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Nick Bruiser
Archaeoceti
8
   |
Posted - 2013.06.25 17:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys back again for another question. Still thoroughly enjoying my time in eve but am looking for some help/advice with Amarr frigates.
Obviously as a 3 week old character my skills are lacking. I have T2 guns and ammo, and am training Amarr frigate 5 atm. I forced a pilot that was in the same corp for 7 years to flee with my Slicer last night. (He got away due to me running out of cap with my poor cap skills and cap management.) Now I probably lost 15 ships over the weekend just going out and looking for trouble, amongst all that I did finally get my first solo kill mail though so it was worth it! A bunch of those ships I lost were Slicers which is a bit pricey and after not scoring a kill due to needs to finish Amarr Frig 5, and work on cap skills and some more gunnery I had a question about the Tormentor.
The Tormentor looks like great fun, I've lost two of them in some random fits I threw of them but the fights came fast as I don't think anyone was afraid of me. My main concern is with my only drone skills being I believe drones 2 and I think light scout drones 1 or 2 the drones seem fairly useless. I was thinking of trying some ECM drones and a tank fit to wear an opponent down after work. Or perhaps armor repair drones to fly around and heal me? Or the energy drain drones?
Are these other tactical drones effective at what they do? Or would I be better off in an executioner? Not much a fan of the Punisher. I was also considering halting Amarr frig 5 and moving over to something new or perhaps its too soon and I might get burnt out retraining new T2 guns and new frigs before learning what I am currently working with. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
3
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Posted - 2013.06.25 18:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Without drone skills I probably wouldn't go Tormentor. Both the punisher and executioner though can be fun. |
L'ouris
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 18:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
I recommend flying an executioner while skilling to T2 drones.
Same combat style so it will be a good trainer for the tormentor with the same general engagement envelope.
Ab,scram web and scorch. Set your orbit so you fly just on the edge of oh scram range (9300-9600m)
Edit: fleets try punisher |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 19:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nick Bruiser wrote:Or perhaps armor repair drones to fly around and heal me? Armor repair drones will not heal your ship. They can only be used on things you can target, which is pretty much everything (including your drones), except your ship.
As for the other drones: EWAR drones can be useful, but they all require Drones V & Electronic Warfare IV to be used, which does require a few days of training.
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Nick Bruiser
Archaeoceti
9
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Posted - 2013.06.25 22:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
I failed to notice all those other drones require drones 5 + more. Going to mess around with the Crucifier a bit tonight and keep on trucking to Amarr Frig 5, then round out cap, gunnery, fitting skills and hop back in the Slicer. Speeding around in the slicer is a ton of fun. I suppose after I have fitting skills fairly solid I'll work on drones and work into an Arbitrator as my first cruiser.
Cruour (spelling?) looks quite interesting also at the frig level. Just expensive. |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 22:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Would definitively continue with Amar frigates V as it will give you access to tech 2 Amarr Assault ships (basically upgraded frigates). Also for Amarr make to skill controlled bursts as it is the primary skill to lower the capacitator usage of your guns considerably ( a traditional Amarr weakness). Also do not hesitate to skill drones V, it is a cornerstone skill for any pvp ship in EVE online.
Electronic Warfare drones do their job but as said before require some skilling but for one on one pvp they can make a considerable difference so much so a lot of pilots consider it bad mannered to use them. But hey you are young so why not take every advantage you can get to make the odds of victory equal? Standard tech 2 combat drones are very useful (especially handy is that you can use drones of all races so you can have them in a damage type opposite of what your main guns carry as to make it harder for your opponent to tank your damage) as well so you might want to switch them out regularly and get a feel for operating them both. Repair drones really mostly come to their right in pvp tournaments like the upcoming Alliance Tournament XI, I advice you to watch the live streams as you will learn a lot of pvp basics from them. In larger fleets the repairing is mostly done by dedicated logistics pilots and ships and repair drones are not often used there.
I think overall you are on the right path to become a good pvper. Fly the ship you like best and you will get there. If you have any other questions feel free to ask them and I'll answer if I can.
Fly Safe o/
Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
130
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 10:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nick Bruiser wrote:
Obviously as a 3 week old character my skills are lacking. I have T2 guns and ammo, and am training Amarr frigate 5 atm. I forced a pilot that was in the same corp for 7 years to flee with my Slicer last night. (He got away due to me running out of cap with my poor cap skills and cap management.) Now I probably lost 15 ships over the weekend just going out and looking for trouble, amongst all that I did finally get my first solo kill mail though so it was worth it! A bunch of those ships I lost were Slicers which is a bit pricey and after not scoring a kill due to needs to finish Amarr Frig 5, and work on cap skills and some more gunnery I had a question about the Tormentor.
Nick, I have underlined and made bold what I think is the prime issue here. Amarr ships have historically been very CAP intensive, so first and foremost you need to get on top of your CAP management. If you can get your CAP to be stable at 33% with all of your guns firing and a single armour repper running you are on your way.
OK, initially your DPS will suffer, but using that as a yardstick will give you a good platform to build on. Alternativly, move away from laser weapons and focus more on Missile and drones.
The Amarr have taken the hint from our Caldari friends, so we now have a lot more in the way of missile friendly ships, at least when compaired to our original fleets |
Nick Bruiser
Archaeoceti
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 19:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:Nick Bruiser wrote:
Obviously as a 3 week old character my skills are lacking. I have T2 guns and ammo, and am training Amarr frigate 5 atm. I forced a pilot that was in the same corp for 7 years to flee with my Slicer last night. (He got away due to me running out of cap with my poor cap skills and cap management.) Now I probably lost 15 ships over the weekend just going out and looking for trouble, amongst all that I did finally get my first solo kill mail though so it was worth it! A bunch of those ships I lost were Slicers which is a bit pricey and after not scoring a kill due to needs to finish Amarr Frig 5, and work on cap skills and some more gunnery I had a question about the Tormentor.
Nick, I have underlined and made bold what I think is the prime issue here. Amarr ships have historically been very CAP intensive, so first and foremost you need to get on top of your CAP management. If you can get your CAP to be stable at 33% with all of your guns firing and a single armour repper running you are on your way.
Stable at 33%. I have seen people mention at times they are stable at various percentages in my reading. How does this work? Do modules take less cap as you run out, or do you regenerate more? |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 19:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nick Bruiser wrote:Do modules take less cap as you run out, or do you regenerate more? You recharge more.
Peak recharge rate is around 25%.
See the nice graph at https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capacitor_recharge_rate |
Nick Bruiser
Archaeoceti
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 19:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you for that information. When looking at the fitting window and it will says my capacitor will run for 1:20 seconds instead of stable. Is that taking into account the fluctuations in recharge rate over time? Or is this something to experiment with ship to ship, fit to fit, in order to master your own set ups that even out somewhere in that sweet spot of capacitor recharge. |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 21:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
The fitting window does take the fluctuation into account, so if it says that you run out in 1:20, then you'll run out in 1:20.
However, the fitting window also supposes that you are running all your active modules all the time, which usually isn't true. E.g. if you have repair mods, you might only pulse them from time to time and you may even have some optional modules that you'll only use after the fight (e.g. a Tractor Beam). |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
140
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 21:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nick Bruiser wrote:Thank you for that information. When looking at the fitting window and it will says my capacitor will run for 1:20 seconds instead of stable. Is that taking into account the fluctuations in recharge rate over time? Or is this something to experiment with ship to ship, fit to fit, in order to master your own set ups that even out somewhere in that sweet spot of capacitor recharge.
If I am trying to teach you to 'suck eggs' Nick appologies, that's not my intention. But I can't stress enough, good CAP management skills are a must for all ships, no matter the faction. But are more important for Amarr as our ships and (traditional) weapons systems are not exacly CAP friendly.
The good things is; if you get your CAP management sorted now while you are still in frigates, it will stand you well when you move up as most of the skills will not need to be re-learnt. So once you can get a frigate CAP stable, when you jump into a Cruiser, Battle Cruiser or even Battleship yo will find that they will also be 'more or less' stable too, with some tweeking.
At your stage of the game, you are going to have to sacrifice all of your mid slots, and even rig slots to fit CAP rechargers and Capacitor Control Circuits. If you are going to be doing PvP, there is no two ways about it, but that will 'nerf' your pewpew abilities.
As mentioned, the lower your Capacitor is, the faster it will recharge (fill-up). Traditionally there was this magic sweet spot at 33% where you could have all your guns firing and have a Armour Repper perma running. When your fitting screen tells you that your CAP usage is stable, that is the point that it will tend to settle at, so long as you are not being Nos'ed or Neuted.
OK, trick for hitting that sweet spot
1. Obviously focus on getting any skills that ease or slow CAP usage as high as possible, which is basically most of your Engineering skills, and skills like Controlled Burst in gunnery.
2. Avoid using beam lasers, go for Pulse which are more CAP friendly
3. Avoid using close range/high damage crystals, they will eat CAP like crazy. But if you are using Pulse, you will need the longer ranged crystals anyway.
4. if you are into your PvP, consider training up missile/rocket skills first. Amarr now have some decent missile boats at all levels which means that you can run a decent offence without having to overload with CAP management equipment.
lol I was going to put a load more down, but it's late for me, so I'll post this now as I can't get mt head in gear. But if you need any more advice, keep on posting here, or Eve mail me in game
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L'ouris
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 23:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Just figured I'd ask how long YOUR frigate fights are lasting?
Your cap doesn't need to be much more than that to start with everything running.
Most of your opponents will be shooting for around 1m - 1m30s of cap life.
Any more than that and you are flying a "specialized" fit frigate, which can have its uses, but isn't a good general goal for your ships.
The cap skills ally affect your fight time in larger hulls, but you don't need to fast track them in frigs. There is a ton of other support skills you can devote time too.
IMO of course... |
Nick Bruiser
Archaeoceti
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 23:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Not asking me to suck eggs at all. Just one question spawns two more which spawn two of their own, never ending search for knowledge ha. I thank you for the advice.
L'ouris some are over very quickly, when I try to kite with a Slicer it takes longer. The fight was very winnable if I had pulsed my MWD to give me more time to finish off his hull instead of running out of cap and him warping off. |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 23:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
L'ouris wrote:Just figured I'd ask how long YOUR frigate fights are lasting? Depends on whether it's PvE or PvP.
While each opponent dies quickly in PvE missions, there are many and it takes a while to kill them all.
And even in PvP: while a 1v1 Frigate fight is usually over quickly, larger battles last longer. And if you are a gang of frigates who happened to get under the guns of a battleship, you might need a while to break its tanks.
If you are roaming solo, cap is less important, but in pretty much any other situation you want to be able to run your weapons full time. (Other modules might or might not be as important.) |
L'ouris
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 00:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your experiences may be different than mine,
In large battles the Frigs are cleared or they are left alone to make on grid and off grid bounce points to self repair or recap.
Most cap is sucked from reppers, neuts, ewar and prop mods, so if you get in under a larger ships guns you:
A- don't need your repper or prop mod as much
B - small neuts against cruiser or bigger ships is just a waste of your frigate cap
C- ewar is less important if your already under his guns.
Even interceptors holding long point outside of neut range, burning hot to outrun drones only need to last long enough to get backup.
Again, I fully agree with everything your saying as it applies to Bigger hulls ( my poor maller ), just haven't seen the need for that much cap in frigates. |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
141
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 07:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nick Bruiser wrote:
L'ouris some are over very quickly, when I try to kite with a Slicer it takes longer. The fight was very winnable if I had pulsed my MWD to give me more time to finish off his hull instead of running out of cap and him warping off.
Here is another thing you can change Nick. Swap out the MWD for an AB. OK you loose speed, but not a deperate amount for a frigate. But remember, as soon as you fit a MWD and on-line it, you automatically loose half of your CAP.
As others have said, CAP management is not too important for a frigate, but as you move onto bigger ships it does become more so, with equal matched BS battles usually coming down to who can manage their CAP the best.
Being able to get CAP stability is probably more important for PvE then PvP, but no matter what class of ship you end up flying you will need to ensure you have enough CAP to see out a fight. The question is, how much of your DPS/tanking can you afford to sacrifice to maintain your CAP, and only you can realy answer that as it's one of those personal things, not a right or wrong thing. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
128
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 00:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Get the frigate to V as well as T2 guns (I only did IV in specializations at first) then go back and grind on core skills. Amarr are cap-intensive so investing in more cap and faster recharge are solid skills to max.
The entire Nav tree is your friend. Just maxing everything that moves you faster is a given to offset armor tanked ship performance. You'll also need to run prop mods often so reducing cap need is worth it's weight in gold.
Having to share low slots between tank and damage mods can hurt, so NOT requiring fitting modules is again, critical. Every fitting mod you need gimps the whole ship.
EWAR- Damp or TD an enemy into missing at ranges your lasers hit for full damage at.
Energy Xfer- you may often find yourself equipping a vamp to help with your own cap.
Ignore cap stability for PvP. Most fights lasts mere seconds in a small ship. A minute or two of cap is common for PvP frigs, especially if you run a vamp to extend it a bit. Likewise, the all or nothing ancillary boosters work great for brief, violent clashes.
Don't forget to take your pills. Even those odds with other pilots by doing drugs!
Fly in fleets, and set your booster. Every little 2% of something helps.
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