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Crularii
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.06.30 12:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, what's the status here? I thought they aren't allowed anymore in those DEDs since Odyssey? Did a Gurista Vigil today and saw a Loki entering the second pocket.
Anyone care to enlighten me? |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
429
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Posted - 2013.06.30 12:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vigil is not a DED-rated site.
The DED 3/10 for Gurista is the Guristas Guerilla Grounds and the 4/10 is the Guristas Scout Outpost. Vigils and Watches are unrated combat sites. |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
29
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Posted - 2013.06.30 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
You are anwering the question yourself in the OP. Vigil is not a DED rated complex. |
Crularii
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.06.30 12:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
And I thought Vigil was a 3/10, my fault. Thanks for the clarification. |
Evil D4rk
Frag Executors ROMANIAN-LEGION
1
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Posted - 2013.06.30 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm just guessing here but I think vigil is not a ded rated site. Just putting that out there. ;) |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1480
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Posted - 2013.06.30 14:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Evil D4rk wrote:I'm just guessing here but I think vigil is not a ded rated site. Just putting that out there. ;)
I'm just guessing here, but I'm gonna say you didn't bother reading the replies that came before you. Just putting that out there. |
Falaricae
Proffessional Experts Group
4
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Posted - 2013.06.30 14:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
IIRC the list of rated DED sites does not actually include gurista vigil. |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2013.06.30 15:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't think the Vigil is a rated DED site. |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
30
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Posted - 2013.06.30 15:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maybe it is secretly rated as a 5/10, but CCP won't tell us, because "sekritGäó". This is an outrage! To the forums!
oh, derp, am already here. Nevermind..move along, nothing to see here. |
Evil D4rk
Frag Executors ROMANIAN-LEGION
1
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Posted - 2013.06.30 21:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Czeris wrote:I don't think the Vigil is a rated DED site.
I'm just guessing here, but I'm gonna say you didn't bother reading the replies that came before you. Just putting that out there. |
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Blue Absinthe
Fur Industries
10
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Posted - 2013.06.30 22:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
A Vigil and is an unrated site, and so doesn't fall under the ship restrictions of the DED sites. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8758
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Posted - 2013.07.01 02:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mark my words, it's already begun. Players complaining about T3's in high sec unrated combat sites will soon prompt CCP into swinging the ole nerf bat once again, thus making T3's unable to access those sites as well..
DMC |
Crularii
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.07.01 05:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Can only speak for myself, it wasn't my intention to try and get them further nerfed. I can finish those sites in my Ishtar faster than a T3 anyway. At least in most cases. Was really only curious, as I thought Vigils were 3/10s. Which they aren't btw., in case anyone still wonders........ what did I start here ;-) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8758
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Posted - 2013.07.01 06:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
No Problem, I just wanted to throw that out there.
Anyway, giving a rate to high sec Unrated Combat sites like the DED sites, I'd place them in this order :
Hideout = level / DED 1/10 Lookout = level / DED 2/10 Watch = level / DED 3/10 Vigil = level / DED 4/10
DMC |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
333
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Posted - 2013.07.02 12:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:No Problem, I just wanted to throw that out there.
Anyway, giving a rate to high sec Unrated Combat sites like the DED sites, I'd place them in this order :
Hideout = level / DED 1/10 Lookout = level / DED 2/10 Watch = level / DED 3/10 Vigil = level / DED 4/10
DMC
Worth noting that these are equivalency ratings, in terms of difficulty. That's likely what confused the OP; the evelopedia probably lists vigil with a rating because people are dumb.
Okay. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1484
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Posted - 2013.07.02 13:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Evil D4rk wrote:Czeris wrote:I don't think the Vigil is a rated DED site. I'm just guessing here, but I'm gonna say you didn't bother reading the replies that came before you. Just putting that out there.
That's extra funny coming from you. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
1
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Posted - 2013.07.03 08:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
They don't need to nerf the ships they just need to lock the gate behind them for a specific period of time; say 5 minutes. That way, the first person in gets a nice headstart. Do it for each stage or make it so there is a ship that respawns in each room that contains a gate key to access the next room; call it the gatekeeper or something. Just play it off like the accel gate needs to recharge it's capacitors after each use, thereby limiting it to once every 5 minutes. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
333
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Posted - 2013.07.03 12:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thats a terrible idea. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
197
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Posted - 2013.07.03 12:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:They don't need to nerf the ships they just need to lock the gate behind them for a specific period of time; say 5 minutes. That way, the first person in gets a nice headstart. Do it for each stage or make it so there is a ship that respawns in each room that contains a gate key to access the next room; call it the gatekeeper or something. Just play it off like the accel gate needs to recharge it's capacitors after each use, thereby limiting it to once every 5 minutes.
Most all of the ded sites were originally public statics, ie they were meant to be causing contention. I personally don't race other players if they found the site first, and I wish em luck if the character is young, but i'm completely aware that my particular character trait should never be more than a character trait, and it should absolutely not be part of the game mechanics.
A lot of people ought to think themselves very lucky ded 4s aren't gone from highsec.
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Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
1
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Posted - 2013.07.03 15:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Thats a terrible idea.
Well currently they are changing gate restrictions and nerfing ships to accomplish a similar result. Instead of indirectly making changes to pve competition, why not do it directly? Are you of the opinion that banning T3 cruisers from 3/10 and 4/10 ded plexes, which includes low-sec, was a good idea? You will find whole threads of people who don't agree that change should have effected low-sec plex runners; only high-sec where the perceived problem was. |
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XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
333
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Posted - 2013.07.03 16:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP's adjustments were intended to limit particular ships, not players, and by so doing keep out the "easy mode" T3s, thus giving others who don't have the sp/isk a chance to compete. Now the results of this...eh. T2 cruisers are still quite effective farming ships and will easily outpace younger players.
Nevertheless, your suggestion basically creates 5 minute instances in which players are 100% unable to interact with other players. This is terrible.
And the only people crying about low sec are the ones full of fear that want to be able to safely run DED 4/10 in a cloakie, scanning T3. So yeah, their opinions don't really matter to me. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
333
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Posted - 2013.07.03 16:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tauranon wrote: A lot of people ought to think themselves very lucky ded 4s aren't gone from highsec.
Agreed. I'm sure CCP considered removing them from high sec. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
6
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Posted - 2013.07.04 09:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:CCP's adjustments were intended to limit particular ships, not players, and by so doing keep out the "easy mode" T3s, thus giving others who don't have the sp/isk a chance to compete. Now the results of this...eh. T2 cruisers are still quite effective farming ships and will easily outpace younger players.
Nevertheless, your suggestion basically creates 5 minute instances in which players are 100% unable to interact with other players. This is terrible.
And the only people crying about low sec are the ones full of fear that want to be able to safely run DED 4/10 in a cloakie, scanning T3. So yeah, their opinions don't really matter to me.
I don't see how a T2 and T3 cruiser vary much in the way of SP required to effectively fly them. I actually think the T3 was more noob friendly in the way of SPs. Now the advantage has been tilted in favor of high sp T2 ships/support skills and expensive mods to compensate for lower ship bonuses; or the equally as expensive pirate ships. This doesn't affect me as I already trained HAC to 5 and have the income to deadspace/faction fit them. By your logic, CCP should remove stations from the game; they also prevent player interaction, except for indefinite lengths of time. |
Jonas Staal
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.07.04 10:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:XXSketchxx wrote:CCP's adjustments were intended to limit particular ships, not players, and by so doing keep out the "easy mode" T3s, thus giving others who don't have the sp/isk a chance to compete. Now the results of this...eh. T2 cruisers are still quite effective farming ships and will easily outpace younger players.
Nevertheless, your suggestion basically creates 5 minute instances in which players are 100% unable to interact with other players. This is terrible.
I agree, T2 ships will still outpace younger players. The cost of T2 ships, rigs and fittings that farmers will be using will still be on par with lessor fitted T3 ships. Higher SP and better financed toons will always outpace poorer, lower SP ones in these activities.
Is it not normal that someone with maxxed skills in the combat/scanning deparment does better than a new player?
If DEVs want old players out of ded3's and ded4's, DEVs should've removed the 100-500mil drops rather than remove certain ships from said sites. |
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
7
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote: Is it not normal that someone with maxxed skills in the combat/scanning deparment does better than a new player?
If DEVs want old players out of ded3's and ded4's, DEVs should've removed the 100-500mil drops rather than remove certain ships from said sites.
As the value of the drops is determined by the supply/demand of/for them, I suggest increasing the number of those sites. Pith A-C items for cruiser sized hulls and below could benefit from a price reduction. It would bring it more in line with dead space armor mods and liven up the pvp scene with people willing to risk better fitted ships. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote:
By your logic, CCP should remove stations from the game; they also prevent player interaction, except for indefinite lengths of time.
Please tell me you're serious. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
334
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Posted - 2013.07.04 21:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
If you really need me to spell it out for you:
there should never be a point in this game where you can avoid player interaction while actively playing the game. Even when you are station trading (i.e. in the comfort of the station) you are interacting with other players via the market.
What you have proposed is a means for players to completely be free of player interaction and have a 5 minute window where in they can profit without any sort of competition.
That is terrible. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote: If DEVs want old players out of ded3's and ded4's, DEVs should've removed the 100-500mil drops rather than remove certain ships from said sites.
Its a player run economy you fool. The devs don't set the price, the players do. The simple fact is that those modules support certain metas within the game and thus have greater value than other modules.
Thats not to say its perfect. Armor modules across the 3 armor races having identical stats ultimately results in greater supply than the shield loot (especially since gurista and angel shield loot is different). You essentially have a 3:1 ratio of armor loot supply to shield loot supply. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cryo Kool wrote: As the value of the drops is determined by the supply/demand of/for them, I suggest increasing the number of those sites. Pith/Gist A-C items for cruiser sized hulls and below could benefit from a price reduction. It would bring it more in line with dead space armor mods and liven up the pvp scene with people willing to risk better fitted ships.
Adjusting the number of sites is the wrong way to go. You simply have to accept there will be particularly metas in a game of balance and this will result in some things being of higher value than others. It also means space isn't equal, which is a good thing. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8945
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:If you really need me to spell it out for you:
there should never be a point in this game where you can avoid player interaction while actively playing the game. Even when you are station trading (i.e. in the comfort of the station) you are interacting with other players via the market.
What you have proposed is a means for players to completely be free of player interaction and have a 5 minute window where in they can profit without any sort of competition.
That is terrible. Players who run expeditions can do that. The expedition sites can't be scanned and if the player fits a cloak, sets up safe spots and watches D-scan, no other player can interact with him.
Oh, wait, you're gonna say that setting up safe spots, cloaking, watching D-scan, etc. is due to player interaction.
lol, never mind.
DMC |
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