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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.29 09:50:00 -
[1]
I've had this little idea floating around.
One of the main tactics an attacking force can use is to log off in their opponents space, and then log on later when the defenders are unprepared and wreak havoc. Many consider it lame, but it happens all the time.
So here's the idea.
When you log off in a non-allied alliance's sovereign space, your ship doesn't disappear. Instead, you just warp off 1mkm away and can be scanned down. This would give a real use for sovereignty as a defense and give attackers a reason to take sovereignty other than to take stations.
It would require a little bit of extra coding--perhaps all alliances that Alliance X sets to +5 or higher can log off and disappear in their sovereign space.
Good? Bad? Flames?
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Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:03:00 -
[2]
That would finaly solve the logon trap problem and make the live of random gankers at least risky. We have so many ceptor pilots who come to us, gank a hauler, warp around for 20 minutes and log off in space then. When they dont send us a eve-mail befor they dont got any risk when they run around on insta.
I like this idea.
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$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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PKlavins
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:23:00 -
[3]
/signed    
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:31:00 -
[4]
Very good - simple idea.
 Originally by: Nyphur
I'm hungry and naked. That answer your question?
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Vicarrah
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:34:00 -
[5]
Personally I've always thought it was silly that ships disappeared at all when you logged off.
back when there were no starbases/outposts yes, there was a need for it. now we have these fortified structures in place I think it could be time to remove the ship disappearing act completely.
logout/login tactics are using out of game methods to achieve an ingame victory (however they're used) and the ability for people to remove their ships from the game-universe gives rise to various forms of non-honourable gaming.
/signed.
Vicarrah
Tahiri Protector |
TheKiller8
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:36:00 -
[6]
Personally the only place where I think a player should be safe is docked in a station. Ships should not disappear in space at all under any circumstance. Charging into hostile space, wreaking havoc and then simply logging off when you get pinned down with bubbles is not only lame but simply doesn't make sense. If people suddenly have to leave or get disconnected it should be at the cost of them, not their enemies. Want to remain safe? Fit a cloaking device or just dock.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.11.29 10:37:00 -
[7]
I like
Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
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Rodge
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:16:00 -
[8]
I've experienced both sides of this. I've been the invader running from the Blob that forms, I've been the defender listening to the enemy smalktalking while sitting at deep safespots and constantly moving between different safespots.
I don't believe that allowing ships to stay indefinitely is any answer at all. It will dissuade people from ever attacking any alliance's space (which I'm sure lots of people would actually like). There's a little thing called RL that sometimes interferes with Eve, and means that people have to log off at short notice. If I ever get an emergency "Lets go to the pub for a couple of pints" phone call, I don't want to have to reply "Sorry, I have to move back 15 jumps or else I'll definitely be dead tomorrow" (lets be serious, if this did come in then alliances would put POSs in EVERY system, just to claim sovreignty and dissuade attackers). So I'd never agree to go fighting in any other alliance's systems on any Wednesday/Friday or Saturday evening, due to the fact that I do tend to logoff wherever I am in order to go out.
By all means, get CCP to beef up probes so you can find people easier in your own systems. Get some system of sentry guns. But don't stop people being able to logoff and disappear no matter what, or you'll really kill attacking in the game.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Xaarist
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:24:00 -
[9]
if that idea will get into the game there will be no more raids deep into enemy territory, at least not without the use of speed or amphetamine to keep one awake for 80 hours.
eve is a game and the good thing about a game is the ability to just leave the PC and do something in RL. if you could be scanned down in that period of time when u're unable to log in to EVE that would ruin the whole pvp thing for many people.
i know this is not your intention behind your idea, but the means you propose will hit that as well. login traps are bad and considered an exploit if proven (fraps 4TW). loggin in and out in enemy territory is vital part of the game.
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(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is an alien dressed as Bunny to secretly gain world domination. |
Ibobah'k Chisaraj
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:25:00 -
[10]
This thing shouldve made it onto tq yesterday but with soooo many issues EVE carries around already ...
Yes, make ships stay in space no matter why or where the pilot logs off unless its at a station. Let common sense prevail at least once and have players adapt THEIR tactics instead of adapting the game to the players - infallably resulting in crappy carebear game play balancing poo.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:25:00 -
[11]
Have to agree with Rodge.
Beef up probes, remove them from scanner, remove covops from local, and let's keep the dissapearing act like it is.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rodge
I've experienced both sides of this. I've been the invader running from the Blob that forms, I've been the defender listening to the enemy smalktalking while sitting at deep safespots and constantly moving between different safespots.
I don't believe that allowing ships to stay indefinitely is any answer at all. It will dissuade people from ever attacking any alliance's space (which I'm sure lots of people would actually like). There's a little thing called RL that sometimes interferes with Eve, and means that people have to log off at short notice. If I ever get an emergency "Lets go to the pub for a couple of pints" phone call, I don't want to have to reply "Sorry, I have to move back 15 jumps or else I'll definitely be dead tomorrow" (lets be serious, if this did come in then alliances would put POSs in EVERY system, just to claim sovreignty and dissuade attackers). So I'd never agree to go fighting in any other alliance's systems on any Wednesday/Friday or Saturday evening, due to the fact that I do tend to logoff wherever I am in order to go out.
By all means, get CCP to beef up probes so you can find people easier in your own systems. Get some system of sentry guns. But don't stop people being able to logoff and disappear no matter what, or you'll really kill attacking in the game.
But this would only be in systems with sovereignty. WTB alliance space where every single system has a POS in it 
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Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Oninous
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Posted - 2005.11.29 11:36:00 -
[13]
/signed
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Cilppiz
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Posted - 2005.11.29 12:19:00 -
[14]
Otherwise this sounds good but then CCP would have to include some feature where one can lock his ship so that it stays inside POS forcefield when you logoff. It would be absurd that one couldnt logoff safely in system where you have POS.
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BobCba
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Posted - 2005.11.29 12:23:00 -
[15]
excellent idea
/signed.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.11.29 12:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Rodge
I've experienced both sides of this. I've been the invader running from the Blob that forms, I've been the defender listening to the enemy smalktalking while sitting at deep safespots and constantly moving between different safespots.
I don't believe that allowing ships to stay indefinitely is any answer at all. It will dissuade people from ever attacking any alliance's space (which I'm sure lots of people would actually like). There's a little thing called RL that sometimes interferes with Eve, and means that people have to log off at short notice. If I ever get an emergency "Lets go to the pub for a couple of pints" phone call, I don't want to have to reply "Sorry, I have to move back 15 jumps or else I'll definitely be dead tomorrow" (lets be serious, if this did come in then alliances would put POSs in EVERY system, just to claim sovreignty and dissuade attackers). So I'd never agree to go fighting in any other alliance's systems on any Wednesday/Friday or Saturday evening, due to the fact that I do tend to logoff wherever I am in order to go out.
By all means, get CCP to beef up probes so you can find people easier in your own systems. Get some system of sentry guns. But don't stop people being able to logoff and disappear no matter what, or you'll really kill attacking in the game.
But this would only be in systems with sovereignty. WTB alliance space where every single system has a POS in it
Check the delve map.
Noone, literally, that is unfriendly to BoB would be able to log in that region, anywhere in it...if they wouldn't have a pos with them...
playability ?
probes can answer this problem too, and more while at it.
Use that solution, not this false one.
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kebab v2
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Posted - 2005.11.29 12:47:00 -
[17]
Its not a bad idea but i can see problems with it like would a ship which logs while its cloaked be detectable? no.
this forces all attackers too lose a high slot if they want too log in space(harassment behind enemy lines) this makes sence.
a big fleet could drop a small pos too log in, safe spot for a while at least.
It could also open up some intersting tactics, enemy fleet enters your system(duh) and friendly fleet blockades the gates, deadend systems become deathtraps
"I made this sig while i should of been working" |
So'Kar
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Posted - 2005.11.29 12:59:00 -
[18]
Edited by: So''Kar on 29/11/2005 13:03:52
That would be bad when you lag out. If log in traps are problem how about make it so that when yuo log in someone else sovereign space it takes 5 minutes to jump where you were and then another 5 minutes before you could active any modules or something like that? Player lagging out in enemy space could still try safe hes ship later, but log in traps wouldnt be so effective.
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Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:05:00 -
[19]
Good idea, although I would like to take it one step further. Ships should never ever disappear from space. If you are unlucky and your ISP goes down, tough luck. Lag kills us all from time to time.
Disconnects when on a mission or in a complex could still work like today I guess, but disconnects in 0.0 should not safe warp you away in my opinion.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: So'Kar
Edited by: So''Kar on 29/11/2005 13:07:45
That would be bad when you lag out. If log in traps are problem how about make it so that when you log in someone else sovereign space it takes 5 minutes to jump where you were and then another 5 minutes before you could active any modules or something like that? Player lagging out in enemy space could still try safe hes ship later, but log in traps wouldnt be so effective.
Ships already take 15 minutes to disappear... (with the PvP timer).
Raids will still be easily possible. They'll just require some actual forethought.
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Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Franky B
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: TheKiller8
Personally the only place where I think a player should be safe is docked in a station. Ships should not disappear in space at all under any circumstance. Charging into hostile space, wreaking havoc and then simply logging off when you get pinned down with bubbles is not only lame but simply doesn't make sense. If people suddenly have to leave or get disconnected it should be at the cost of them, not their enemies. Want to remain safe? Fit a cloaking device or just dock.
I log off at my pos as the closest station is 7 odd jumps away. thats a shiny ishtar thats in the middle of space (1m km away from the safety of a pos forcefield.) maybe if there was an option NOT to warp away...
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TheKiller8
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rodge
*lots of text*
Man I'm sure your enemies wouldn't mind you attacking their space and then logging off in their capital so you can have a good time with your friends. I think you should do the 15 jumps to dock or fit that cloaking device. Or put up a military pos in hostile space and log off there.
If you disconnect because your ISP craps on you, well then it sucks to be you. Hostiles shouldn't be deprived off their kill just because your ISP enjoys spilling coffee on their equipment.
When you're stuck in a safe spot with a hostile force roaming the system, Ctrl+Q, shouldn't be an option unless you have a station or POS to hide in or a cloaking device.
Hell, they probably put the 'ship disappear after logout' thing in to release server stress rather than to help players since back then we didn't have scan probes. But now we do and having hostiles disappear in your backyard makes as much sense as me robbing a bank and then walking out when the police arrive saying 'sorry my girl just called i gotta go'.
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:38:00 -
[23]
I think this idea is largely pointless, as it doesnt lend much value to sovereignty, and does place a complete bind on what you can do in the game, dictated by RL circumstances.
To make sovereignty valuable, give the one thing that is important - intel. Remove pilots in space and blobs on the map, entirely, EXCEPT where you own sovereignty. Simple enough, your space, you know wahts going on.
---:::---
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TheKiller8
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Franky B
I log off at my pos as the closest station is 7 odd jumps away. thats a shiny ishtar thats in the middle of space (1m km away from the safety of a pos forcefield.) maybe if there was an option NOT to warp away...
I'm sure that if CCP were to actually remove the disappear-crap they would be smart enough to change the system so you can keep your ship inside the POS field when you leave.
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TheKiller8
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: El Yatta
I think this idea is largely pointless, as it doesnt lend much value to sovereignty, and does place a complete bind on what you can do in the game, dictated by RL circumstances.
To make sovereignty valuable, give the one thing that is important - intel. Remove pilots in space and blobs on the map, entirely, EXCEPT where you own sovereignty. Simple enough, your space, you know wahts going on.
Actually a while I ago I made a suggestion that new POS modules should be implemented that help gather intelligence. I mean in deadspace we already have the nice
Quote:
Radio Telescope
This huge radio telescope contains fragile but advanced sensory equipment. A structure such as this has enormous capabilities in crunching survey data from nearby systems and constellations.
Would be nice to actually own one of those and make it do something like:
- detect players in all systems within a certain radius of the telescope
- detect shiptypes within a certain smaller radius
- detect shiplocations within the telescope's system
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:52:00 -
[26]
CCP have stated in the past (when I was asking for somethng like this) that complete peristency of ships in space is not an option.
period
/ends thread
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
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aeti
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:55:00 -
[27]
ill rather have sov give a -50% scan probe scan time for the owners or something
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TheKiller8
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Posted - 2005.11.29 13:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
CCP have stated in the past (when I was asking for somethng like this) that complete peristency of ships in space is not an option.
period
/ends thread
They had no problems increasing it to 15 minutes for pvp. Why not increase it again, for all situations? Hell even an hour would be prefferable.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.11.29 14:17:00 -
[29]
It's all fine and dandy.
Aslong as someone who logs off at a POS while on PvP Timer is warped out of the POS, where he can be scanned down, all this is null and void. We were told that if you had to log off while in hostile space one should bring a POS when the Timer was introduced.
Atleast make it work properly.
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2005.11.29 14:24:00 -
[30]
Quote:
We're also now able to have structures that will require you to have sovereignty over the system. This opens things up for us to introduce more benefits than just fuel reduction in the future, but some of these things are in the early planning stages.
Dev blog
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