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Bermag
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Posted - 2005.12.02 09:43:00 -
[1]
I have recently started to encounter NPCs with missiles. How do you protect against them? I guess you can possibly outrun them or shoot them down but how the heck do I do that? I don't see the missile until it hit me and take a big chunk out of shield or armor 
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2005.12.02 09:49:00 -
[2]
defenders
speed (over 2.5km/s)
shield/armor hardener
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
Glassback
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Posted - 2005.12.02 09:50:00 -
[3]
Defender Missles, well timed smart bombs, shield tanking/boosters and range.
Sometimes, when I'm alone..
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.02 09:54:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 02/12/2005 09:54:12
what he just said
defenders - good skills will take care of anything up to cruise in one
Speed over (2.5km) - ie a ceptor, going this fast will not only make anything heavier than a rocket not be able to catch you (you'll be going faster than it) if it were to hit, you would escape the blast radius before damage can be done.
shield/armor hardner - simple really, out-tank them.
Jammers - another concept not mentioned, protects against any weapon bar FoF, if they cant target, they cant attack you.
Smart bombs - another not mentioned, timed right they can take out incoming missiles.
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Sanaen Eydanwadh
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Posted - 2005.12.02 11:25:00 -
[5]
sounds like the OP is a pretty "young" character and means against NPCs only, so I'd say, forget about smartbombs 
In small ships (and in others too, to a lesser effect), speed is the key - you don't need absolutely to outrun the missiles tho, since most of them are very quick: even if you're hit, at high speed, you'll get "through" their explosion blast and support only very marginal damages.
Your ship's sig radius is another important factor - and keep in mind that a micro warp drive increases drastically your apparent signature. So, you can use the mwd to try to escape missiles, but if you're hit by heavy missiles at a moment when you're not at good speed, you'll take some serious damages...
(in fact the missiles can't really "hit" on you because of your speed and your tiny sig radius, so explode as near as they can - if you're quick, you're already far away)
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Sable Moran
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Posted - 2005.12.02 11:57:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Bermag
I have recently started to encounter NPCs with missiles. How do you protect against them?
Soak the damage and kill the missile spewing NPC.
Originally by: Bermag
I guess you can possibly outrun them
Not really.
Originally by: Bermag
or shoot them down but how the heck do I do that?
This has been answered allready, see above.
Originally by: Bermag
I don't see the missile until it hit me and take a big chunk out of shield or armor
You can see the approaching missiles if you look carefully. You should see a small dot of light flying from the NPC towards you.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:01:00 -
[7]
I think I see what the OP is driving at...you don't need to "see" the missile to shoot it down...a defender launcher will automatically target any incoming missiles and take them out.
The good news is that defender launchers are also rocket and standard missile launchers too, so if you take the defender missile ammo AND missile ammo, you have an offensive AND defensive module in one...
...overpowered?
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grey Area
I think I see what the OP is driving at...you don't need to "see" the missile to shoot it down...a defender launcher will automatically target any incoming missiles and take them out.
The good news is that defender launchers are also rocket and standard missile launchers too, so if you take the defender missile ammo AND missile ammo, you have an offensive AND defensive module in one...
...overpowered?
Not really, takes time to swap ammo and ofc takes up cargo hold space while you use on or the other.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:13:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Grey Area on 02/12/2005 12:13:46
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Not really, takes time to swap ammo and ofc takes up cargo hold space while you use on or the other.
Defenders? Ammo space? LOL if that is the worst penalty for using them then it's not much of a penalty at all.
Accepted it doesn't apply to all launchers...defenders from a slow rate of fire launcher would be a waste of time...but given that these things can shoot down 400 point damage cruise missiles in ONE shot, then I think they ARE overpowered for frigates.
How much would a 400 point shield booster cost to fit on a frigate?
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:15:00 -
[10]
lower your signature radius.
800m implants + new module in RMR = 41% sig decrease...
that cuts of abaut 50% damage from torps on tempest
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:17:00 -
[11]
"but given that these things can shoot down 400 point damage cruise missiles in ONE shot, then I think they ARE overpowered for frigates."
Except when aimed at that very frigate (and defender only shoots down what's aimed at you) this cruise missile will typically do way less than 400 hp of damage (60-75 hp more like)
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:19:00 -
[12]
I thought I'd check that out...
Medium Shield Booster give 60 points of shield repair, but costs 12 powergrid and 50CPU to fit, and 60 energy to activate.
Rocket launcher firing defenders costs 4 powergrid and 15 CPU to fit, and nothing to activate.
With the sig radius rules, a cruise missile will do about 60 points (57, if you want to be exact) to an average sized frigate.
And if you're NOT fighting a missile ship, you put the rockets in it and throw damage back.
I say again...overpowered.
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 02/12/2005 12:13:46
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Not really, takes time to swap ammo and ofc takes up cargo hold space while you use on or the other.
Defenders? Ammo space? LOL if that is the worst penalty for using them then it's not much of a penalty at all.
Accepted it doesn't apply to all launchers...defenders from a slow rate of fire launcher would be a waste of time...but given that these things can shoot down 400 point damage cruise missiles in ONE shot, then I think they ARE overpowered for frigates.
How much would a 400 point shield booster cost to fit on a frigate?
No, they would be overpowered if they took down EVERY missile, which they dont, so no they are not overpowered as they arent reliable enough.
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Bermag
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sanaen Eydanwadh
sounds like the OP is a pretty "young" character and means against NPCs only, so I'd say, forget about smartbombs
Yes only played for 2 weeks (using two char though). Why shoudl I forget about smartbombs? Don't need that much skills to use them?
What is the HP on a missile,ie what should the damage be on a smartbomb to kill it?
Thanks all for posting.
I knew about defenders (but don't help me much ATM since I don't have any shipws with a missile launcher) 
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.12.02 12:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
No, they would be overpowered if they took down EVERY missile, which they dont, so no they are not overpowered as they arent reliable enough.
So what, an anti-missile module isn't overpowered until it reduces incoming damage by 100%?
So if it takes out 50% of the incoming missiles it's still not overpowered? Even though (as in my comparison above) at that point it is saving you more damage than a medium shield booster, for NO cap costs?
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.02 14:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Lord Aradon
No, they would be overpowered if they took down EVERY missile, which they dont, so no they are not overpowered as they arent reliable enough.
So what, an anti-missile module isn't overpowered until it reduces incoming damage by 100%?
So if it takes out 50% of the incoming missiles it's still not overpowered? Even though (as in my comparison above) at that point it is saving you more damage than a medium shield booster, for NO cap costs?
Oh dear, do you even know the exact math when it comes down to wether or not a defender will actually take a missile down? if you do then please state it here and let us all see it, as far as im concerned the defenders are not over powered coz if youve got a BS and a 4 cruiser spawn spewing missiles at you, unless your packing JUST defenders, your not gonna be able to stop 50% of them missiles, i **** i doubt you could stop 25% of them, please stop whining about something being overpowered when it evidently is not.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.12.02 16:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Oh dear, do you even know the exact math when it comes down to wether or not a defender will actually take a missile down? if you do then please state it here and let us all see it,
No math involved...one hit from a defender kills anything up to a cruise missile. Once it has killed a cruise missile, that is equal to the protection you get from one hit of a medium shield booster, which you would actually struggle to fit on a frigate and would cost you 60 cap.
Originally by: Lord Aradon
as far as im concerned the defenders are not over powered coz if youve got a BS and a 4 cruiser spawn spewing missiles at you,
What if they are just firing turret weapons at you? Why should you have a defence for one and not the other?
Originally by: Lord Aradon
unless your packing JUST defenders, your not gonna be able to stop 50% of them missiles, i **** i doubt you could stop 25% of them, please stop whining about something being overpowered when it evidently is not.
OK, in a spawn with 5 onto one, no, probably not...but what about one on one? My real complaint is that they are overpowered particularly for FRIGATES...on cruisers and above the current system isn't TOO bad...but I really think they should make a small medium and large version of defenders...make it more effective against missile of a similar size (i.e standard missiles for frigates, heavies for cruisers and cruise and torps for BS's), but in return, not allow it to fire other missiles.
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.12.02 16:16:00 -
[18]
This is actually a very good subject for diskussion. Why arent
there an equally effective counter against missiles as TDs are
against guns. Put a TD on a gunship and you seriosly/totaly
gimp his DPS. But the SBs dont even come close to beeing as
effective in reducing the damage from missiles.
GM Mulder: Ships beeing abducted by aliens is a perfectly
normal thing, there is nothing abnormal about it.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.12.02 18:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Grey Area on 02/12/2005 18:26:53
I agree. The problem is that the two modules are not comparable....so you'll always have one side complaining that it is imbalanced.
My idea...do away with Turret disruptors AND defenders and replace them with a NEW turret disruptor and a Launcher Disruptor. BOTH of the them to slow down rate of fire, which is an attribute both launchers and turrets share, and so will be 100% balanced. Makes it a high slot module so you have to sacrifice damage to fit it, and make them in three flavours...small, medium and large.
Edit: The way EVE works at the moment, we'd have to limit the effect of the large disrupters on smaller targets, or frigate and inty pilots will cwy their widdle eyes out.
Deliberately separated them into two modules so you have to fit intelligently...either anti-missile setup or anti-turret setup, otherwise it's just too easy.
Yes, leave smartbombs in...they are so difficult to use against missiles since the last patch as to be nearly useless.
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Vanadies
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Posted - 2005.12.02 18:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bermag
Originally by: Sanaen Eydanwadh
sounds like the OP is a pretty "young" character and means against NPCs only, so I'd say, forget about smartbombs
Yes only played for 2 weeks (using two char though). Why shoudl I forget about smartbombs? Don't need that much skills to use them?
if you are in 0.5 space or higher and theres someone else near theye get hit by smartbomb as well, and then concord comes to blast your ship to pieces
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Arti K
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Posted - 2005.12.02 18:35:00 -
[21]
The way you protect against missiles is simple, it works the same for any weapon, you whine on the forums for about a year that they're overpowered and need to be nerfed, and then CCP will release a working patch of it onto the test server about 10 days before they put it onto TQ
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