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Disco Doug
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
/puts helmet on, cause this is gonna get rough.
I would really like to see external killboards (aka "PVP Surveillance") be brought down - eve-kill, battleclinic, etc. (nothing against their owners or developers at ALL).
Why?
It would remove the ego. People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat. Less likely (more specifically "less incentivized") to do things which artificially pad and inflate numbers to make their internet ***** appear bigger.
Additional points:
- Intel : This would force players to perform more in-game actual reconnaissance instead of KB lurking.
- Information : This would increase the value of information sharing among strangers, allies, and enemies alike - being that easy acquisition of an enemy's doctrines, location of operations, and other information available on KBs would be eliminated.
- Interest : A combination of the above two points - if this additional "tool" were abolished, smart FCs, CEOs, etc. would take full advantage of the blackout on PVP surveillance...
- Purity - I predict a slight to moderate change in philosophy and attitude toward PVP combat - specifically 0.0. To many, killboard numbers mean everything - and players, corps, and alliances obsess pedantically over meaningless statistics. This proposed change would eliminate that stress and shift focus to what really matters in EVE like NO other game - reputation, dominance, control, and power. With no arbitrary, unreliable list of statistics, what is there to display? KB numbers are one thing - sovereignty, dominance, and control are actions over words and speak loudly.
Overall I believe this would be a beneficial attitude adjustment. Keep the in-game killmail system for personal reflection or boasting, but killboards need to go, IMO.
*Pelvic thrust*
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Alara IonStorm
5191
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
No score keeping means everybody wins.  |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5363
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is no way you can bring them down though, so there really isn't any point to this. |
Disco Doug
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:There is no way you can bring them down though, so there really isn't any point to this.
Well with that attitude, negative nancy!
The score is on the sovereignty map - not in artificially bloated stats.
It's like wearing a t-shirt with ripped muscles printed on it.
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Elvis Fett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
201
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Posted - 2013.07.02 05:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:No score keeping means everybody wins.
Does everybody get a trophy too? |
Istyn
Freight Club
Whores in space
215
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disco Doug wrote:
It's like wearing a t-shirt with ripped muscles printed on it.
I do this while looking at my killboard stats every half hour and flexing.
What is your point?
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
1162
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Disco Doug wrote:It would remove the ego. People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat. Less likely (more specifically "less incentivized") to do things which artificially pad and inflate numbers to make their internet ***** appear bigger.
please elaborate on what you perceive to be the problem |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5363
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Disco Doug wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:There is no way you can bring them down though, so there really isn't any point to this. Well with that attitude, negative nancy! The score is on the sovereignty map - not in artificially bloated stats. It's like wearing a t-shirt with ripped muscles printed on it.
Attitude is irrelevant. The only way to achieve anything like what you want is, if CCP would prevent that information from being created in the first place. Once it's created and send to the participants it will be pooled to a killboard without CCP having any say in the matter. It's an all or nothing deal, and since there are great reasons for having records about ship kills, killboards are the natural and inevitable outcome of it. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Actually EvE needs is something like Armory or the BF series statistics.
Been addicted to stats since I played BF2142, and prefer them (my bias).
Compromise can be they are private (or can be made private, like EQII allows).
The reason they exist is for players to review how they perform among peers. IF they were private stats, the epeening that happens with Armory and the BF stats would be eliminated, yet still preserve their function.
I like to know if my RoF and all reaction times is on par with others. To measure areas that need either more skills and/or training. In games like WoW (or even EQII) there's addons that help with that, so you can always improve and see what to improve. Gaming is always about testing yourself and proving yourself, and we need more of those tools in EvE -- THE spreadsheet game.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
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Ben Vereton
The Scope
Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.07.02 05:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't have much to say on PvP but, if nothing else, you have shown me what could possibly be the greatest way to end a post ever |
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 05:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:There is no way you can bring them down though, so there really isn't any point to this.
Oh, CCP can.
It's called breaking the API that feeds the info.
Don't want that info out, adjust the API and any API function depended on it dries up instantly.
That's how Blizzard kills addons and offsite reporting.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
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Anubis Joringer
Hot Caldari Babes
22
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Posted - 2013.07.02 06:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why do I get the feeling that OP is on some really embarrassing killmail somewhere and doesn't want us to see it? |
Setsune Rin
Bite Me inc
Bitten.
35
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
i...would actually not be opposed to this
but that would involve removing killmails from the game, would make the meta a lot more interesting. but at what cost?
comedy killmails.....thats a major entertainment source man |
0Lona 0ltor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population. |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
159
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:There is no way you can bring them down though, so there really isn't any point to this.
This is true.
CCP do not control external KBs. |
Sol Kal'orr
TLSG
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Disco Doug wrote:/It would remove the ego.
[snip]
*Pelvic thrust*
I like the ego element of EVE. Kinda goes hand-in-hand with the whole hyper-competitive vibe. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
5636
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Disco Doug wrote:The score is on the sovereignty map
Except not everyone plays the sov game.
Besides, as with muscled t-shirts, it's pretty easy to tell when someone has artificially bloated their kill stats.
-áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
5636
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:There is no way you can bring them down though, so there really isn't any point to this.
Well strictly speaking it would be extremely easy to do so.
Simply remove killmails from the API and also remove the ability within the client to copy killmails into text format.
Killboards would then require screenshots of the actual kill report to have any validity, and the sheer effort required to do this would make running or using a killboard completely impractical.
-áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 08:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population.
 
Couldn't do that in WoW, that game is too big and democratic for a GM to tilt the favor to any guild or group. Blizzard could be in bed with Dream Paragon, even buff them, the fallout of that favoritism would screech the game to a halt...with the largest protests in gaming with all the media attention a #1 game can produce.
If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. Those who continue drop millions of dollars worth of development like a hot potato. The Art department gets ***** slapped hard in the process (and you don't want to lose them to competitors).
If devs tell their players to "l2p" millions leave the game. As players revolt against devs that are that arrogant. Ask John Romero how to sink a franchise overnight. Or Ghostcrawler, who sat in his Ivory Tower for half of Cata after all those death threats...if he even stepped on the forums he knew he'd be burned alive.
If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it.
Don't repeat it!
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
242
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 09:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Disco Doug wrote:/puts helmet on, cause this is gonna get rough.
I would really like to see external killboards (aka "PVP Surveillance") be brought down - eve-kill, battleclinic, etc. (nothing against their owners or developers at ALL).
Why?
It would remove the ego.
So.... what did you lose that you don't want people to see?
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Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
6989
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 09:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
I've worked hard to make my killboard ******.
if you take that away from me, the chances of there being a hisec wardec corp dumb enough to fall for it are reduced even further.
don't ruin my already next-to-zero chances of completely humiliating a dumb wardec corp.
You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it?
Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Cyrek Ohaya
Perkone
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 09:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd like to see the game improved this way, but seems the cancer won't be gone anytime soon, either deal with that or choose another game. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
96
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 09:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Why does it bother you that people admire their epeen?
If it is a silly thing for them to do, you should chuckle to your self softly about their quaint little obsessions.
Does the fact that they enjoy having a big epeen threaten you even though you don't want a big epeen....
....
.... is it that .. "people shouldn't be happy about things I don't think are important.. I want to take away their abilitly to feel special because no-one should feel special ... the fact they feel special is a threat to me because if they think they're better than me"
and maybe " people acting like they are better than me threatens my own self esteem because my self esteem isn't independent but depends on other people's regard for me".
Grow a set... I mispell and people can try to rattle me all I want but .. ya know.. while it is truly a combination of a disconect between when my mind moves onto the next though and the speed my fingers can go.. (I can't slow my free association nor can I speed my fingers)....
.. . I don't really care.. because.. I don't have a boss .. I've earned money in the world buying and selling things... sometimes I unfortunately had clients that I was accountable to and I had a duty (personal) to stay on top of.... but the best life is without employees or clients or bosses... your only gage of sucess is .. "did I like what I did today"
and..... what other people did has nothing to do with whether I enjoyed my hike or the sunset or if the financial report and 10ks and conference calls I listened to gave me any buzz from learning something new... curioustity.. .. thats what I live on ..... the reward of thining of something I hadn't thought o
or hearing an opinion someone has that is completely assinine but sort of fun because it was a new thought....
thats how I gage my day....
Free your self from the bonds of social approval and march to the beat of your own drummer...... enjoy things people do as an intellectual and an anthropologist and their admiring of the epeen becomes something interesting.
To try to gain some perspective... try to role play their perspective... be a chameleon and pretend you have a big epeen and admire it... ... did it feel good ?
lollllllllllllllllll
Common.. your self worth shouldn't be determined by others. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
343
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 09:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cyrek Ohaya wrote:I'd like to see the game improved this way, but seems the cancer won't be gone anytime soon, either deal with that or choose another game.
Like what game?
One on life support? Or the 800lb gorilla game that's equally messed up?
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Sex Slave Girl
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 10:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think the OP is a awoxer. He wants his history records removed. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
96
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 10:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quick blurb about a pivotal time I freed myself.
I went to a top U.S. university.. one that people with all A's and top 5% test scores don't always get into. One with many nobel laurettes.
I was there to learn.. not to be judged. I didn't need to get grades.. i wasn't going to go to graduate school. I did like to TRY to get good grades on TESTS... sometimes I didn't hand in a paper worth 30 % of the grade because... well you can see typing isn't my forte.. or proof reading and we didn't hardly have computers and teachers wouldn't accept the papers in dot matrix form anyway and you'd need to retype the stuff. And
I came to realize that some teachers would fail me for learning on my own terms.
Some would give me an A based on what I did turn in and ignore what wasn't there (they probably thought they lost it if I was a good enough student to do well on the blue book exams... whether in geometry, rhetoric, art history , or cultural geography.
Some would fail me for not turning in what I didnt' feel like.
That was their prerogative.
MY SOLUTION.. I took 6 classes instead of 5 That way I got to learn even more interesting stuff, and if some teacher wasn't cooperative and failed me, I'd still have enough units to graduate in time..
Using the "do what I felt like" (but I always enjoyed all the reading and the lectures....... and I did want to prove I could do well on the tests but was indifferent about turning in neat complete work on projects)
I'd get an A (i'd set the curve in my Business and Cultural geography classes which were often test only) in one or two. A B- or C in a couple, a D- in one and fail one... each of my last 4 semesters. The 6 class when I only needed 5 was the charm.
Like I said... I learned about more things.. it was all great fun because learning is fun... but if I wasn't interested or they assigned tedious things and didn't cut enough slack on what wasn't turned in I had insurance.
That.. is how you learn to utterly free yourself from the burdens of other's approval.. you set your own rules and become indifferent to the standards of others.
(and yes.. if i need to type business letters or lease terms I can do so with good grammar if I put my mind to it... I prefer letting my thoughts flow more Kerouac style..) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
359
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 10:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:It would remove the ego. People would be far less likely to commit acts that diminish interesting gameplay and PVP combat.
How is stupidity interesting gameplay? Furthermore, how is removing an incentive to PvP going to lead to more PvP, as that statement suggests?
Anyway, this has probably already been mentioned, but this is EVE. People will figure out a way to do it anyway. Even if you somehow figure out a way that they can remove the API keys that they use for internal killmails (yep, that's how they do it) without breaking the game.
And, as someone said, this also lets awoxing have free reign over the entire game. It would literally de-evolve into an awoxing, holding corporation cold war. That is, if, as would be inevitable, people didn't find a way around it anyway.
So the answer is, three different ways, no. Data is good.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
0Lona 0ltor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 11:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:0Lona 0ltor wrote:CCP were planning on doing an internal points board in conjunction with the new kill reports but it was harshly brought to a halt when it was pointed out that this would make reimbursements public. Something CCP is very against as it would easily reveal the corruption that is entrentched within the GM population. Couldn't do that in WoW, that game is too big and democratic for a GM to tilt the favor to any guild or group. Blizzard could be in bed with Dream Paragon, even buff them, the fallout of that favoritism would screech the game to a halt...with the largest protests in gaming with all the media attention a #1 game can produce. If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. Those who continue drop millions of dollars worth of development like a hot potato. The Art department gets ***** slapped hard in the process (and you don't want to lose them to competitors). If devs tell their players to "l2p" millions leave the game. As players revolt against devs that are that arrogant. Ask John Romero how to sink a franchise overnight. Or Ghostcrawler, who sat in his Ivory Tower for half of Cata after all those death threats...if he even stepped on the forums he knew he'd be burned alive. If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it.Don't repeat it!
Woah, ''If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. '' don't turn this into a T2BPO thread because T2BPO's are totally fair and new players can compete with them through invention |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
344
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 11:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:Woah, ''If a game is rigged, and players see the carrot is inaccessible to them they quit. '' don't turn this into a T2BPO thread because T2BPO's are totally fair and new players can compete with them through invention
lol
Players quit when they see there's nothing to show for what they worked for. Waste of time and money. They quit faster if they're helped, and knowing the devs aren't impartial, helps to usher them out the door faster.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
|
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 11:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
The score is on the sovereignty map - not in artificially bloated stats.
So as someone who doesn't give a flying f**k about sovereignty where does that leave me? :)
I like having kill boards, mine an't great, but i'm proud of it even if eve-kill doesn't link related kills properly. It helps me remember my mistakes :) |
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