallente Battleship Skill actually gave the bonus listed in its attributes (GBCPUBONUS), but it doesn't.
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annoing
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:17:00 -
[25]
 Quote:
Also the large weapons AARRRR SUCK FFS.
I can do about the same damage with regular heavy beams as with the awesome wow-wow mega beams.
If the cap useage is TWICE as much, at least make the DAMAGE double too ARRRR.
Sorry, got a bit carried away...
Depends on your skills and how many damage mods you can use.
6 low slots on an arma, thats 1 cpu enhancer, 4 damage mods and i would use a type D intertial stabilzer for the extra cargo, movement and structure bonus's. If i had a photonic Cpu i would use 5 dmage mods. 7 Mega beams fitted with radio crystals will do serious damage at 65km+. No hvy beams (modded either) can match that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Inquisition
Long live the Inquisition
Long live the Emperor
Long live Amarr!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:06:00 -
[26]
How many fights have you been in that are at 65km?
Point is most fighting (pvp) is around 20km or less.
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Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:21:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Gall are the hybrid blaster race, yet u can not even fit their best bship currently, with 7 of their lowest power turrets.. Ion/2000grid.
Gall are the drone race, yet their best bship, has the same size dronebay as a tier 1 amarr ship. ?
CPU is way inadequate. You are FORCED to use a cpu, if u want to equip anything near full combat effectiveness, that, along with the gimpy grid requiring a pds/rcu leaves u with 4 slots for dmg mods.
<SNIP>
Well, for Gall, if you want hybrid gun damage grab the mega, for drones grab the Dom.
As for CPU, I have 750 CPU on my Dom with out any items. I trained my skills up to level 5 just for this reason. Might I suggest looking into doing the same?
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:23:00 -
[28]
Quote:
How many fights have you been in that are at 65km?
Point is most fighting (pvp) is around 20km or less.
I think the reason for most PvP fighting being at this range as that's the normal warp in range. If we had adjustable warp in ranges, combat would become alot more varied.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:37:00 -
[29]
Quote:
As for CPU, I have 750 CPU on my Dom with out any items. I trained my skills up to level 5 just for this reason. Might I suggest looking into doing the same?
lol.......who said dom has cpu problem???
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Entity
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:56:00 -
[30]
You just made the point Doc Brown.
The dominix is incredibly good value for money, while the megathron is only so-so and twice the price. Bit daft.
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