| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
TomB
   |
Posted - 2003.08.12 21:42:00 -
[1]
Greetings EVE'lings
I will be looking more at this forum in the near future for balancing and ideas. There have been hot issues here for a long time, but most of them are known by me. I also promise to be active here on giving feedback.
"Where is my hat?" |
Relic
|
Posted - 2003.08.12 21:50:00 -
[2]
Hi, nice to see you around, and looking at such a useful topic.
There is also a thread on BS spec in the patch forum, that may be worth 'moving' here if you are looking into this subject in detail. Its a strange thread as it has a good few messages but no flames :)
Relic
|
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2003.08.12 21:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Arthur Guinness on 12/08/2003 21:53:21
lo TomB, nice to see someone around here :)
What do we have to expect when it comes to ship balancing?
i.e. might there be changes to the current ships, as increasing/decreasing slots or something like that?
Or will ships be balanced with the introduction of new ships (tech1 or tech2, like announced on an other thread) ?
regards
Arthur Guinness
--
The worst thing you can do when suggesting a solution to a problem is to provide alternatives, people end up arguing the alternatives instead of implementing the fix. |
Lindor
|
Posted - 2003.08.12 22:04:00 -
[4]
I would suggest a boost to med. projectile weapons. As would many I guess. Decrease RoF or at least tracking speed (especially on the 650mm's). As for range I still believe a 650mm gun would be able to shoot father than 8km, but i guess in PvP i aint too bothered about this. I also had a go at some 425mm's and didnt think too much of their tracking either, tho i was shooting up a npc frigate.
-----
There is no truth, only human opinion... |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.08.12 22:10:00 -
[5]
Hybrid Blasters could use some love. =]
They aren't very damaging compared to other turrets to justify the almost non-existance optimal range. If they had another KM of optimal or some insanely high damage mod but a low optimal, maybe they'd be worth using.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Relic
|
Posted - 2003.08.12 22:11:00 -
[6]
One thing, in terms of ships, you may have more 'real' info that us players. By running some reports you could see if players are using certain ships instead of others.
One good 'question' would be - are Minmatar flyers focusing on flying other races Battleships ships. This could be seen by looking at the skills Minmatar players have invested in and their ship purchases.
Without real info such as above, asking about ships will just get everyone asking for improvments, I know that I would like to see my Rupture configured as 8,8,8 with better CPU and power :)
Relic
|
Ana Khouri
|
Posted - 2003.08.12 22:33:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
Hybrid Blasters could use some love. =]
They aren't very damaging compared to other turrets to justify the almost non-existance optimal range. If they had another KM of optimal or some insanely high damage mod but a low optimal, maybe they'd be worth using.
Hello? Hybrid blasters are ATM the most damaging weapon in the game. Highest damage mod / time (the "time" is very important here, projectile artillerys have a higher damagemod, but lousy rof) ßnd a very low energy cost per shot. They and the 425 AC are atm the weapon of coice for profitable npc hunting. They certainly don't need a boost.
Their downsid, of cource, is their low range. But without it they would be the perfect UBER-weapons.
-----------
What needs a boost:
- lvl2 BS (see thread in patch review)
- large guns generally - atm they are simply not worth it, their damage output over time is pretty much the same as that of their medium counterpart
- the bigger projectile guns (s, m & l) should get a slightly better rof, atm it is so low that those weapons will *not* be used at all
free speech not allowed here |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 00:28:00 -
[8]
I find hybrid blaster range to be highly impractical for actual combat.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 00:33:00 -
[9]
Battleship balance in general needs looking at, and specifically, the Raven needs a lot of work. ;)
Missiles in general need some tuning.
|
StoreSlem
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 00:45:00 -
[10]
The nerf of invulnerability shields is to big, considering the cap they use they are now completely useless.
Capacitor Flux and shield Flux are too weak, compare their effectiveness to a power diagnostic system / cap/shield Relay.
Caldari ships are all _horrible_ miners, you should consider making a new highslot type for miners only, or allowing mining lasers in all high slots.
Tachyon Beam vs 425mm Railgun: the tachyon beam has over 3 times the tracking speed and has greater range. The 1400mm howitzer is completely useless with the worst tracking of them all and incredibly slow ROF.
Laser Crystals have better range modifiers than hybrid/projectile ammo.
Berserker drones are too weak compared to the other heavy combat drones(shield/armour/damage).
Thats something I could take from the top of my head. Hope it can help.
|
|
|
Entity
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 01:28:00 -
[11]
Balancing eh... welll.......
- Gallente BS skill's "GBCPUBONUS" doesn't apply to Dom/Mega at all. Fix this and the megathron would be a whole lot more useful already.
- Large Turrets. No point using them. Gigantic requirements for minor gain over the good medium loot weapons, + larger ammosize. (Rare large turrets might actually be pretty good tho, but these aren't in the game yet)
- Raven definitely needs some love.
- Megathron. If people ask "why the megathron"I cannot answer them anything other than "because it looks pretty".
At the very least the Megathron needs 100-150 more CPU to be a lot more useful.
 |
ROFL
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 02:18:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Laser Crystals have better range modifiers than hybrid/projectile ammo.
Lasers /should/ have better range since they are not projecting mass. You can argue if light is mass or not, but we'll default to the current physics standard of today saying that light has no mass, hence the extended range. It is rather realistic. Crystals also suck up a ridiculous amount of mega too. :) Thats ok thought since they are a one shot deal, you dont have to reload crystals.
My input on balance is that the Battleships be diversified as the Devs said that they should be, please make them have individual purposes, and please prevent the level 1 Battleships from being superior in toe to toe combat than the level 2 ones. Apoc should either have more CPU or 8 low slots. Caldari ships have a monopoly on the ECW viability, and the medium slots on min/amarr/gall ships are usually filled with boosters to counter said ECW if you even try to counter it with modules, most dont.
IMPORTANT: Also ECW modules should have ranges, to be honest, with diminishing results the father the range. If a certain module has -8 to Ladar at 20k it should have -4 at 40k and -0 at 80k, for example.
|
Digital Sin
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 05:04:00 -
[13]
yarr, so i am not the only one who believes raven needs lovin!
i have one myself, originally had one in beta and had to get it in live.... well here i am, fiddling around with the useless missiles and four turrets. it needs to be reversed on slots, 6 turret 4 missile would be more sensible. also, more powergrid and ditch the dronespace. caldari arent drone users, gallente are. i would happily give up all of my dronespace if i got a 6/4 turret/missile array, and perhaps another med slot or low slot.
"To be content,to be comfortable, is to be complacent. No one learns anything from pleasure..pain on the other hand is a most efficient instructor" |
Darth Maul
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 07:02:00 -
[14]
Quote:
- Large Turrets. No point using them. Gigantic requirements for minor gain over the good medium loot weapons, + larger ammosize. (Rare large turrets might actually be pretty good tho, but these aren't in the game yet)
Exactamundo! Large turrets suck.. BAD. Some corp mates didn't believe me untill we all went out to a nice quiet moon and tested for over an hour. 250 proto gauss outdamage large Neutron cannons at all ranges greater than 5km, and were greately superior at 20km. Treacking rate and damage mod is nealy identical on these 2 weapons when equiped and was tested with both using AM ammo. Maybe the 425's will breath a little life into large hybrids.. but still large turrets of all kinds need a significant boost.
|
Lindor
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 09:31:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Hello? Hybrid blasters are ATM the most damaging weapon in the game. Highest damage mod / time (the "time" is very important here, projectile artillerys have a higher damagemod, but lousy rof) ßnd a very low energy cost per shot. They and the 425 AC are atm the weapon of coice for profitable npc hunting. They certainly don't need a boost.
Their downsid, of cource, is their low range. But without it they would be the perfect UBER-weapons.
Valid point - however the tracking is terrible. The 250mm rail with far more range has 0.0075 tracking, where as the 650mm artillary with far less range has 0.00575 (or there abouts). Hmm, closer range, but less tracking speed, makes no sense.
-----
There is no truth, only human opinion... |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 10:04:00 -
[16]
How's about that 3D representation of Tracking effects on optimal/accuracy falloff ranges?
:)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Valeria
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 10:31:00 -
[17]
Large Ion Cannons cannot track other cruisers/Bships within their optimal range... a small tracking boost here might be a good idea.
Raven has no advantage over Scorpion ATM. I believe a few 100 more HPs and 2 more low slots would give it one.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 10:43:00 -
[18]
OMG! TomB.... I'll start reading this forum more now. 
-----------------------------------------
Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 10:50:00 -
[19]
Basically, it is the balance BETWEEN the ships that needs working on.
Frigates need to be highly effective in groups against Battleships (and cruisers). It has been suggested that doubling the base speed of frigates (and slowing down Battleships) might have the desired effect.
Otherwise, all we will get is just a silly race for everyone to be in a Battleship. Whereas what we actually want, are large fleet battles - with battleships staying back pummeling with huge artillery, cruisers engaging at closer range and Frigates buzzing around the battlefield engaging at very close range (think of the scenes in starwars with Star Destroyers, Tie fighters, x wings etc).
|
TomB
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 11:25:00 -
[20]
Battleships:
* Will be upping ships in strenght rather than nerfing other ones. Battleships need most looked at since they are most unbalanced right now, cruisers and frigates will come later. (new frigates also coming in that will make them effective against other ships)
* Raven is not the one that needs luvin, it's missiles.
Weapons:
* Large Hybrid Blasters are the meanest if people are good at using them (not calling anyone a nubi here ), try using Gallente ship with blasters + afterburner to get into the close range and stasis web to hold the target in your range.
* Projectiles need upped I know that, this will be looked at on Chaos in the next days.
* Low end turrets need to be upped, I know they are worse than the best turrets of the size below.
These are the hottest issues in balancing, setting focus on them and get them fixed before others 
"Where is my hat?" |
|
|
Valeria
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 11:32:00 -
[21]
Hehe, OK TomB, you're right. I always liked using particle blasters and Caldari isn't exactly the most optimal race to use them with.
I still think Raven should get some low-slot lovin' though. Just one more, pleeeease.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Bald Hamster
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 11:41:00 -
[22]
I would like to see a few mid and low slots on ships. I have not seen any good combat as I am runnign the corp. So could not comment on the subject.
|
Ana Khouri
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 11:54:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote:
Laser Crystals have better range modifiers than hybrid/projectile ammo.
Lasers /should/ have better range since they are not projecting mass. You can argue if light is mass or not, but we'll default to the current physics standard of today saying that light has no mass, hence the extended range. It is rather realistic. Crystals also suck up a ridiculous amount of mega too. :) Thats ok thought since they are a one shot deal, you dont have to reload crystals.
If we use RL physics here the lasers should actually have the lowest range due to light dispersion.
free speech not allowed here |
vf142rex
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 11:55:00 -
[24]
Missiles should have the biggest range since, eh, they have a propulsion system. I don't think that this is the case right now. |
Entity
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 12:13:00 -
[25]
Even in our Earth's atmosphere we can already fire a laserbeam using a fancy dynamically adapting atmospheric compensation mirror for well over 8km (iirc), and that's just 20th century technology.
In space, a perfectly focused-at-infinity beam has no dispersion to worry about until after maybe a couple of billion km. Space only has like a couple of particles per m¦. So your beam isn't likely to disperse anytime soon, unless your focus is bad.
|
ROFL
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 12:28:00 -
[26]
Quote:
If we use RL physics here the lasers should actually have the lowest range due to light dispersion.
No. :) That is what the crystals control, and that is why some crystals have negative range mods and some have positive range mods. Dispersion in space is going to be a lot less anyway because its a vacuum, no air or humidity to pass through. The notion that it should have the worst range in space is pretty ludicrous quite frankly.
MISSILES: Hey TomB, the current missile system can be improve by not making the speed linear. Right now if you launch a torpedo, it travels at 300 m/s. That is all.
This is how it should be: You launch a torp and it accelerates up to 300 m/s withing say 1500k. Then the torp should continue to accelrate at 35m/s¦, that is 35m/s per second, per second. Squared. Constant acceleration. The missile should stop accelerating at a rather high speed. The accuracy should be dependant on the missile skill, and the speed when the missile hits the target. This means the farther away you launch, the faster the missile will be going when it hits the target, but also the accuracy will be worse. This will prevent the failsafe method of smartbombing, or at least reduce its effectiveness when trying to smartbomb a missile on an acceleration curve.
The per second is an example, you can square the acceleration by whatever time you want, two seconds, 5 seconds, whatever.
|
TomB
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 12:46:00 -
[27]
What I had tried before ROFL but when the torpedos get up to such a speed they can't follow their target and has to take a huge u-turn to get to the target, no matter what range the ships are at. It's a problem I'm wanting to fix.
"Where is my hat?" |
Relic
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 12:53:00 -
[28]
I've not used missiles much, as when I tried them out I watch 4 missiles launch and then take each other out so started to look at other weapons.
Question for people who do - do the missiles retain the speed of the ship doing the firing or do then just drop to 300 m/s? So if you are approching a target at 500 m/s do the missiles fly at 800 m/s or do you fly by them as they slow down.
The reason why I ask is because of ROFL comment about acceleration. Within the game CCP have not coded constant acceleration, otherwise our ships would have it already, but they may be happy to give missiles addition speed mods depending on how fast the ship was flying until the missiles need to make a course change.
Relic
|
TomB
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 12:58:00 -
[29]
Acceleration depends on the mass of the object that is climbing in speed, easy to tune but there is some things that needs to be looked at so that this could be done.
Hiiyyaaa!
"Where is my hat?" |
Archemedes
|
Posted - 2003.08.13 13:18:00 -
[30]
I only use lasers and the occasional light autocannon right now, but I can tell you that half the weapons available are utterly useless. Quad Light Lasers? Focused Medium Lasers? Useless. A Medium Beam Laser has better damage / second, better tracking, lower requirements, and nearly the same range as ANY of the Focused Medium or Quad Light lasers. Likewise, any projectile or hybrid weapon with the word "dual" in it's name is going to be useless.
A Tachyon Beam Laser does only about 80% more damage per second than a Medium Beam laser. The range is far greater, but the damage is not that much higher. This indicates that range is the primary advantage of going up to a larger turret, and therefore the "light" weapons of a given size (designed to be easier to fit, less damaging and with shorter range) are less effective than the good weapons of the next size down...
I'm not suggesting a big damage boost or anything, I just think the smallest "Medium" class turret should be as good as the biggest "Small" class turret. I'd love to get my cruiser's bonus to medium turrets on my point defense weapons as well as my main guns, but with quad light beams and focused pulse lasers so puny I just can't bring myself to use them...
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |