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Hyku P'tiboo
Interstellar Geographic Society
4
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Posted - 2013.07.03 08:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like the exploration but I find data and relic sites to be rather scarce. So to have some fun I'd like to be able to run the combat sites (either those already there or those I find myself -if there is any difference in quality between them) too.
So I'm looking for a ship that allows me to run data/relic and combat sites. I was thinking about the Gnosis for the probe strength bonus, and dps bonuses. But I wonder if it would be effective.
For hi sec explo : isn't the Gnosis a bit expensive for that ? For low sec explo : am I not becoming a prize with a target on my forhead ?
I know that jacks of all trade are pretty much always master of none. What other ship would you recommend for such activities ? Strategic Cruiser, while very interesting, seem way to expensive for my line of work.
Some people have mentioned Ishtar as well. I'm minmatar so would the Munnin be a possibility ?
Any thoughts guys ?
P.S: maybe such a ship doesn't exist and I would have to swap out ship each time I find one or the other site.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5391
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Posted - 2013.07.03 08:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Strategic cruiser is the best for everything except highsec. DED sites in HS won't allow them anymore, so they're increasingly useless there. Keep in mind, that most highsec combat sites also won't allow battlecruisers to enter, so the ship choice is largely determined by what sites you're willing to ignore. A BC isn't a bad choice though, since the best sites do allow them(DED 4/10, vigils and watches) and a downgrade to a cruiser will only add the 3/10 DED sites to that list. They're nice, but worse then 4/10s and many of them won't allow MWDs to work, so ship fitted for them is often less competitive compared to ships which ignore 3/10s. The other worthwhile combat sites are meant for frigates or destroyers, which aren't suited to be all-in-one ships and the sites are inferior anyway.
As for actual ship recommendation besides T3s. In highsec almost everything, that can access the sites can work. A gnosis would probably be good, as would most battlecruiser-class ships and the Ishtar is very good almost anywhere in K-space. Most HACs and pirate cruisers make for good highsec explorers in general. The thing I hate about Ishtar is the drones though. Herding them can grow to be very annoying because their AI is suspect at best and the drone interface is ancient and it wasn't good to begin with. Doing the same sites with a turret based ship is just so much more convenient and enjoyable. |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
923
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Posted - 2013.07.03 09:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Strategic cruiser is the best for everything except highsec. DED sites in HS won't allow them anymore, so they're increasingly useless there. Keep in mind, that most highsec combat sites also won't allow battlecruisers to enter, so the ship choice is largely determined by what sites you're willing to ignore. A BC isn't a bad choice though, since the best sites do allow them(DED 4/10, vigils and watches) and a downgrade to a cruiser will only add the 3/10 DED sites to that list. They're nice, but worse then 4/10s and many of them won't allow MWDs to work, so ship fitted for them is often less competitive compared to ships which ignore 3/10s. The other worthwhile combat sites are meant for frigates or destroyers, which aren't suited to be all-in-one ships and the sites are inferior anyway.
As for actual ship recommendation besides T3s. In highsec almost everything, that can access the sites can work. A gnosis would probably be good, as would most battlecruiser-class ships and the Ishtar is very good almost anywhere in K-space. Most HACs and pirate cruisers make for good highsec explorers in general. The thing I hate about Ishtar is the drones though. Herding them can grow to be very annoying because their AI is suspect at best and the drone interface is ancient and it wasn't good to begin with. Doing the same sites with a turret based ship is just so much more convenient and enjoyable.
As strange as this might look at the first gist, Gnosis is good at doing both and eve Onyx is capable of while delivering far more dps than a cloak nulli T3 and still get a huge tank.
There are many options around but at some point the cloak sub on T3's makes them interesting, nulli I don't use it because I'm a special nerd who likes mdw/cloak stuff and is clearly enough to move all around without getting caught if you do it right (happens but welp ships are made to blow up so no big deal) *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Whitehound
1499
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Posted - 2013.07.03 09:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Trying to do all in one ship always leads to compromises. You need two med-slots for the analyzers and a high-slot for the probe launcher, if not a second high-slot for the cloak when you leave high-sec.
I prefer drone boats, because they end up having the most DPS.
[Vexor, Exploration]
Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Cap Recharger II
Core Probe Launcher I Prototype Cloaking Device I 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M
Medium Emission Scope Sharpener I Medium Memetic Algorithm Bank I [Empty Rig slot]
Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
With a drone combo of 1x light, 2x medium and 2x heavy plus the two railguns does it produce 540 DPS max.
You can fly and shoot cap stable. Only when you turn the armor repairer on do you have 2-3min before you run out of cap. This is usually enough. Just keep your transversal speed up and you might not have to use it at all. You can fit an MWD if you prefer, PG/CPU is enough left, but an AB will reduce missiles damage without increasing your signature.
You could also exchange the MAR II for the Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer I and use it without Nano Paste and only load it when you get tackled.
The two rigs will give you +10 each to virus coherence for data and relic sites and use 200 calibration each, which is why there is not a third rig. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Trying to do all in one ship always leads to compromises. You need two med-slots for the analyzers and a high-slot for the probe launcher, if not a second high-slot for the cloak when you leave high-sec.
I prefer drone boats, because they end up having the most DPS.
[Vexor, Exploration]
You can`t do any lowsec combat sites in this fit. You could use navy vexor and stuff it with sentries and lights, then you will be able to do atleast 4/10, but thats it. |

Hyku P'tiboo
Interstellar Geographic Society
4
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Posted - 2013.07.03 12:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for all the insight guys.
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Whitehound
1500
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Posted - 2013.07.03 13:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fr00b Snap wrote:You can`t do any lowsec combat sites in this fit. If you want to give answers then do not give them to me but give them to the OP.
And by the way, you are wrong when you think you cannot use it in low-sec. Many high-sec escalations lead you into low-sec and the Vexor is just fine for doing exploration in high-sec and low-sec.
If you have a better suggestion, a fitting, a ship, etc. then please do post it.
And please do not tell me you cannot do everything with it or that it cannot fight a Ferox or that it cannot crash gate camps or that it cannot single-handedly wipe out 0.0 fleets. It get this kind of crap a lot lately. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Delucian
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
48
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Posted - 2013.07.03 14:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vexor/Navy Vexor/Ishtar (IMO) are the very best of do it all ships.
If you want something that works stupidly well for HS combat sites (any and all of them), try this. For 90% of the sites you can split the missile launchers into 2 groups of 2 and just instapop everything two at a time.
It is rediciously good - swap Hardeners for rat types or drop one and and put in your anylizer of choice. You can run around at 30k, spam missiles and the signature is a paultry 115 so you speed/sig tank most all dps. I think the worst I have seen under 2 webs was my shields dropped about 25%.
[Scythe Fleet Issue, Explorer] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Large Shield Extender II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Hobgoblin II x5
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Unn4m3D
1
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Posted - 2013.07.03 14:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Delucian wrote:Vexor/Navy Vexor/Ishtar (IMO) are the very best of do it all ships.
If you want something that works stupidly well for HS combat sites (any and all of them), try this. For 90% of the sites you can split the missile launchers into 2 groups of 2 and just instapop everything two at a time.
It is rediciously good - swap Hardeners for rat types or drop one and and put in your anylizer of choice. You can run around at 30k, spam missiles and the signature is a paultry 115 so you speed/sig tank most all dps. I think the worst I have seen under 2 webs was my shields dropped about 25%.
[Scythe Fleet Issue, Explorer] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Large Shield Extender II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Hobgoblin II x5
Do you have fits for those ships? Vexor/NavyVexor/Ishtar?
Im almost able to fly an ishtar with t2 sentries and i'm looking forward to exploring low and nullsec with it, i'm going to start at high sec just to get the hang of the drones, ranges and stuff, but then ill move to low/null.
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Delucian
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
48
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Posted - 2013.07.03 15:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Whitehound posted a Vexor fit above, which is similar to what I run with a few variabilities. Below are two fits I have tried that work ok. I do not profess to have this down and would change both fits for Low/Null substantailly. Hardeners are rat specific of course. The Navy Vexor can run the Repper/AB continually if needed, but it has a pretty small sig so you sluff off most incoming DPS and can run out at range. Typically I drop a flight of Sentrys in as well
The Ishtar fit works fine, but I am still refiniing it.
[Vexor Navy Issue, Explorer] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Capacitor Power Relay II Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
10MN Afterburner II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Cap Recharger II Large Capacitor Battery II
650mm Medium Prototype Siege Cannon, Titanium Sabot M Drone Link Augmentor II Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5
[Ishtar, Explorer B] Corelum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer Dark Blood Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Adaptive Nano Plating II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array Large Peroxide Capacitor Power Cell
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warden II x5 Garde II x4 Vespa EC-600 x4
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Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 15:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Fr00b Snap wrote:You can`t do any lowsec combat sites in this fit. If you want to give answers then do not give them to me but give them to the OP. And by the way, you are wrong when you think you cannot use it in low-sec. Many high-sec escalations lead you into low-sec and the Vexor is just fine for doing exploration in high-sec and low-sec. If you have a better suggestion, a fitting, a ship, etc. then please do post it. And please do not tell me you cannot do everything with it or that it cannot fight a Ferox or that it cannot crash gate camps or that it cannot single-handedly wipe out 0.0 fleets. It get this kind of crap a lot lately.
OP wanted ship for high and low sec combat sites and data and relic sites. You posted a fit which will be alphaed in most low sec combat sites, didn`t want to hurt your feelings. And about fits, for high and low sec exploration OP should use Ishtar with sentry drones according to npcs, tank according to npcs and prop module according to his taste, no slot should be empty. Thats about it. |

Unn4m3D
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Delucian wrote:Whitehound posted a Vexor fit above, which is similar to what I run with a few variabilities. Below are two fits I have tried that work ok. I do not profess to have this down and would change both fits for Low/Null substantailly. Hardeners are rat specific of course. The Navy Vexor can run the Repper/AB continually if needed, but it has a pretty small sig so you sluff off most incoming DPS and can run out at range. Typically I drop a flight of Sentrys in as well
The Ishtar fit works fine, but I am still refiniing it.
[Vexor Navy Issue, Explorer] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Capacitor Power Relay II Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
10MN Afterburner II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Cap Recharger II Large Capacitor Battery II
650mm Medium Prototype Siege Cannon, Titanium Sabot M Drone Link Augmentor II Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5
[Ishtar, Explorer B] Corelum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer Dark Blood Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Adaptive Nano Plating II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array Large Peroxide Capacitor Power Cell
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warden II x5 Garde II x4 Vespa EC-600 x4
Can those ships spare 3 mid slots for Data analyzer, relic analyzer and cargo scanner? |

Delucian
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Not and be able to run the AB and Repper. Mainly, these are for combat sites.
Now, for purely exploration sites, easily. |

Whitehound
1500
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fr00b Snap wrote:OP wanted ship ... The OP wanted to know what we think and to give our answers. OP did not ask for your opinion on other people's comments. It is generally frowned upon and seen as trolling. You then have not given anything to the OP yet. You are only arguing and replying to others, which nobody wants to read.
Try again, and try without first quoting others. I would appreciate it a lot, and do not care about my feelings. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Delucian
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ok, I will post an observation from some extensive testing of late (with no quoted links _
It seems like the Vexor/Navy Vexor and Ishtar are really teh best cost value for exploration/DED combat.
Do the Strategic cruisers really even compete in this area now? |

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1345
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Delucian wrote:Ok, I will post an observation from some extensive testing of late (with no quoted links  _ It seems like the Vexor/Navy Vexor and Ishtar are really teh best cost value for exploration/DED combat. Do the Strategic cruisers really even compete in this area now?
In low sec? Hell yes they do. There's just no reason to use them in high sec.
Hint: being able to move while applying damage is an advantage that shouldn't be overlooked. |

Unn4m3D
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
So you are able to run up to what level of DED complexes? 6/10? 8/10? Playing solo |

Kubla-Kahn
Vortex Technologies
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm sorry. I did not state that correctly. What I meant is from a cost efficiency standpoint. Ie for the cost of say a Tengu you can fit and lose a number of Ishtars (let's say) and come out ahead. |
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