When do the Angels answer for what they've done?

In any case, I don't expect the fact that it was a Republic Fleet strike force to make any difference. The military itself is not responsible, Shakor is.

As for military, this is true only to some extent. You know, someone actually develop these attack plans, right?

How do we fix it? We acknowledge the idiocy of the past, forgive each other, and move on. Whether or not both the Federation and the Republic are mature enough for such a revolutionary action is yet to be seen.

How do we fix it? We acknowledge the idiocy of the past, forgive each other, and move on. Whether or not both the Federation and the Republic are mature enough for such a revolutionary action is yet to be seen.

How do we fix it? We acknowledge the idiocy of the past, forgive each other, and move on. Whether or not both the Federation and the Republic are mature enough for such a revolutionary action is yet to be seen.

The only thing this whole fiasco shows is that the Gallente and Minmatars finally reached a breaking point.

It was only a matter of time, and it shows that they both are the truly evil side in all this. Both of them were just putting up a front while trying to figure out a way of stabbing each other in the back. Unlike them, us Caldari appreciate the relations we have with the Amarr.

The only thing this whole fiasco shows is that the Gallente and Minmatars finally reached a breaking point.

It was only a matter of time, and it shows that they both are the truly evil side in all this. Both of them were just putting up a front while trying to figure out a way of stabbing each other in the back. Unlike them, us Caldari appreciate the relations we have with the Amarr.

I fail to see the relevance in your statement to this discussion. The Cartel, who will be brought to account for their actions, are not the matter for debate here.

It's relevant because an Angel has no right to pass judgement on anyone in terms of what action is right or wrong. It's hypocritical.

How do you have ANY credibility or action to stand on and call out the Republic for one skirmish when you pull **** like this everyday of the week as a normal business day?

You overlook a fundamental flaw in this argument.

The Angel Cartel do not have an alliance, bound by treaties and laws, to the Federation.

Hostile action against the Federation is expected from them, and they don't hide it. To be frank, I'd rather listen to the man shooting me in the face than the one stabbing me in the back.


Yes he's lawbreaking scum, but he's honest about it.

Forgive me Msr Merovech, while you are no doubt well intentioned you seem to be implying some kind of parity in this situation?

What exactly are the Tribals forgiving the Federation for? Trying a Federal citizen in a Federal Court for a crime on Federal soil.

The Federation however is supposed to forgive two incursions into its territory and the premeditated murder of thousands of its service personnel.

Not to mention they don't seem to think they need forgiving.

I may not be an active participant in Federal politics these days, but I don't think so. And I dare say the voters will agree.

It seems that the following can describe the current point of views held by Republican capsuleers and Federation capsuleers on the matter:

• Republicans who do not believe an apology is necessary
• Federates who want an apology
• Federates who want to invade the Republic to teach them a lesson
• Republicans who think there should be reconciliation
• Republicans and Federates who don't give a care

I admit these are pretty broad strokes and there is more going on in the details, but at the end of the day we have a group of highly powerful individuals expressing their opinion on a matter that, at the end of the day, almost doesn't matter. The Republic does not appear to even acknowledge the events surrounding this disaster and the Senate hasn't made any demands on behalf of the Federation.

Thousands of men and women were sacrificed in nothing more than a game of chicken played by two political entities.

I am beginning to wonder who is more the monster here...the capsuleer or the politician.

It's easy to get hung up on the Republic's lack of response and totally forget that the Federation has been curiously silent. Well remarked.

The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that discussion simply occurred behind closed doors, and this discussion is actually out of date. Conspiracy theories, go!

Oh, and Anslo and Caellach... I've been giggling hysterically for several minutes. Never thought I'd see the day you two got into a catfight. Seriously, relax. You're both pretty.

It seems that the following can describe the current point of views held by Republican capsuleers and Federation capsuleers on the matter:

• Republicans who do not believe an apology is necessary
• Federates who want an apology
• Federates who want to invade the Republic to teach them a lesson
• Republicans who think there should be reconciliation
• Republicans and Federates who don't give a care

I admit these are pretty broad strokes and there is more going on in the details, but at the end of the day we have a group of highly powerful individuals expressing their opinion on a matter that, at the end of the day, almost doesn't matter. The Republic does not appear to even acknowledge the events surrounding this disaster and the Senate hasn't made any demands on behalf of the Federation.

I've been pretty public about my position, which is that the Federation should not be in an alliance with a foreign power that invades them on a whim. That puts me in the list down between the "wants an apology" and "wants to invade": Wants to dissolve the alliance to help minimize the threat of future attacks.

While I'll acknowledge that both the Republic and the Federation have been oddly silent on the issue, I don't think that's a reason for us to be silent. The Federation, at least, is built upon the ideals of democracy and democracy requires frank discussion. We shouldn't shut up simply because our respective governments either don't care about the issue or have worked out some backroom deal.

Whether or not we maintain an alliance, dissolve it, or do something drastic is now moot. The offense is too far removed now that any demand or action would fail to achieve its desired effect. Instead, the Senate and President need to be held accountable for their silence on the death of so many of its people for no apparent reason.

Who said anything about forgiving without reconciliation? Maybe if you actually had more substance to your own arguments, you wouldn't have to twist my words for your own purpose.

Look back at what I've said before. The Republic DOES need to answer for what happened, preferably in a non-violent manner such as sanctions. When I say both parties are at fault, I mean BOTH the Federation AND Republic. Not just the Federation.

What I'm NOT for is tearing up treaties and blasting up ships and stations in revenge. I like to think we're a weeee bit better than that. But hey by all means keep trying to twist my words, it's funny.

But the argument does have merit, though you seem to enjoy ignoring it. So, I'll spell it out for you. How do you have ANY credibility or action to stand on and call out the Republic for one skirmish when you pull **** like this everyday of the week as a normal business day?

Answer: None.