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ECM Jamming Question

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Angry Sheep	Posted - 2005.11.27 18:23:00 - [1] Question: I ECM jam some one: If successful - , is just me they cannot target or is it every body for the duration of the module Jam? Ta in advance It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Xrak	Posted - 2005.11.27 18:24:00 - [2] Originally by: Angry Sheep Question: I ECM jam some one: If successful - , is just me they cannot target or is it every body for the duration of the module Jam? Ta in advance Unable to target anything. Stolen, lovingly, from Tekka.
Filan	Posted - 2005.11.28 16:37:00 - [3] if you ECM them after they lock can it break their lock though?
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.28 16:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Filan if you ECM them after they lock can it break their lock though? Yes ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Filan	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:16:00 - [5] hahaha yep works like a charm, had some Guristas locked on(more then i like at once), ECM'd two of them and they lost lock. i think i might take a liking to this Electronic Warfare thing.
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:25:00 - [6] Here is the ECM/ECCM success formula since that is where you are heading for future fun and enjoyment. X / (Y+A) = Z 100Z = E X = ECM jamming strength Y = Ship sensor strength A = ECCM additional sensor strength, if it exists Z = Non-finalized percentage in decimal form of ECM jamming success E = Finalized percentage of ECM Jamming success against target ship. Note that 100Z is the shorthand algebraic form for 100 multiplied by the Z variable. Example* A racial white-noise ECM jammer of 6 against an amarrian apoc battleship, without ECCMs, would be: 6 / (20+0) = .3 100 * .3 = 30 30% chance to jam the Apoc 6 = ECM jamming strength 20 = Ship sensor strength 0 = ECCM additional sensor strength, if it exists .3 = Non-finalized percentage in decimal form of ECM jamming success 30 = Finalized percentage of ECM Jamming success against target ship. ------------------------------------- "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin
Galldar	Posted - 2005.11.28 20:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Guardian Alpha Here is the ECM/ECCM success formula since that is where you are heading for future fun and enjoyment. X / (Y+A) = Z 100Z = E X = ECM jamming strength Y = Ship sensor strength A = ECCM additional sensor strength, if it exists Z = Non-finalized percentage in decimal form of ECM jamming success E = Finalized percentage of ECM Jamming success against target ship. Note that 100Z is the shorthand algebraic form for 100 multiplied by the Z variable. Example* A racial white-noise ECM jammer of 6 against an amarrian apoc battleship, without ECCMs, would be: 6 / (20+0) = .3 100 * .3 = 30 30% chance to jam the Apoc 6 = ECM jamming strength 20 = Ship sensor strength 0 = ECCM additional sensor strength, if it exists .3 = Non-finalized percentage in decimal form of ECM jamming success 30 = Finalized percentage of ECM Jamming success against target ship. (x/(y+a))*100=e Not that I'm picking on you,lol. One equation works better.
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:18:00 - [8] No worries Never even thought of simplifying it into a singular equation, but it certainly helps. ------------------------------------- "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin
Filan	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:39:00 - [9] do they stack? ie can i throw multiple ECMs at one target to raise my chances.
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:57:00 - [10] Nope. As far as my testing has shown, each new ECM jammer is just a new dice roll attempt. The ECM's themselves do not stack. ------------------------------------- "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.28 22:02:00 - [11] yes RMR will bring some changes and maybe stacking bonuses up to 3 but then after 4 it becomes very ineffective
Stratosfear	Posted - 2005.11.28 22:06:00 - [12] Originally by: sonofollo yes RMR will bring some changes and maybe stacking bonuses up to 3 but then after 4 it becomes very ineffective Stacking does not apply, each module is an independent roll.
Deathhawk	Posted - 2005.11.28 23:36:00 - [13] the more ecm modules you use brings up the strenght e.g...1x multi is 4 strenght, use 2 and its 8 etc..etc... or thats how it used to be... Yours is not to wonder why?... yours is just to DO or DIE!...
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.28 23:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Deathhawk the more ecm modules you use brings up the strenght e.g...1x multi is 4 strenght, use 2 and its 8 etc..etc... or thats how it used to be... Hasn't been that way for ages. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.28 23:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Deathhawk the more ecm modules you use brings up the strenght e.g...1x multi is 4 strenght, use 2 and its 8 etc..etc... or thats how it used to be... Not since the ECM changes aaaaaages ago. now, if 1 module gives you a 30% chance to jam, 4 modules give you 4 seperate 30% chances. The odds are heavily in your favour, but lady luck is a fickle mistress. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Deathhawk	Posted - 2005.11.28 23:40:00 - [16] lol ok ive been away for aaaaaaaages haha ill be quiet now Yours is not to wonder why?... yours is just to DO or DIE!...
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.28 23:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Deathhawk lol ok ive been away for aaaaaaaages haha ill be quiet now Actually it is a very common misconception. Don't feel bad, if anything you have helped educate the community. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Krane Albright	Posted - 2005.12.01 08:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Krane Albright on 01/12/2005 08:39:29 A few corp mates and myself did a little bit of research on probability math, to see how you could calculate the probability that you would suceed in jamming a target with multiple modules. The result is as follows - extending on from the formula posted above ... X = ECM jamming strength Y = Ship sensor strength A = ECCM additional sensor strength, if it exists E = Chance of single module successfully jamming N = Number of jammers used P = Marginal Probability defined here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_probability (X/(Y+A))*100=E 1-(1-E)^N=P Assume you are using a Scorpion (EW strength bonus), T2 Jammers, with signal dispersion 4, Caldari BS 4 - Each of your individual modules has a strength of 10.368. Pretty good, against an Apoc - sensor strength of 20 - you get 52% chance to jam with one module. The old stacking wisdom would say 2 modules gives you a 100% jam, whereas the probability of the jam is 77%. 3 modules 89%, 4 modules 95% ... 6 modules gives 99% Pilot 1 1 - 52% 2 - 77% 3 - 89% 4 - 95% 5 - 97% 6 - 99% So this is a pretty good scorp pilot, with t2 modules - you still need 6 modules to get close to a 100% probability of jamming. In practice you would probably be fine with 3 or 4 modules - this is for a good scorp pilot. Heres a pilot with Caldari Battleship 3, using t1 jammers (6.0 strength). Each module has a 35% chance to jam, giving the following Pilot 2 1 - 35% 2 - 57% 3 - 72% 4 - 82% 5 - 88% 6 - 92% So to compare - to get the same acceptable probability of ~90% - you need 3 race specific jammers with the first pilot and 5 or more with the second pilot. Now I feel like a true geek for posting this, but I hope it helps :) Cheers Krane
Willo Vasquez	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:22:00 - [19] Another question on ECM for you.... If I'm already locked up by a player / rat, will an ECM jammer break that lock and make them unable to target, or do I need to use another module in addition to the jammer?
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Deathhawk lol ok ive been away for aaaaaaaages haha ill be quiet now Actually it is a very common misconception. Don't feel bad, if anything you have helped educate the community. Don't say that, he'll want paid! :p
Stratosfear	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Willo Vasquez Another question on ECM for you.... If I'm already locked up by a player / rat, will an ECM jammer break that lock and make them unable to target, or do I need to use another module in addition to the jammer? Yes, it will break any locks.
KIATolon	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:52:00 - [22] How does accuracy and falloff affect this equation?
Theradus	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:05:00 - [23] Originally by: KIATolon How does accuracy and falloff affect this equation? i would like to know as well. and also for other modules that have the same effect. such as target painters. how does falloff effect that as well?
Krane Albright	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Theradus Originally by: KIATolon How does accuracy and falloff affect this equation? i would like to know as well. and also for other modules that have the same effect. such as target painters. how does falloff effect that as well? I dont know a thing about target painters, dampners or tracking disruptors from a math point of view. As for jamming, my understanding from the post by TomB - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=152054&page=1 - you are getting 100% of those numbers from the equation above within your optimal, with a sliding drop between your optimal and falloff. Without doing a lot of calculations on this, its late here, if you have an optimal of 100km, falloff of 50km, with a marginal probability, within optimal, of 80%, 100km you'd be 80% 110km you'd have a 64% probability (80%80%) 125km you'd get 40% (80%50%) 150km would be ~0% Note, this hasn't been tested so feel free to dispute this. Any test results would be cool. Cheers Krane
KIATolon	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:41:00 - [25] I jammed a geddon at 200km in a scorp with a phase inverter. Twice in a row.

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