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Arlenic Cocomoonik
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:29:00 -
[1]
Hello.
We have three groups of people here, as far as the current gametime card issue.
1. Those who choose to buy gametime cards from CCP with their RL money to pay for EVE Online subscription.
2. Those who choose(would like to) to pay for EVE Online subscription in ISK.
3. Those who choose to buy ISK "legally" by selling their gametime cards for ISK.
Everyone seems to dislike group number 3, obviously because some of them are abusing the system. And to some people buying ISK, in any way or form, is just wrong.
Solution:
1.Start a new service to allow players to pay for EVE Online subscription in ISK. This could even be set in the "wallet" under payable bills.
2.Require the buyers of gametime cards to provide ONE game account while purchasing gametime cards so to have that card(s) linked to that ONE account. This would inforce the use of gametime cards by those who bought them originally. This would prevent the sell of gametime cards for ISK.
Group number 1 gets to pay for the subscription as usual. They are happy.
Group number 2 gets to pay for the subscription in ISK. They are happy.
Group number 3 gets eliminated. Everyone's happy.
Peace!
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:32:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Chode Rizoum on 27/11/2005 11:31:41
iam not happy 
Teddycorp signature... By myal terego
www.evepirates.com/
http://www.tundragon.com/ killboard |
Jaka
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:37:00 -
[3]
Yeah, and where would CCP get it's $$$ from then, if everyone just paid for game-time with ISK?
And also which GTC retailer is going to collect buyer data and send it back to CCP?
Stupid idea.
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Virida
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:39:00 -
[4]
Lesson in economy:
First premise: companies live of selling.
Second premise:if company give away its product, it get no profit.
Third premise:companies with no profit, got no money to pay for electrical bills, and pay gm's/devs/ISP.
Making an "pay for game with in-game money" system is ridiculous, and an combination of chinese farmers, and an system where CCP's income get vampirised by chinese companies make some eve players live of funding farmers, or whatever is most profitable.
It could end up, with isk time cards paying 50% of accounts, and chinese farming get CCP's money. BAAAD IDEA!
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:42:00 -
[5]
Arlenic, you suggested this before and every time you start a thread about it, I'll come and tell you AGAIN AND AGAIN why it doesn't work.
If two people pay for their subscription for a certain length of time, CCP gets two subscription payments and both people keep their ISK. If someone buys a game time card and then sells it to another guy for ISK, CCP gets two subscription payments (since the cards cost money equivalent to paying for their subscription for that length of time) and one person gives ISK to the other. In your scenario, one person pays for his subscription with RL money and the other with ISK. You failed to recognise that CCP would only be getting ONE payment for that time period from two subscribers. If even 1/10th of the players bought their gametime directly for ISK without having the game time card in-between, CCP could possibly end up not being able to afford to keep Eve running. If 1/10th of people pay with ISK, CCP get 1/10th less income.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/11/2005 11:44:04
*sigh*
The reason CCP allows gtc -> isk trading and v.v. in a regulated manner is threefold:
1. they can't stop it anyway, and this way at least they keep an eye on things.
2. it's having a negative impact on farming for rl cash.(but could have a much greater one if CCP did some extra work).
3. it has no (direct) negative impact on CCP income
Are you familiar with the dutch laws on cannabis and other prohibited substances ? (yes, they are prohibited by law still, even here).
The government here decided to allow, or keep a blind eye to, the possession and use of low quatities of cannabis.
Their resoning was that it prevents the people using and trading it from sinking deeper into the criminal world of drug trafficking, and makes the user population more visible and controllable to the government.
The Netherlands have one of the lowest percentages of hard drug using inhabitants in Europe, and the percentage is not even remotey comparable to nations with a notorious harsh approach to drug abuse such as the U.S. or France.
I know, I know, no real life analogies and no real life politics on these forums please.
But, compare buying isk for playing to soft drug abuse here and professional isk farming to hard drug abuse. What CCP did here was set the first major step towards a similar policy regarding the economics of real for virtual trade: regulate and allow the inevitable but less distrubing parts fo the whole deal in order to be able to suppress the much more serious parts of the trade.
I think it's possibly a ver applicable policy when it comes to this subject. But noone other then me seems to recognise this possibility at all...?
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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Arlenic Cocomoonik
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Posted - 2005.11.27 11:52:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Nyphur
Arlenic, you suggested this before and every time you start a thread about it, I'll come and tell you AGAIN AND AGAIN why it doesn't work.
Nyphur, I've never suggested this before, and I've never started a thread about it. In fact, this is my first time posting on the topic of gametime cards.
So I guess what everyone else is suggesting is that CCP is okay with people buying ISK legally.
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Arlenic Cocomoonik
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:06:00 -
[8]
...and yes, I see how stupid it is the idea of paying for the subscription in ISK. But can't CCP at least inforce the use of gametime cards by those who bought them originally? Peace!
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Jaka
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:06:00 -
[9]
A bit OT, but where do all the ppl get the 90-day GTCs? Don't only 50- and 100-day ones exist?
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Arlenic Cocomoonik
2.Require the buyers of gametime cards to provide ONE game account while purchasing gametime cards so to have that card(s) linked to that ONE account. This would inforce the use of gametime cards by those who bought them originally. This would prevent the sell of gametime cards for ISK.
I get my gametime cards from an online shop that's specialized on MMORPG stuff.
If I have to buy them from CCP, it's pointless for me, because then I need a credit card afaik and then I could just pay with credit card. 
___________
'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.' |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jaka
A bit OT, but where do all the ppl get the 90-day GTCs? Don't only 50- and 100-day ones exist?
CCP sells gametime in bulk to retailers, mostly online reatilers, and probably the same online retailers that sell isk they get from farmers, but there's little to be done about it.
I guess CCP sells that gametime in 30-60-90-120-150 day increments rather then the 50-100 day increments CCP uses on their oldfashioned scratchcards.
It's not like people can make up timecodes themselves.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Arlenic Cocomoonik
...and yes, I see how stupid it is the idea of paying for the subscription in ISK. But can't CCP at least inforce the use of gametime cards by those who bought them originally? Peace!
Now, that would be nice. A need to use a gtc you bought for isk for the account you bought it with.
Hard to implement ?
Not at all, just design a secure webtool to do the trades in and outlaw all other means of trading them for isk again.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:31:00 -
[13]
But just to add, I see no reason to change something about the gametime cards itself.
If someone wants to break the rules, they don't have to use a game card for it. They could just do the trade in $$, so there is no point in making a use restriction of these keys.
If we should be able to trade gametime that's restricted to an account in some way, then implement a mechanism for that. Should not be that difficult with a web interface. No need to exchange keys for that at all. Implement an isk and a gametime account that people are able and allow them to do a trade via web interface.
The question remains if that's a good thing and something that we want.
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'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.' |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Jaka
A bit OT, but where do all the ppl get the 90-day GTCs? Don't only 50- and 100-day ones exist?
CCP sells gametime in bulk to retailers, mostly online reatilers, and probably the same online retailers that sell isk they get from farmers, but there's little to be done about it.
I guess CCP sells that gametime in 30-60-90-120-150 day increments rather then the 50-100 day increments CCP uses on their oldfashioned scratchcards.
It's not like people can make up timecodes themselves.
I get my keys from a shop with good reputation.
They sell games, expansions, gametime keys, activations keys, fan articles etc. for many games.
I'm almost 100% percent sure that they don't support anything that's against the EULAs of these games or that's against the 'spirit' of MMORPGs.
Afaik they are the number 1 in Germany and a reason, why a lot of players in my country are in this game.
Somebody who sees 'credit card required', doesn't own one and doesn't know if the game is worth obtaining one, just looks for another game I think. Probably he doesn't even download the trial then.
___________
'DISCLAIMER: All opinions in this post are provided "as is" and without any warranties.' |
thesulei
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:46:00 -
[15]
I keep missing one thing that nobody ever mentions:
You still can't make real life euros or dollars with this system. Sure you can buy your way into EVE with the gametime cards, but you still can't (and may not) sell the isk from gametimecards for a real-currency-profit.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: thesulei
I keep missing one thing that nobody ever mentions:
You still can't make real life euros or dollars with this system. Sure you can buy your way into EVE with the gametime cards, but you still can't (and may not) sell the isk from gametimecards for a real-currency-profit.
What people are afraid of happening is that farmers will buy gamteime on the forums from those selliing them for isk. Then turna round and put the gtc's on ebay for cash again, effectively turning isk into cash.
They even say that now that ccp allowes buying of gtc's ingame for isk that it means that selling isk for cash via the gtc in-between is therefor also allowed by CCP.
I don't agree with either point.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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Menelak Faf
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Posted - 2005.11.27 12:53:00 -
[17]
Step 4: CCP lists ISK on e-bay?
SoonÖ is relative. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Arlenic Cocomoonik
Originally by: Nyphur
Arlenic, you suggested this before and every time you start a thread about it, I'll come and tell you AGAIN AND AGAIN why it doesn't work.
Nyphur, I've never suggested this before, and I've never started a thread about it. In fact, this is my first time posting on the topic of gametime cards.
So I guess what everyone else is suggesting is that CCP is okay with people buying ISK legally.
I recall replying to a you in another thread where you made this suggstion. I'd recognise that sig anywhere.
And no, everyone is not saying CCP is okay with people buying ISK. It'd do you a lot of good to read the explanations everyone is giving rather than being closedminded on the issue. If CCP accepted isk for gametime directly, they'd lose their main source of income. Other games that have done this have had to keep themselves afloat by offering teh reverse - money for in-game currency and such. It's not going to happen.
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Sickbitch
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:45:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Everyone seems to dislike group number 3, obviously because some of them are abusing the system. And to some people buying ISK, in any way or form, is just wrong.
everyone?
i d say a majority of people dont care what people do.
in fact i like people selling timecards for isk.
ccp makes money and i can play eve by buying timecards for worthless isk
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Thomus
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Posted - 2005.11.27 13:52:00 -
[20]
I went down to the shop today, and asked if I could pay for some food, with the leftovers of the food i brought last time. They said no. I was shocked, thought about making a stand against it, and saw the same sort of suggestion made here, so i thought I'd share this with you.
You can't expect a company to change so that they loose money, just to satisfy those who have strong opinions against Time Card stuff.
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Tom |
Redblade
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Posted - 2005.11.27 16:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
I think it's possibly a ver applicable policy when it comes to this subject. But noone other then me seems to recognise this possibility at all...?
I totaly agree with your possition on this but can't find anything to add realy as u cover it in writing much better then i could.
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dailyhazard
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Posted - 2005.11.27 17:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Arlenic Cocomoonik
1.Start a new service to allow players to pay for EVE Online subscription in ISK. This could even be set in the "wallet" under payable bills.
The only reason ccp allow it to happen is that they dont lose out on the rl cash, so you know this would not work at all.
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Arlenic Cocomoonik
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Posted - 2005.11.28 04:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Arlenic Cocomoonik
Originally by: Nyphur
Arlenic, you suggested this before and every time you start a thread about it, I'll come and tell you AGAIN AND AGAIN why it doesn't work.
Nyphur, I've never suggested this before, and I've never started a thread about it. In fact, this is my first time posting on the topic of gametime cards.
So I guess what everyone else is suggesting is that CCP is okay with people buying ISK legally.
I recall replying to a you in another thread where you made this suggstion. I'd recognise that sig anywhere.
Nyphur, again, I've never made this suggestion in any other thread. The one that you are referring to was about macrominers. Maybe you've got it all confused. Anyhow, you need to stop with your false accusations, cause it won't look good on your resume.
It's easy to forget that this is just a game and there is a company behind it who is trying to make money. As a gamer, I take it as a challenge, and to those who choose to cheat I say, BRING IT ON. Peace!
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2005.11.28 04:43:00 -
[24]
You guys seriously got too much time on your hands.
Originally by: Nyphur
I'm hungry and naked. That answer your question?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.28 06:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Arlenic Cocomoonik
Nyphur, again, I've never made this suggestion in any other thread. The one that you are referring to was about macrominers. Maybe you've got it all confused. Anyhow, you need to stop with your false accusations, cause it won't look good on your resume.
It's easy to forget that this is just a game and there is a company behind it who is trying to make money. As a gamer, I take it as a challenge, and to those who choose to cheat I say, BRING IT ON. Peace!
Oh damn, you're right, I'd better take the eve forums off my resume  .
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Arlenic Cocomoonik
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Posted - 2005.11.28 06:58:00 -
[26]
I do agree with you though on the fact that If we were able to pay for the subscription in ISK, it would hurt CCP really bad. That was just a bad idea from me. But still, they could at least inforce solution #2. Peace!
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Staranc
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Posted - 2005.11.28 07:03:00 -
[27]
I think things are just fine.. no one is getting killed over it or is there?
If it was really bad then CCP would obviously do something or maybe they are?
Anyway... i'm tired :P
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