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Zuki Ed	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:20:00 - [1] Quote: A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in opposite direction). The question is: Will the plane take off or not? Will it be able to run up and take off? so what do you think????
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:21:00 - [2] The question to ask is: Will there be any airflow around the wings? Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:26:00 - [3] Edited by: Lord Aradon on 02/12/2005 11:26:50 Originally by: Rodj Blake The question to ask is: Will there be any airflow around the wings? The answer is no, technically the plane is stationary Its like this one, an electric train is travelling 100Mph east, and the wind is blowing 50Mph west, which way will the steam blow? Free Websites
Zuki Ed	Posted - 2005.12.02 13:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Lord Aradon Edited by: Lord Aradon on 02/12/2005 11:26:50 Originally by: Rodj Blake The question to ask is: Will there be any airflow around the wings? The answer is no, technically the plane is stationary Its like this one, an electric train is travelling 100Mph east, and the wind is blowing 50Mph west, which way will the steam blow? No it's not try again
Zaphroid Eulthran	Posted - 2005.12.02 13:31:00 - [5] it will not work, the plane will still move forward and the wheels will rotate at twice the speed, as the propulsion for the plane is between the exhaust from the engines and the surrounding atmosphere, the wheels are there only to support the aircraft. the answer to your question is the plane will still take off in the same distance and time as it would on a standard runway. undercarrage only prevents the scraping noises while taxiing Quote of the day; I honestly wonder if there is enough cheese in existance to compensate for your vast and fragrant whine collection.
hired goon	Posted - 2005.12.02 14:56:00 - [6] If the plane would take off, aircraft carriers everywhere would simply be huge conveyors that could launch any type of aircraft from a tiny space. -omg-
KingsGambit	Posted - 2005.12.02 14:59:00 - [7] The plane won't take presuming the ground underneath it is moving at precisely the same speed as the plane is, as the plane needs to be going at a certain speed relative to the wind to create enough airflow to provide lift beneath its wings. Saying that, the planes engines put out enough thrust to a) overcome drag, b) overcome friction from the wheels and c) enough left over to accelerate it, so the conveyor would have too hard a time keeping up with a constantly accelerating plane. ------------- My T2 Shop
Coconut Joe	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:06:00 - [8] Uh, I thought planes take off by the propelors draging it along the ground. Since the air will be moveing then the plane will take off. Think of helicopters guys! ---- Nifty
keepiru	Posted - 2005.12.02 15:10:00 - [9] That's sarcasm, right? ------------- Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
Death Destruction	Posted - 2005.12.02 17:04:00 - [10] Originally by: keepiru That's sarcasm, right? Maybe I should have said that if the plane has properors and the propelors are moving then the plane will take off, reguardless of whether its vertical speed in relation to the ground is zero. A plane flys due to the difference in air pressure between the top and the bottom of the wings. Propelors drag the air over the wings, so there'd be differences in drag that would still privde lift. However, if the plane used jets, it wouldnt work. I think a jet pushes the wings through the air, so since the plane wouldn't be moveing due to the conveyor belt thingy keeping it in the same place, there would be no difference in drag from air going over the wings so it wouldnt work then. I was in a rush last time, sorry. It was a riddle, I should have written more
Scythus Aratan	Posted - 2005.12.02 17:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Lord Aradon Edited by: Lord Aradon on 02/12/2005 11:26:50 Originally by: Rodj Blake The question to ask is: Will there be any airflow around the wings? The answer is no, technically the plane is stationary Its like this one, an electric train is travelling 100Mph east, and the wind is blowing 50Mph west, which way will the steam blow? Electric trains don't make steam.
fairimear	Posted - 2005.12.02 17:53:00 - [12] Edited by: fairimear on 02/12/2005 17:57:31 nope. all planes with fixed wing except the swivel turboprop thing and the jump jet need to be moving forward. a jet does't produce and lift through speed at all and a propeler needs to be very large like a helicopters. movment through air of a wing creates the lift.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.12.02 17:54:00 - [13] Originally by: Scythus Aratan Originally by: Lord Aradon Edited by: Lord Aradon on 02/12/2005 11:26:50 Originally by: Rodj Blake The question to ask is: Will there be any airflow around the wings? The answer is no, technically the plane is stationary Its like this one, an electric train is travelling 100Mph east, and the wind is blowing 50Mph west, which way will the steam blow? Electric trains don't make steam. well known fact: train drivers ALWAYS have a kettle, whether they are steam or electric
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.02 18:17:00 - [14] Edited by: Thomus on 02/12/2005 18:17:27 Look, if plane is trying to go: that way-----> and the ground is moving at same speed: <----- that way. then the plane isn't moving. No moving, no airflow around wings. It it did take off, then you would be watching a plane take off from standstill. EVEN THEN, if it did take off, it would no longer be touching the ground, ****ing up this whole scenario anyways. i can tell you now, THE PLANE WILL NOT MOVE edit: the electric train makes no steam, btw. ---------------- Tom
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Thomus Edited by: Thomus on 02/12/2005 18:17:27 Look, if plane is trying to go: that way-----> and the ground is moving at same speed: <----- that way. then the plane isn't moving. No moving, no airflow around wings. It it did take off, then you would be watching a plane take off from standstill. EVEN THEN, if it did take off, it would no longer be touching the ground, ****ing up this whole scenario anyways. i can tell you now, THE PLANE WILL NOT MOVE edit: the electric train makes no steam, btw. Correct on both counts, my riddle was a trick one btw LOL But its not hard, life is created by airflow over the wings, the only way the plane would take off is if it was a jump jet, then the thrust from the engines would force it off the ground into the air, but a standard plane, when the propelor (or jet whatever) is spinning, it is supposed to drag the plane forward, and once at a certain speed, the airflow will be enough to lift the plane off the ground, it cannot do this if it is not moving which it wouldnt be if it was on a conveyor belt. You jump onto a free-fly conveyor and run as fast as you can, i think you find youll be running on the spot. Simple physics people. Free Websites
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Lord Aradon life is created by airflow over the wings, u mean lift, right? i thought it looked funny with a typo. A rooster stands on the very top of a roof, exactly over the point at the top like this: ' ^ <--- (exactly over the top). If it lays an egg, which way does it roll? ---------------- Tom
Zaphroid Eulthran	Posted - 2005.12.02 23:16:00 - [17] Edited by: Zaphroid Eulthran on 02/12/2005 23:16:59 if a plane is on a free rolling conveyor and you attempt to take off the plane WILL move forwards, the power generated by the engines is converted into forwards movement irrelevant of any contact with the ground, the plane will produce thrust against the stationary atmosphere the wheels may end up spinning at an incredible speed but forwards motion will occour, forwards motion will lead to takeoff if you balance the forces, the reverse motion of the conveyor is absorbed by the freewheeling wheels (couldnt think of a better description), forwards motion is only countered by air resistance and inertia, gravity is countered by undercarrage contact with the ground, lift is generated when sufficiant velocity relative to the surrounding atmosphere is achieved the aerospace engineer hath spoken!! i'll be designing your airliners soon so you had better hope i'm right! oh and thomas, roosters dont lay eggs
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.02 23:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran if a plane is on a free rolling conveyor and you attempt to take off the plane WILL move forwards, yeah, that was on my mind too. ---------------- Tom
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.02 23:31:00 - [19] if it was a truck or a car on a conveyor, the driving force turning the wheels round wouldn't make the things move! LOL ---------------- Tom
Princess Beefcurtains	Posted - 2005.12.03 06:32:00 - [20] Edited by: Princess Beefcurtains on 03/12/2005 06:34:34 Originally by: Thomus A rooster stands on the very top of a roof, exactly over the point at the top like this: ' ^ <--- (exactly over the top). If it lays an egg, which way does it roll? Its a rooster so would not be laying eggs. However, if it was a gender challenged chicken then it would go as follows: Depending which way the wind is blowing it would roll in either direction or on a conical roof in any of 360 degrees of direction. If there is no wind it could depend on 2 things: 1) if it is a perfect point it would be so sharp that the roosters feet would probably be severed meaning it would land on the eggand the egg would not move and instead be inside the gender challenged chicken/rooster again (unless it was totally severed in which case half the rooster/Trannychicken and half the egg would go down either side. 2) if its the tip of a mud hut they usually have a nest type thing there or a big hole so it would either get boiled/fried/scrambled or nestle there snugly til eaten by other birds or an inquisitive egg eating girraffe. Thank you please Why not donate to the 'Beefy wants a dreadnaught' fund - Worthiest cause in eve imho...
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.03 06:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Princess Beefcurtains Edited by: Princess Beefcurtains on 03/12/2005 06:34:34 Originally by: Thomus A rooster stands on the very top of a roof, exactly over the point at the top like this: ' ^ <--- (exactly over the top). If it lays an egg, which way does it roll? Its a rooster so would not be laying eggs. However, if it was a gender challenged chicken then it would go as follows: Depending which way the wind is blowing it would roll in either direction or on a conical roof in any of 360 degrees of direction. If there is no wind it could depend on 2 things: 1) if it is a perfect point it would be so sharp that the roosters feet would probably be severed meaning it would land on the eggand the egg would not move and instead be inside the gender challenged chicken/rooster again (unless it was totally severed in which case half the rooster/Trannychicken and half the egg would go down either side. 2) if its the tip of a mud hut they usually have a nest type thing there or a big hole so it would either get boiled/fried/scrambled or nestle there snugly til eaten by other birds or an inquisitive egg eating girraffe. Thank you please you have too much spare time. but thanx, funny read lol ---------------- Tom
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.12.03 11:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran Edited by: Zaphroid Eulthran on 02/12/2005 23:16:59 if a plane is on a free rolling conveyor and you attempt to take off the plane WILL move forwards, the power generated by the engines is converted into forwards movement irrelevant of any contact with the ground, the plane will produce thrust against the stationary atmosphere the wheels may end up spinning at an incredible speed but forwards motion will occour, forwards motion will lead to takeoff if you balance the forces, the reverse motion of the conveyor is absorbed by the freewheeling wheels (couldnt think of a better description), forwards motion is only countered by air resistance and inertia, gravity is countered by undercarrage contact with the ground, lift is generated when sufficiant velocity relative to the surrounding atmosphere is achieved the aerospace engineer hath spoken!! i'll be designing your airliners soon so you had better hope i'm right! oh and thomas, roosters dont lay eggs OMFG, do you know how car performance is measured? they sit the car on rolling platforms and rev 'er up the wheels spin, and so do the rollers, the car goes ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. But hang it all, i think your right here, the engines are dragging the plane, not the engines driving the wheels, ponders Free Websites
Kedammre	Posted - 2005.12.03 12:01:00 - [23] heh, i read through the topic, but not sure if the OP's question actually got answered in there. basically, all that will happen is the undercarriage wheels on the plane will spin somewhat faster due to the higher relative speed of the (crazy motorised) runway, but the plane (propellor or otherwise) will take off pretty much normally. a harder question is actually how this conveyor was going to work at all how does the control system rev the speed up high enough to counter the plane's movement when the speed of it has only a negligable effect on the plane in the first place... there is a tiny force exerted on the plane through friction in the wheel bearings but the conveyor would have to be going at a kinda unrealistic speed for that to keep a plane stationary while at full throttle :P
Edge1	Posted - 2005.12.03 12:38:00 - [24] Thomas, you been watching too much Simpsons methinks.
Thomus	Posted - 2005.12.03 14:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Edge1 Thomas, you been watching too much Simpsons methinks. argh, dude, watch the spelling of the name. NEW RIDDLE THREAD. i'll be in there.... ---------------- Tom

Zhuge Liang	Posted - 2005.12.03 15:47:00 - [26] someone guessed it correct forum rules \| [email protected] ò Want to be a Forum moderator?

Laocoon	Posted - 2005.12.03 20:36:00 - [27] Edited by: Laocoon on 03/12/2005 20:37:00 Originally by: hired goon If the plane would take off, aircraft carriers everywhere would simply be huge conveyors that could launch any type of aircraft from a tiny space. wtf... just... no. It wouldn't take off, end of. - maybe --------------- i collect heads in jars
Edge1	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Thomus Originally by: Edge1 Thomas, you been watching too much Simpsons methinks. argh, dude, watch the spelling of the name. NEW RIDDLE THREAD. i'll be in there.... My bad.
Godlesswanderer	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:42:00 - [29] One question, is the plane a Harrier Jump Jet? -------------------------
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:17:00 - [30] Plane in a wind tunnel will fly, as there is air moving past it. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC

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