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Nati Ve
PSI Unlimited
0
   |
Posted - 2013.06.24 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm terrible at this game.
I love PvP*
*PvP above means the typically controlled or instanced PvP found in myriad other MMOs.
But I'm really struggling with it in this game. I've had my account for quite a while but I play in spurts. I decided I wanted to finally jump into the PvP so I did some research on a good starter PvP ship for Gallente and read the heck out some articles. Their content seemed well supported by other players. I fitted out my ship the way that was recommended and headed out to space. I had my little mental checklist of my tactics, the limitations of my ship and the potential limitations of my possible opponents.
I warped into an asteroid belt ( actually warped to within 20k) and was dead before I could say boo. I mean I had barely gotten a lock on my target when I was destroyed. That experience coupled with a pod killing earlier has made me wonder a couple things.
1. Who the **** am I supposed to kill? I don't want to be some random dip trying to find new players or defenseless players. I want to have some kind of story driven foe. Does such a thing exist?
2. How do I learn anything when the fights last such a brief time? I didn't even know where to begin in examining the reasons I got annihilated so brutally.
Any help would be great. I'm coming to this game with almost 8 years of Warcraft under my belt so I know I'm suffering from some old habits and incorrect ways of thinking.
Cheers |
Forest Archer
Explorer Corps
Disavowed.
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 19:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well just looked at your loss and you had nothing but a small armor repair, hull repair, and assorted guns on a brutix. So my advice is fly small stuff till you know how to pvp, look up good fits, and find a corp that'll teach you how to pvp.
Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. |
L'ouris
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
whatever guide told you to fit hull reppers on a PvP brutix should burn in hell....
try another set of guides.
20km is within warp disrupt range, don't warp in at that range unless you expect to warp disrupt the other guy too. it gives no room for you to assess the situation.
fly cheaper ships until you get the hang of the combat mechanics and meta in Eve. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2440
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18357109
The hell?
like 30% of your slots are empty...
How did you expect this to work at all?
I'd like to see the guide that recommended this...
The Drake is a Lie |
Atkins Friendly
NightWatch Ind
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Couple tips:
Fly with a gang - 5 people on your side is better then 0
Know your limits - Understand your range and the range of others and your dps vs their dps. This comes with time but if you are unsure you can kill it, it's best to avoid it
Use your dscan
Check out Kil2 on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/jampyzero/videos
He is now a CCP dev and doesnt put out any more videos, but you can learn a TON from watching what he does. Prolly one of the best Solo PVP'res i've seen.
Hope this helps.
Atkins |
Nati Ve
PSI Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
The brutix one was my fault. Got my new ship and hit .4 not paying attention. I'm fine with that one. That's the podded one.
The very short one I'm struggling with was in an incurus (sp?).
Brutix one was my fault. I know that. Stupid mistake to take unfitted ship into lowsec on accident. Not paying attention ftl.
|
L'ouris
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nati Ve wrote:The brutix one was my fault. Got my new ship and hit .4 not paying attention. I'm fine with that one. That's the podded one.
The very short one I'm struggling with was in an incurus (sp?).
Brutix one was my fault. I know that. Stupid mistake to take unfitted ship into lowsec on accident. Not paying attention ftl.
what killed you? (character sheet --> combat log ---> losses)
it will be hard for anyone to offer advice without more of the context behind your loss. There are many variables for fighting in frigate hulls including the "if that thing lands near me I will die" category.
sounds like your issue on that fight was just an understanding of what will instapop you and what won't. that comes with experience and instapopping a few times, so congratulations on starting the learning early :) |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2440
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Can you post the more recent loss to the killboard then?
The Drake is a Lie |
Praxis Ginimic
Dark Knight Legion
The Hydra Confederacy
375
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Don't sweat the losses man. I had something like 34'ish losses before I managed to put 1 legitimate kill on the board.
I had plenty of kills on the board because I was flying with friends, learning the whole while. Getting that first solo kills feels great though. Even if it's not solo but you know that your contribution to the kill was necessary.
Don't be discouraged. Just keep throwing cheap crap at the fire until it clicks. I'm a pretty casual player myself so it took the better part of a year before EVE PvP started to make sense. Good luck man. |
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
207
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Join Red v. Blue. Problem solved.
Free ships. Free advice. And as close as you will get anywhere in EvE to what you're used to in PvP (i.e., people of roughly equal SP and gear duking it out in more or less "arena" style). You will still die over and over and over, but if you listen and pay attention, at least you will learn something.
Spend half an hour reading their frigate fittings threads (rvbeve.com), and you should be able to at least undock in a non-failfit. Or let someone else do all the work for you and just grab a couple T1M0 frigs off the corp contracts they put up at cost, and you're ready to fight in 10 seconds or less.
|
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
780
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also keep in mind that PVP in EVE also evolves around some level of luck.
You can have a good fit, plenty of knowledge but unless you have luck (or more friends then your target  )on your side you will get blown up.
Do as others here have suggested, find people to fly with that you can learn from, no matter how many guides you read it wont really help you much since you have to learn by actually doing, and adjust to quick thinking.
Keep using cheap ships, look for targets you think you can beat, or at least have a fair chance against and keep doing this over and over until you learn your limits.
Good luck 
Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread
The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
|
Kharaxus
SpaceJunkys
21
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nati Ve wrote:I'm terrible at this game.
No you're not. Eve is a sandbox. Very few restrictions.
Jumping in somebody else's sandbox is terrible.
Build your own sandbox.
Nati Ve wrote: I fitted out my ship the way that was recommended...........
...........I'm coming to this game with almost 8 years of Warcraft under my belt so I know I'm suffering from some old habits and incorrect ways of thinking.
Cheers
After getting that out of your system - you might be ready to start playing. |
Colonel Sponz
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 07:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Props for honesty. Hope you find the help you deserve. |
Steven Koskanaiken
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 07:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Firstl.
Fit out a ship properly
Small armor repper on a Brutix...big NO.
Dual tanking...big NO.
Mixing guns...big NO.
Thinking you will win with no experience just cause you fly a BC...big NO.
Start with frigates and learn from the bottom up. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1037
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 07:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Problem is these days that most guides out there are ****.
And those that aren't **** are outdated. You can watch kil2's stuff but it won't really help you that much with frig level pvp.
BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
|
Steven Koskanaiken
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 08:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Freighdee Katt wrote:Join Red v. Blue. Problem solved.
Free ships. Free advice. And as close as you will get anywhere in EvE to what you're used to in PvP (i.e., people of roughly equal SP and gear duking it out in more or less "arena" style). You will still die over and over and over, but if you listen and pay attention, at least you will learn something.
Spend half an hour reading their frigate fittings threads (rvbeve.com), and you should be able to at least undock in a non-failfit. Or let someone else do all the work for you and just grab a couple T1M0 frigs off the corp contracts they put up at cost, and you're ready to fight in 10 seconds or less.
This.
RvB although not being a training corporation is a great place to learn PvP. |
Colonel Sponz
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 08:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Steven Koskanaiken wrote:Firstl.
Fit out a ship properly
Small armor repper on a Brutix...big NO.
Dual tanking...big NO.
Mixing guns...big NO.
Thinking you will win with no experience just cause you fly a BC...big NO.
Start with frigates and learn from the bottom up.
There is an argument for fitting small reps if you're in WH or null sec, although not ONLY small reps tbh. And what is up with the battery? There's nothing there draining your cap. I understand this isn't the fit you're referring to specifically but seriously you may just as well have gone and blown up your own ship for the effectiveness your Brutix had. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
Home Front Coalition
536
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 08:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
In the beginning... Eve solo PVP is like wrestling on a 50cm broad beam 20m above a spiked pit, while dodging meteor fragments, with your shoelaces on fire! As a newbie you probably fly frigates and dessies which unfortunately are easiest to outright destroy, with a couple of hits from anything larger. As long as this is happening you are attacking the wrong kind of targets at the wrong range. Remember the first time you did not die when you expected to die. This is often a moment of enlightenment!
Example: I never realized how small the sig radius of a Vigil was untill I dropped down a wormhole and held down a Tengu for a couple of minutes while sustaining only marginal damage from his long-range missiles. Unfortunately our small T1 Fleet didn't have the DPS to eat through his tank, but nobody died either - and we learned a thing or two. |
Nati Ve
PSI Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 13:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Steven Koskanaiken wrote:Firstl.
Thinking you will win with no experience just cause you fly a BC...big NO.
Start with frigates and learn from the bottom up.
I think this was the advice I needed to see. I rushed to get in the biggest ships I could afford because big ships are better right? This one of the side effects of the "level to cap" mentality ill need to address. I was looking at ships as the games "leveling" system as it was. Which I suppose they are in a way, but. Not the way I was thinking.
So I'm working on fitting out my Tristan and ratting and mission running. Learning to better control my drones and trying to build up a good base of skill sets. Start small and work up like so many have said. Good common sense advice but that's not my strength. ;)
And I wish I Could take back my first post on the EvE forums which was pretty much just a whiney, QQ post in hindsight. But at the very least it showed me that these forums are populated with well spoken folks that help out a dirty dirty nub without making him feel stupid. Hats off to you.
|
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
356
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 13:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
OK, several things:
1. You appear to be flying Gallente ships. Either warp in very far away just for a peek at the grid without intending to engage, or warp right the hell in on top of your target in a blaster-boat, intending to kill them or die trying. If you come out of warp and bump them, all the better. Coming in at mid-range outside short point is instant death in many cases, as you've discovered. Even a medium boat can likely peg you at 20 km.
2. There are ships and strategies that involve Gallente boats with long-range guns. Don't use these until you're more experienced. Blasters and brawl at close range (you'll be surprised how many people you kill just by being bloody crazy) or drones at mid-range with heavy tank for you as a newer player.
3. Don't worry about blowing up. You'll blow up all the time. Even when you're good at it in solo you're talking 50/50 even in "fair" engagements (which you should avoid, always cheat). It happens to the best of us, just avoid flying expensive ships when looking for a fight.
4. If you want "bigger is better" in low-sec PvP, the ship you want is the destroyer. Fly a destroyer, don't engage any cruisers, win by sheer number-crunch power. Warning: no one likes being outmatched, so the frigs you outweigh will usually avoid you. A BC or even a cruiser puts you at risk of not being able to hit things, typically if you want to fly medium+, stick with at least a small gang with some frigate support on your side. Eve is Navy, not Airforce, it's about logistics and support, not dogfights.
EDIT: Warcraft, like many fantasy MMOs, is a twitch + tactical game. That is, some of it's working off of the basic layout of the current battle, and some of it's just pressing the right buttons in the right order faster and with better timing than the other guy. Eve PvP is a tactical + strategic game... the "dealing with the current layout of the battle" element is still there, but there's a large strategic portion in equipping your ship with better tools (keeping in mind the old rock/paper/scissors bit) and not engaging without an advantage in the first place, with your reaction time being essentially irrelevant to the outcome of any given battle. Can you activate your **** within 5 seconds or so? Plenty fast, the server only synchs once a second anyhow. |
Steven Koskanaiken
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
54
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 13:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nati Ve wrote:Steven Koskanaiken wrote:Firstl.
Thinking you will win with no experience just cause you fly a BC...big NO.
Start with frigates and learn from the bottom up. I think this was the advice I needed to see. I rushed to get in the biggest ships I could afford because big ships are better right? This one of the side effects of the "level to cap" mentality ill need to address. I was looking at ships as the games "leveling" system as it was. Which I suppose they are in a way, but. Not the way I was thinking. So I'm working on fitting out my Tristan and ratting and mission running. Learning to better control my drones and trying to build up a good base of skill sets. Start small and work up like so many have said. Good common sense advice but that's not my strength. ;) And I wish I Could take back my first post on the EvE forums which was pretty much just a whiney, QQ post in hindsight. But at the very least it showed me that these forums are populated with well spoken folks that help out a dirty dirty nub without making him feel stupid. Hats off to you.
Exactly.
bigger isn't always better.
Every ship in EVE has it's counter. A battleship can be killed by a couple frigates, if they know what they are doing. Even capital ships can be destroyed by stuff much smaller then themself. EVE isn't about "level cap" grinding or max out gear, it's more about knowledge and experience. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 14:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Steps for Tristan PewPew Fun:
1. Find a corp that will help you determine skills/fittings you need and is willing to bring you along to pew pew.
2. Train fitting skills and prereqs so you can fit the following items (not all at the same time):
Hobgoblin 2s
Warrior 2s
Damage Control 2
T2 small Blasters
200mm/400mm plates
Micro Warp Drive
Web
Scram
Adaptive Nano Plating2
3. While training for the above items fit out 6-12 uber cheap tristans (mwd+web+scram+T2 drones, low meta blasters, etc.) and go be tackle monkey for your new friends that you made in step 1.
4. Enjoy watching internet spaceships blow up (sometimes yours, sometimes the enemy) and have a blast!
(RvB, Faction Warfare, and Eve Uni would be the 3 places I would look if I was in your shoes). |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 19:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quite sure he is a troll.
Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Praxis Ginimic
Dark Knight Legion
The Hydra Confederacy
375
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 20:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Steps for Tristan PewPew Fun:
1. Find a corp that will help you determine skills/fittings you need and is willing to bring you along to pew pew.
2. Train fitting skills and prereqs so you can fit the following items (not all at the same time):
Hobgoblin 2s
Warrior 2s
Damage Control 2
T2 small Blasters
200mm/400mm plates
Micro Warp Drive
Web
Scram
Adaptive Nano Plating2
3. While training for the above items fit out 6-12 uber cheap tristans (mwd+web+scram+T2 drones, low meta blasters, etc.) and go be tackle monkey for your new friends that you made in step 1.
4. Enjoy watching internet spaceships blow up (sometimes yours, sometimes the enemy) and have a blast!
(RvB, Faction Warfare, and Eve Uni would be the 3 places I would look if I was in your shoes).
^^^this^^^ I once let a thorax die to a tristan. Embarrassing, I know but it wasn't just a tristan. The little bast@rd was outside my point range and teasing me with his amazing drone skills. I was determined to catch him though. That was my mistake. He let me catch him, pointed me, then 2 canes landed and melted me. Have fun with that. |
Velarra
248
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 21:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nati Ve wrote:
1. Who the **** am I supposed to kill? I don't want to be some random dip trying to find new players or defenseless players. I want to have some kind of story driven foe. Does such a thing exist?
2. How do I learn anything when the fights last such a brief time? I didn't even know where to begin in examining the reasons I got annihilated so brutally.
Cheers
1. If you want story tied to your pvp, you may want to look at Faction War. Understand that involvement within FW will have severe repercussions on your standings with opposing NPC factions. These standings hits will haunt you for a long time, limiting some of the regions you may want to fly within later in your career, even if short term you could care less.
You might equally want to keep in mind that rarely is pvp in Eve, .... 'Sport' or something conducted with any concept of 'fair play' and equal footing involved or expected. Unless you enjoy the 'sporting' nature'of fox hunts & murder (be it an act of passion or premeditated with a group of co-conspirators). At which point, welcome to New Eden!  ... Generally ship combat is fast. The space between survival / death generally measured in seconds. If it goes on for a minute or two+, all participants have made some kind of horrible/embarrassing error.
2. Black boxing can help - record your play & fights with something like FRAPs. Just get more action with ships you can afford to lose. Bring friends to your fights and only engage when you have more pilots on your side of the engagement ;) ... Some people above have likewise mentioned the Kil2 videos. Good stuff there too. In general, just keep at it. Fly what you can afford to lose. Eventually the seconds slow down as you get used to it.
Good hunting
o7 |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
358
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 22:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Velarra wrote:You might equally want to keep in mind that rarely is pvp in Eve, .... 'Sport' or something conducted with any concept of 'fair play' and equal footing involved or expected.
That's not _entirely_ true. Red vs Blue is essentially a sports league within the game, and there are "arenas" restricted by ship type in the form of FW complexes, which won't necessarily be fair in numbers but prevent someone from dropping a carrier on your gang roam and so on.
So there are exceptions. |
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