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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:47:00 -
[1]
Looks like macros will be easy to destroy using RMRs new feature. All you need to do is swap the can with your can.
From the CCP site regarding the Jettisoned Cans
"If a pilot takes anything from your jettisoned canister, then your gang and/or your corporations will flag that pilot as a thief, and you are permitted to open fire on the pilot responsible for stealing your loot. CONCORD will neither enforce nor interfere with the matter, so it is up to the owner of the stolen property to exercise his or her right. Be warned that this could be used as a trap to lure smaller fleets into sanctioned engagements."
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Blitz Hacker
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:54:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: HUGO DRAX
Looks like macros will be easy to destroy using RMRs new feature. All you need to do is swap the can with your can.
From the CCP site regarding the Jettisoned Cans
"If a pilot takes anything from your jettisoned canister, then your gang and/or your corporations will flag that pilot as a thief, and you are permitted to open fire on the pilot responsible for stealing your loot. CONCORD will neither enforce nor interfere with the matter, so it is up to the owner of the stolen property to exercise his or her right. Be warned that this could be used as a trap to lure smaller fleets into sanctioned engagements."
Awesome ownage, I'm not a pirate; but I'll be visiting high sec space frequently just to dust off some macro miners.
Good call on CCP's part, tired of having to kamikazee these guyz with otherwise good battleships. Mebbie we can put some of these coward pirates that like blowing up barges to good use for a change :)
-BLiTZ-
;)
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Saeris Tal'Urduar
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Posted - 2005.12.03 06:58:00 -
[3]
The problem will still be there DRAX.
Just not as bad..I hope.
The few macro users I've found, do moniter their macro-bots.
I think the will adapt very fast, to the changes.
There's one in Amarr that runs 2 Battlecruiser macro-bots while he manualy flies the hauler.
I have to say the only sure way is to have CCP scan your computer for macro programs or macro-like programs running in the background.
Personally I think they need to do it before too much damage is done.
My opinion of course.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.12.03 07:43:00 -
[4]
It isn't difficult to simply mine to hold with the mining barges, and simply have a stream of them heading out and heading back, completely defeating any can related attacks.
Also, most of the "macroers" are in fact sweat shop workers actually "playing" the game for money. When you are physically at the computer 18h/day, it's not hard to have a mass mining op running without using macros.
Harry Voyager
____________________
I'm not an idiot; I just play one on the forums. |
solidshot
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Posted - 2005.12.03 08:17:00 -
[5]
while this may be helpful against macroers i'm not sure it's gonna help against farmers who are probably the bigger problem in game 
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.03 08:22:00 -
[6]
good poitns but if u organise a corp of 4 battleships that lone battlecruiser can be tanked just long enough for u to take the hauler out. And if the BC opens fire without being in the same corp (player corp) as the hauler concord will own it anyway
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Joseph Dredd
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Posted - 2005.12.03 09:55:00 -
[7]
Ok here goes
Get one of your corp mates to make an noob alt and keep him in his rookie ship.
Then warp to the MM and have the alt steal his ore and put it into his can, then the alt transfers the mins into your can which is next to the MM he will scoop it up and you own him.
This can be done very quickly and i doubt a "proper" MM will be able to defend against this.
What this might do as mentioned before is to change the way MM is done and the miners will just use retrievers with no haulers.
This will cut down there production greatly but not stop them.
We will probably see more concurent user records broken which will please the shareholders of CCP
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.12.03 10:10:00 -
[8]
well even the macro miners will be paying for their accounts so i doubt CCP will worry to much trial accoutns are capped at 15000 anyway. So the extra MMs will still be paying increasing supply of minerals. SO if nothing will be done so be it - is it even worth petitioning the vampires anymore
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.12.03 13:33:00 -
[9]
Hugo, RMR wont change a thing.
Why? Have you ever tried to put something into a can that does not belong to you? No? I suggest you try, because you are not allowed to put things into others containers unless you have a good standing with them.
Before you start celebrating how easy it is to blow up the smuck that took ore from your can, try to get him to put something into the can, and see how that works.
Most macroes, ISK farmers and those who write the macroes arent that stupid, that they would allow for their player to actually say YES to something that might hurt them, like taking from a can that does not belong to them.
Counting on other ppl stupidity to solve this problem is stupid in itself imho.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
Gary Busey
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Posted - 2005.12.03 14:03:00 -
[10]
Hello? Jet 1 ammo, then move the item to your jet can...
Anyways, why wait? 4 rocket kessies take down a retreiver b4 concord responds. Come on out, we will show u how...
Suicide Killing Macroers every 25 minutes... |
Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.12.03 14:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gary Busey
Hello? Jet 1 ammo, then move the item to your jet can...
Anyways, why wait? 4 rocket kessies take down a retreiver b4 concord responds. Come on out, we will show u how...
I have seen you in action, and you are fast becoming my new heroes in this game :)
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
Bongo Smith
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Posted - 2005.12.03 14:35:00 -
[12]
Attacking macroers with suicide Kessies is a novel solution, with only few minor flaws:
1) I'm a newbie. I need those SPs to get my character going. If I spend them training up Kessie pilots, I'm not playing the game.
2) It's against the EULA to recycle characters constantly. How am I going to attack barges more than once before I'm so low in security that I'll get ganked by anything that moves?
2b) ISK farmers seem to be CCP's money cow. If we try to hurt them and cause them to leave, I wouldn't be bit surprised to see the "no recycle" rule of EULA strictly enforced.
3) I have and will hurt ISK farmers any way I can. But The Great Macro War isn't exactly the vision of the game I had when I signed up. Why the hell am I paying CCP for allowing me to do their job? I want to participate in wars in low-sec, but instead I'm harassing ISK farmers in low sec.
4) Someone asked "why aren't you doing something about it?" Well, I ask "why should _I_ do something about it?" My subscription runs out in Februady, and if the game still looks like this (or rather, "when"), it's not coming back. No point in either working for CCP for free to solve a problem they are ignoring, or continuing to invest my time to a game that is headed down the drain. I guess voting with my wallet _is_ doing something about it. 
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Gary Busey
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Posted - 2005.12.03 14:42:00 -
[13]
You can make a kessie rocket alt with custom settings, ready to go.
Recycle? Everyone has 2 alt slots. Just join Reservoir Dogs with your 2 alts, and when they reach -5.0, retire. No need to break any rules here.
Also, are you really saying that CCP is breaking their own EULA by allowing people to sell ISK? I find this hard to believe... and also somewhat slanderous.
'allowing us to do their job' I find it fun, also I get to put across a message: "don't mess with the game i love".
Suicide Killing Macroers every 25 minutes... |
Kerilynn
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Posted - 2005.12.03 14:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gary Busey
You can make a kessie rocket alt with custom settings, ready to go.
Recycle? Everyone has 2 alt slots. Just join Reservoir Dogs with your 2 alts, and when they reach -5.0, retire. No need to break any rules here.
Can you list the skills/bloodline that are needed to create a Kessie Rocket alt? I'm interested in creating such a charater and may join you in your quest! Also, how many macroers can you blow up before you reach "retirement"?
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Gary Busey
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Posted - 2005.12.03 15:00:00 -
[15]
Eve-mail your request to the CEO of Reservoir Dogs: Pandemic Thinking
Prob best not to post that stuff here.
Suicide Killing Macroers every 25 minutes... |
Bongo Smith
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Posted - 2005.12.03 15:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gary Busey
You can make a kessie rocket alt with custom settings, ready to go.
Share the info.
Quote:
Recycle? Everyone has 2 alt slots. Just join Reservoir Dogs with your 2 alts, and when they reach -5.0, retire. No need to break any rules here.
Reservoir dogs' retirement home will fill up before the macroers run out of alts and new accounts. I suspect there are far more ISK-farmers than there are those who fight them directly.
Quote:
Also, are you really saying that CCP is breaking their own EULA by allowing people to sell ISK? I find this hard to believe... and also somewhat slanderous.
Well, how many of the macroers you've petitioned are gone? Some of the ones I've petitioned might be gone, it's hard to tell, since there are so many of them. But I do know that many of those I've petitioned over a week ago are still happily macroing away.
So, to recap: I find a macro-miner. I petition a macro-miner. A week goes by, and the macro-miner is still happily mining away.
Now, is CCP doing anything about them? They claim to be. The standard answer to a petition is along the lines of "Thanks, we'll be watching them." But if it takes me 30 minutes (well, 30 seconds usually) to recognise a macro operation, why doesn't CCP, with their GM tools, recognise one in 7 DAYS? They either don't, which makes me cry, or they do, yet do nothing.
Of course CCP claims that they're "trying to follow the money". Now why the hell would they do that? If they destroy the macro-mining operations, there won't be any money that needs following. The roids will be again available to regular players, the macro-miners will have to go and try writing cleverer macroes, and the flow of ISK to eBay will stop. Which is kinda the whole point of the exercise. And if they want to follow the money, wouldn't it be easier after, say, 90% of the current macro miner operations were destroyed? Less money to follow, after all.
A colour-blind hedgehog in a bag would fight macroing better than CCP currently does. So either they're stunningly inept, or they're passively or actively allowing macroing to take place.
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Gredoh
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Posted - 2005.12.03 15:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gredoh on 03/12/2005 15:27:51
Why is it ok for macrominers to keep creating miners on 14-day trial accounts (and thus pay nothing in sub fees to CCP), but its not ok for paying customers with legit accounts to do the same when recycling their Kessie alts? 
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.12.03 15:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gredoh
Edited by: Gredoh on 03/12/2005 15:27:51
Why is it ok for macrominers to keep creating miners on 14-day trial accounts (and thus pay nothing in sub fees to CCP), but its not ok for paying customers with legit accounts to do the same when recycling their Kessie alts?
Because macroers dont care? The violate the EULA, and brag about it, with ads for their cheap ISK. They are ruthless, and couldnt care less.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
The Hellion
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Posted - 2005.12.03 16:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gredoh
Edited by: Gredoh on 03/12/2005 15:27:51
Why is it ok for macrominers to keep creating miners on 14-day trial accounts (and thus pay nothing in sub fees to CCP), but its not ok for paying customers with legit accounts to do the same when recycling their Kessie alts?
also most macroers and farmers etc dontuse trial accounts, you cant get the neccesary skills in 2 weeks... also something that irks me is when people say that ccp dont do anything about it because they like the macroers and farmers subscription fees, which is pure nonsense.
what i'd like to see is putting a time limit on life in a starter corp and npc corps. that way they would be war dec'able. yeh it makes others greifable but frankly they shouldn't be there anyway and should get into a real corp and accept its neccesary to combat the people who have alts in npc corps to do nefarious things without any risk. To me all aspects of the game are fair play, except if it is leading to selling isk on ebay.
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Buraken v2
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Posted - 2005.12.03 17:00:00 -
[20]
Dont you think the macro miners will just make so that their miners dont use someone elses can? 
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Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2005.12.03 17:27:00 -
[21]
Cure for macro mining;
Remove mining from the game.
Proud member of the 70-odd thousand |
Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.12.03 17:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
Cure for macro mining;
Remove mining from the game.
Fair point. Could for example make asteroid belts into deadspace objects, accessible only through missions given by Mining Division agents. Watch the macros scream as they realise they have to get standings, LOL.
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Kingslayer2
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Posted - 2005.12.05 05:34:00 -
[23]
all ccp need to do is ban the players IP address not just the char for so many days.that why the person can not creat another account to use macro miners.ive seen it done many of times when i used to play on Battle.net before i started playing eve.its very hard to replace your ip address unless you have somemoney up front...
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2005.12.05 05:52:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Mira deVorsha on 05/12/2005 05:53:26
Originally by: Gredoh
Why is it ok for macrominers to keep creating miners on 14-day trial accounts
Easy to stop this. Have the 14 day accounts only be able to mine non-rare stuff and have a good chance of destroying the roid.
For newbies would be no biggie as they would know no better.
You won't stop macromining/farming however if you can make the ROI worse then it means that CCP get money for more accounts and mining becomes less profitable for macro'ers.
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Cattraknoff
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Posted - 2005.12.05 06:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kingslayer2
all ccp need to do is ban the players IP address not just the char for so many days.that why the person can not creat another account to use macro miners.ive seen it done many of times when i used to play on Battle.net before i started playing eve.its very hard to replace your ip address unless you have somemoney up front...
doesn't work for everybody, for example, I have a dynamic IP address (it changes at least once per day) it'll help for some of them, but not all.
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Partisan Ograe
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Posted - 2005.12.05 06:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kingslayer2
all ccp need to do is ban the players IP address not just the char for so many days.that why the person can not creat another account to use macro miners.ive seen it done many of times when i used to play on Battle.net before i started playing eve.its very hard to replace your ip address unless you have somemoney up front...
the sweatshops would have no problem getting new IP's and then wouldn't CCP have to unban the old ones leading to a vicious cycle?
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Jarnis McPieksu
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Posted - 2005.12.05 06:45:00 -
[27]
Macromining will take a huge hit.
There is an EXTREMELY easy way to mess with the macro miners.
You fly to macro miner pile, drop a jetcan, shift all the ore from their jetcan to your jetcan. You will be flagged. If they shoot you, you WTFBBQ them to bits.
If they do not shoot you, you wait. When they move the ore from your jetcan, you WTFBBQ them.
Normally ore stealing from these guys mean that you need to haul it somewhere. Highly cumbersome. Now you can do it from a fully armed combat ship, and there's nothing they can do about it except to have armed escorts in same gang as the miners.
This is also sort of a problem for noobie miners. What you are gonna do if a BS parks next to your Osprey and drops your jetcan contents to his jetcan. You can't touch it if you plan to live, and your mining-fitted osprey (or, worse yet, barge) is not exactly going to gank that battleship.
This is pure and unadulterated grief-o-matic. Works great on macroers, but sadly also works on anyone mining without the guns to back himself up.
Or am I missing something with the system, and this was taken into account during testing? To me it seems that it's open season for oldtimers to grief on anyone mining in empire - macroers and normal noobies. The only risk is that the guy you poke with this trick has a corpmate big brother or two nearby who lays the smackdown on you, and I'm sure people are willing to risk 100M battleship for that if their bank account is fat enough.
Me personally? I think this is a good thing. Makes empire less safe to mine in, gives more incentive to just say 'fark it' and move to higher grade ores that give better return for time spent mining anyway.
Which, in turn, makes it more fun to go all Yarr! on low sec empire. 
I just hope griefers won't cause irreparable damage to the carebear subscriber base... and yes, you can always mine straight into a hauler or to a secure can.
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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
You won't stop macromining/farming however if you can make the ROI worse then it means that CCP get money for more accounts and mining becomes less profitable for macro'ers.
Macros are dead easy to stop. Macros can't be intelligent, add in something that requires real intelligence and changes constantly so that the macro systems can't adapt.
Sweatshop farmers are harder. What could work is the suggested "throw the players out of newbie corporations when they are able to fly barges or some other bigger ships". CCP guys said they won't to it though since many players would hate being thrown into the cold rough world
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Sirilonwe
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu
If they do not shoot you, you wait. When they move the ore from your jetcan, you WTFBBQ them.
THEY CAN'T. How many times should we say this? .
You can't put something in a can which don't belong to you.
_______________________
Forums DSU |
Reuv
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sirilonwe
Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu
If they do not shoot you, you wait. When they move the ore from your jetcan, you WTFBBQ them.
THEY CAN'T. How many times should we say this? .
You can't put something in a can which don't belong to you.
Not what he said.
You take their ore and place it into a can next to theirs and just sit there. If they open your can to take their ore back they become flagged. They are the ones taking "your" ore and putting back into Their own can.
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