We don't have WIS because the Carbon platform is a complete failure and they can't fix it within a remotely acceptable timetable. Nothing to do with customer outcry.

so the average login per day of players is somewhere around 20-25k....remember this is down from a steady 40k to near 50-60k players online at any given time a few months ago.

so at the current level of average players online, those 4k+ are still only 1/5 of the regular online population... ONE FIFTH

Issler

I think it's been said already but it's worth reiterating:

Walking in Stations is, in of itself, not a bad thing. The idea of a sci fi universe sandbox complete with cantinas, back alleys and poker games you can bet a capital ship on are all awesome and CCP *has* done a cool job developing new avatar tech.

The main rage against WiS has I think been mostly focused on the following two concerns:

1. WiS takes away from FiS development
2. WiS means NEX

as for #1 this is a legitimate concern. Developer A can only work on one thing at a time and that thing would be either WiS or FiS. There's not much getting around this except for the fact that asset-developers (people who make ships for FiS or rooms for WiS) can only work on one thing yes, but balance adjusters (such as who would rejig FW and rebalance ships) don't have much use for developing WiS anyway so there's that.

#2 is an easy fix, just remove NEX.



There's something important to realize here CCP; people aren't buying what you're selling because what you're selling *sucks*. Nobody, NOBODY! not even the WiS fanboys asked you to release ONE EMPTY ROOM and a for-real-cash clothing store. Every-time CCP talked about WiS people thought "Cantina? Cool, can't wait to go hang out in one of those while waiting for an op to start." nobody nobody nobody nobody nobody was craving a captains quarters as the most important thing of WiS.

Just put out the 4 CQ, build a cantina and people might warm up to the idea! And it's not even that huge of a commitment anymore, you've already built all the god-damn avatar and rendering tech! Just slap some bulkheads together and call it a cantina. Hell. You guys can do it, why don't you? It's like walking off the race track when you're a meter from the finish line.

I just hope you don't have sex like you do expansions, where's the happy ending for everybody? Just commit to finish even if everybody looks embarrassed and unsatisfied after but ffs finish!

CCP showed every intention of trying to financially shaft the space barbie WiS supporters, and here you lot are begging CCP not to abandon it. I just love that, CCP wanted you to bend over and take it, without lube whilst rifling though your wallet and now you are all upset because most players told CCP "no thanks" and they put their plans on hold.

Anybody who still supports space barbie and WiS after we saw CCPs pricing policy is a mug.

damn too many posts -.-



YES they should roll it back and do away with Incarna. I agree

Yes, IM the stupid one when you want them to continue producing a product that REDUCED THEIR COMPANY 20%

I at least want CCP to GROW - NOT - shrink.
Who's the least intelligent here?

We'll have walking in stations soon and on a machine designed for it.. the PS3 (yeah I dont' have one.. have the xbox so thats a wrinkile)

All the content will be there... let it happen in good time.. when feasible, find a way to let some percentage of the dust play be done on the pc....

... another option would have been putting out a run of the mill low resolution enviroment sorta on the level of global agenda (which is fun enough for me if it were a small sliver of a bigger game)

the PC and the Console are merging in the future anyway.. or whatever the predecessor will be called

Someone wanna link the dev blog where we got told about Incarna being shelved?

You guys certainly carried on the debate without me.

..... stuff.....

.... and yes, I see I blew the whole "avoid writing a wall of text" thing. I'll shut up now.

Briefly:

There are lots of games where you can walk around and dress up your toon.

There's only one game where you can fly spaceships MMOifficly, and it languished for years in stagnancy to try and put Incarna and Wod and Dust together.

So those of us who play this game for the flying spaceships part were rather upset (and it's not just a minority - there's a lot of players who don't like Incarna that never posted here, as seen by the large numbers of subscriptions dropped) to see Incarna sucking up resources that could've gone to making the spaceships game better.

My point was ignoring the fact that the WiS has been shelved (like WoD and at the same time - lol co-incidence right?) doesnt make it not true and ignoring that is just silly

We-¦ve built a lot of solid character tech that can be used for all kinds of great game play in the future. Right now our focus will be on classic EVE game play, as we've committed to, so all that is on ice while we figure out what we want to do with it. And more importantly...what you guys want us to do with it.

I'm getting the feeling that the HIlmar quote was an exaggeration. Other comments sprinkled throughout the forums lead me to believe that there may actually be a small team still working on Incarna. I'm loving that they are knocking out a ton of spaceship related content though. When you don't have to build an entire framework the devs can make quick changes that get to the player base much faster. If they can get Incarna to a stable point we should see the same thing there.

Maybe it's time we just designed it for them.

The OP is wrong - only a small minority actively want WIS.


Many of us think it could be nice if done right - but we dont want to sacrifice any of the spaceship development for it.

I actually was looking forward to WoD :P

For god's sake don't use the Unreal engine, it sux.

CryEngine or something homegrown, not Unreal.

no one said that WiS is being shelved completely. it's merely taking the backseat until FiS is brought back from the dead.

besides, i have no reason to use CQ (im not that into fantasizing or playing with dolls) unless there is a specific purpose to it. i.e. until we're able to go into the station's cantina to complete some side objective, WiS might as well not exist.

they bit off more than they could chew. diverting most manpower to WiS work was a huge mistake only because half of EVE is broken or incomplete! until EVE's current content is 100%, it would be stupid to do anything relating to WiS.

myself (and possibly the other 10-20K) have resubbed or will consider resubbing only due to promising FiS content.

I hope they are paying attention to this thread and realizing that it's your post and 19 pages of you getting trolled.

And look at the corp and you will see i am not the corp founder. It was my 10 years old son whose native language is french and yet he already speak english and also writes even if making some spelling mistakes. So yes he wrote alliance with a bad spelling. Come back to me when you can also write in french and dutch like hilm without mistake then you can give him lessons.

Another thing to add bully ?

I never had any wish for WiS. Do not presume to speak for me Issler. If you did a community wide pole I guarantee that the majority would be against WiS. I hope it gets ditched completely.

Issler, it's nice that the hisec crowd have a voice in the form of your person, but unless you've been living under a particularly large rock, you may have noticed EVE's subs slipping by about 20% since last december and around 8% since June, when The Door(TM) was released. If CCP had continued working on Beyond The Door(TM), there's a very good chance that CCP would have gone down as a company by next year.

If and when CCP manages to get all the stuff released that they've currently announced, and it's a LOT of stuff, as well as having finally iterated on and fixed nullsec, losec and FW, then I think there'll be leeway from the portion of the players who quit over The Door(TM).

--Bomb

I think this thread only served to highlight the number of male players out there that wanted to play with Barbie dolls than GI Joe when they were young but couldn't because of (sadly) expectations and established gender roles.

What's next? A lot of male players that wish that they could get pregnant?

Theyre using Unreal 3 for Dust... why not scrap the unusable engine they have now and use that here too? Tie WiS development with Dust rather than tying WiS development with WoD (as thats just as dead as it gets)

Spew hyperbolic nonsense often?

I am a internet spaceship captain in RL so I refute your claim that CCP is not supporting RP in the game and again, when I play the speculation game on the market, when I plot or when I simply blow someone up or whatever, I am pretty immersed already. Which renders WiS completely irrelevant.

Now you are just making a straw man. EVE is a niche game but it has steadily grown since 2003 and considering its age, no one can call that dying and the only fact here is that you have nothing to back that up, that EVE wouldn't survive, which I should point out that it has, without WiS because of its niche nature so to claim that CCP will go under without WiS is just plainly stupid.

And Blizzard, like any other "good" employer, did lay off about 500 people in February 2011. I thought you should know since you have done your research poorly.

They got all the information they needed when thousands of accounts got canceled over the summer.

1) Would you like to see gameplay in EVE only involve Spaceships? Yes

2) Do you like having an Avatar (3d human) in the game? No

3) Do you want to see more Avatar based gamplay in EVE? No

4) Would having establishments and other in station avatar gameplay appeal to you? No

5) What in-game content should be given higher priority? Spaceship gameplay

Issler, you keep on forgetting what happend in the last 4 months. If they prioritise Wis over Fis in the near future people will unsub. That much should be obvious, possibly because it already happened.

Relax, when the FiS parts of the game have been implemented and iterated upon over a couple of expansions, then it will probably be ok for CCP to iterate on WiS again, but I don't think many players will appreciate that happening after having waited for now almost two years with little or no iteration on FiS.

also Issler, this is why ppl keep thinking youre saying WiS over FiS
cause you are.

Issler, I hate to say this, but you're starting to sound like a stuck record. But ok, let us say CCP stops working on FiS and goes back to working on WiS. Do you think CCP would survive the subsequent mass unsubbing (again)? You're not on the CSM, although you were and wanted to be again, and I presume you know a fair few people who know what the loss of subs really were. Go ahead, ask them whether they think that neglecting FiS in place of Wis again would be a good idea.

This thread yes. This discussion hmmm....

I think that most of the pro WIS crowd realizes that we can only have one for now, anything else is unrealistic.

Also, WOD content is a far, far cry from Teenvamp Wonderland.

It's more like "I will sleep with you so I can drive your wife insane, rip out your best friends throat, make your children think you are responsible, and then leave you to die a slow death amid the shambles of your life" Wonderland.

Edit: Come to think of it, this would make a good template for future Incarna content.

apparently theyre only counting votes FOR WiS not against them, sorry.

That was me. For accuracy I was referring to the Incarna feedback thread which reached some 12000 replies in 3 days where as this thread is on 520ish after 5 days

yeah.... cause likes matter

as someone said earlier, 1000 pages in three day, significant. 500 in 5 days not so, especially when half that number are nay sayers or alts

Well, as long as we are trying to bend statistics to our viewpoint I might as well join the party.

1st post: "We want WiS" 88 likes around time of this post.
2nd post: "Abandon WiS" 29 likes around time of this post.
3rd post: "most people DO want walking in stations, just not the way it was implemented." 33 likes around the time of this post.
Make of this what you will. Considering I'm willing to concede that in the rest of the posts the pro/con WiS posts likes are split 50/50, (although I think most likes would be in favour of WiS, at least as long as it does not mean abandoning FiS) that still means a majority of those that a least read some of this thread are in favour of eventually releasing Incarna.

the problem is they released teaser video's YEARS back, of a dude walking thru a station, a pub, into a war room complete with holo display. That set the expectations. CCP knew this.

They give us Mr Gimpy locked in solitary confinment instead.

Whatever they had - its obvious they somehow fubard it up, big time.

My hopes for WiS died with Incarna. And never again will i ever want CCP to work on it anywhere near as much because we know damn well if they do FiS suffers - and 99% of eve content = FiS.

Can you believe how much work is being done, how many promices are finaly being forfilled, and dreams realised since CCP realised they ****** up and did a massive reshuffle? Its insane. And eve has been starved these resources for far, far too long.


I am glad this whole debarcle happend, if it did not, many of us would still be Unsubbed.

And i am sorry to you WiSers, but its obvious CCP can never forfill that promice without shafting the rest of eve, so may you're hopes of space barbies die quietly and go away so we can enjoy FiS as it's reborn once more.

Then you're a moron. New ships, supercap nerfs, hybrid fixes, etc are a fantastic start to fixing the game and more than was done while CCP was focused on space barbies.

This thread is literally terrible. If you want to prioritise walking in stations over damn actual content, go play Hello Kitty Dungeon Adventure.


How exactly does creating a bar where your avatar can sit in type in local about shitfit canes count as actual content? Seriously, this thread is deluded. Sure, once the major **** is done, let them throw some resources at it, might even turn out entertaining but EvE isn't about your peoples deluded "lets all sit in a station with no effectual interaction". It's about combat, wether actual ship pvp or as some put it "market" pvp. It's a sandbox for action, not a sandbox for freaking idiots trying to cyber in a bar with a bunch of other randomly designed and grotesque looking characters.

And they weren't because CCP was so distracted. They learned their lesson and are refocusing their attention on Eve but you are trying to stop them.

Thing is, i'm not trolling. I just don't count waiting a year or two for WiS that won't offer any real content as worthwhile over content which the game was primarily designed for; space combat. Repurposing assets for uninteresting station adventures where nothing makes any kind of difference in the larger scheme of things over a new ship type or FiS content which in turn could change things is rather idiotic. But of course, keep yelling for it, i'm sure when you can walk around in a lovely NeX store jacket and click sit or stand on a chair and look at everyone else doing the same will add a ton of atmosphere.

Know what? I'd support that. I'd support anything that would let me shoot YOU in the face.

@ Azahni Vah'nos: Nice job with that detailed breakdown, that must have been quite the job. I know 'cause I started to do the same, but stopped after about 1/3 of the thread, and I only had 2 categories.

I've asked the CSM to request a devblog about Incarna's future, and it looks like they won't even do that. I derive from the words of the chairman himself on that thread that he seems to not be interested in representing any "constituency" but his own.

Put yourself forward for CSM 7.

HA! I'm not 100% convinced audio necessarily adds anything to movies except to make the worthless ones sell more.

And I'm fairly certain it can be pretty reliably documented that WiS has thus far hurt EVE more than help it.

Is this still the thread where Issler is posting over and over with the 3 other people that want Incarna being trolled by everyone else and then Issler claims it shows how popular it is?

The OP isnt counting votes, just likes (I gave you one btw)

Except every few posts you count how many people ARE fot WiS and who arent... Im for WiS, Im not for lying supporters of it.

ah youre not lying, youre making it up. Fair enough

30+ pages of you and the other Barbie fetishists getting trolled is proof of what exactly?

so i really don't understand the outrage of the wis-lovers why are they special this happens erryday you guys just need to wait a few years

As an old bitter-vet at this point - WiS where we could interact with other players in avatar form would have been good for the RP/Immersion crowd (who tend to be rather loyal customers). It would give you something *else* to do on the days where you don't feel like undocking and going to blow stuff up between tending to industry jobs and market trading.

Instead we got:
- 18 months of near-zero improvements to FiS because 95% of the employees were working on WiS
- Racial CQs the size of small box and about as interesting as living inside said box
- Zero-interaction with other player's avatars
- The inability to get out and roam around the stations
- No gaming / gambling / drinking / social establishments
- A handful of clothes designs, not enough variety, and extremely overpriced
- Things that could not be manufactured by players (they should have been BPCs)

Ultimately, I still think WiS will be good for EVE, but not at the expense of stopping FiS development in its tracks. Which is what happened over the past 2 years, and part of why the players revolted over the summer.

doing a little reading
found this interview

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/21/interview-eve-onlines-kristoffer-touborg/2/

basicly before it was 80% incarna and 20% Space ships now that is flipped from 20% Incarna and 80% FIS - so Incarna is till moving... just at 25% speed and FIS is now 4x speed.

you make me lol!

Divorcing incarna from nex is impossible. It was the closest thing to a feature it had.

Saying wiggly legs is "the foundation of blah blah blah" is mentally-ill-equipped. Exactly WHAT gameplay would it introduce? Where are the dev quotes? For the thousandth time /dance is not gameplay. Staring at a graphical representation of a monitor with nothing on it is not gameplay. GRAPHICS are NOT gameplay. You are as vacuous as the CCP marketing wh0res that have you brainwashed.

It literally took me four hours to get the avatar just right.

Please tell me you read my :words: post at the top of this page before you decided to go for an easy shot at a troll who has again succeeded in baiting you with a single sentence.

QFT.

When CCP bought out White Wolf they threw all the old (2007-08) WIS iterations out the window and started afresh with whitee wolf's stuff.

so suck it.

And CCP decided to keep it all a secret 'till now so that as many of their paying customers as possible would unsubscribe over the summer so that CCP would lose all that subscription money so that they have a good excuse to fire 20% of their staff. Am I getting this right?

What exactly have you been smoking?

or

3. Deployment of "Incarna" and pre-Incarna patches modified the core of the game to be more accessible and tweak-able

Issler's words
"What this expansion won't do is evolve mining, which remains fundementally the same as when I started Eve in 1994, add anything new to trade or industry, do anything to make low sec interesting again, get more folks in 0.0, make exploration more interesting or rewarding or really change 0.0 dominance by a handful of large alliances that own the ubber moons."

the above is still much more important than wis
also you mean 2004 instead of 1994?

@issler and a few others
The reason FiS people are so pissed is because we haven't had any noticeable changes (aside from some sov changes that we've been waiting since like '06 for) SINCE '08's fall expansion.

Nobody outright hates WiS, If they want to do that fine.
But when devblogs talk about how 70%+ of their development staff is actively working on it and half the remaining staff are "tq maintenance staff" yes people are likely to get a tad pissed. We were stagnant for years.

@ Development time
It hasn't been 3 months, they announced their changes in august - its been 5 months.

And I feel the need to remind you that these changes have been ignored for years, some were even previously implemented.

POS fuel? Wow. So we added 4 new blueprints, 4 new items, and changed fuel type on a tower. That took an artist a couple days to do the art for, a database manager an hour and some minor code changes that maybe took a team of five two days to do?

Engine trails? Code already existed, Probably tweaked and thrown back in with updated art. A couple artists two weeks?
New cyno effect? See above. Nothing game changing.

The warping through celestials objects on the other hand is new.. and would of *gasp* required new code to be written, again most the changes here are superficial and could of almost completely been handled via graphics, likely just a check written in to see if a celestial was between you and your target warp destination & at what point it was, so it knows when to trigger said effect.

The majority of the development time is likely artists working on the new ships. The guy's doing the real programming long ago developed a quick way to drop new items in and make sure everythings in place, including ships. (If they haven't then they are crazy, to be frank it was one of the first things I did when working on a certain other MMO I developed.)

None of these are massive changes, And to be honest I imagine polishing will be where the most development time is going at the moment. And features like UI scaling (for absolutely everything, which is a much more grand task then adding a new fuel type for e.g.)


@ the idea that incarna will bring new players.. Your right, I think it will too. Your numbers however are a bit ridiculous, Sub numbers double because we can walk around in a station? Granted a few probably (Hundreds and i'm being generous here) will likely do just that.. But eve is NICHE and the maingame *IS* FiS. You are being ludicrous (and probably realize this, but are just being stubborn) Even if gameplay was added to it (Like those minigames we saw at fanfest year after year.) Again it would attract how many people?

If you've ever played other MMO's with minigames in them (RF, WoW, etc) You'd know there was a few people that maybe did them *alot* but at most it was half a dozen people a realm, out of the hundreds of thousands that play them. I find it highly unlikely EVE will be at all different and would honestly like you to cite me an example of where it DOUBLED a playerbase because of a minigame that didn't really matter, I will happily correct myself and tell you how right you are and how wrong I am I love learning new things so please - do!

edit:: because after skimming over my post, it may sound like I am hating on WiS and this is false.
I like EVE, however - This means I don't want it to be stagnant, i want it to see changes, balancing, additions. "Look a salvaging ship!" isnt an addition. nor is it an expansion.
If CCP feels it seriously can't handle doing both WiS and FiS, Then that's fine of course it shouldn't bite the hand that has fed it (And, let's not beat around the bush - that is very much the current playerbase not the potential playerbase).
This should be common sense, Especially for a business!
The fact that they got away with it for as long as they did, doesn't make anyone QQ'ers. It doesn't mean your bad FiS players, it doesn't mean you are whiney WiS players - It means they made poor decisions and are correcting them. You may disagree with that - and there is nothing wrong with that so long as you have reasoning behind it that isn't fallacious.

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -Harlan Ellison

You guys who are all concerned about dressup, are getting 3 new stations to walk in, and probably some new clothes will be coming in. (CCP doesn't really advertise this much because, unlike some people, they have figured out their demographic doesn't really care about dress up.)

FW is only geting a bpc sold cheaper in its lp store as best anyone can tell.

You don't have the right to ***** like FW players.

If you want some new pair of pants then start a proposal in assembly hall. Thats what we had to do for what we wanted in fw. 3 years after they were accepted by csm we are still waiting.

You can complain after ccp has an incarna roundtable at fanfest, that no devs show up at it.

In the meantime why don't you be happy that ccp is working on both fis and wis. Or are you only happy when ccp was only working on WIS like they were for the last 20 months?

Ok you mean they already did all the work for the other 3 stations but just decided we would be overwhelmed if they released them with the minmatar station? You are not even making any sense. They didn't release them because they needed more work. They did the work leading up to this expansion and so they can now release them.

You have to try to be creative to consider "walking in stations" something other than dress up. But whatever. Just because I don't want to play "Walking in stations" doesn't mean I am somehow uncreative.

Here are 2 dev blogs about dress up

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=33595&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16055&find=unread

Now can you show me the one for fw?

Now that you I pointed these facts out to you, maybe you will realize we are living in the same universe, and it is not fact free.

Which is it Issler?

They came out with 2 dev blogs (maybe more there was one about shaders with your avatar too) about changes in the latest expansion dealing with WIS, and you pout. Are you upset that its no longer the case that every dev blog is talking about WIS?

And sorry, the fact that I recognize wis is really just dress up does not make me a troll. It makes me a realist. I see things for what they are. You seem so obsessed with some vision of what you think computer gaming and walking in stations will be in the year 3000 that you are missing reality. Reality is WIS is Dress up.

lol, so I've got one guy saying I invented a new type of make-believe math, and now you chalk my perception and opinions on the game up as misconceptions that are thus irrelevant. Let me put it to you straight so there's no confusion.

My post summarized:

1) FiS is what started this game
2) People came to the game (and stayed) for FiS (as I also said, if you were banking on a major shift to WiS, sucks to be you)
3) The game will always be about FiS, else why is it a space-sim and not an upgraded graphics version of second life?
4) There are not enough people FiS right now to consider eve crowded or massive or making full use of the available FiS content.
5) Any more reasons to give people content that is not FiS will result in even fewer people FiS, thus that content is bad for FiS.
6) WiS or any other non FiS content piece will not win over enough users from other MMOs to make up for the lost FiS interaction as a result of introducing non FiS content.
6) **** WiS
7) Good job on EVE CCP, me love you long time.

Agree or disagree, but my make believe math and irrelevant opinions are neither.

New bottom line summary statement for my position on this topic:
Even if WiS is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it is not good for EvE because it will take player-hours AWAY from FiS. As soon as a player makes the choice to stay WiS, that has an instant, tangible, and irreplaceable impact on the MMO environment of FiS. If you purport that WiS will augment or enhance FiS (as I saw in a previous post) Show me how player-hours spent WiS can ever be replaced in FiS. You can't prove it because it's a "0"-sum equation. Players are either WiS or FiS at any moment in time. Limit the interest in WiS and keep people undocking to play the game. Please.

ITT 55 pages of people whining about how they want more space ken doll dress up time

CCP made the decision to remake the wheel. If they had done it they would have been able to sell their avatar engine to other people. It was higher resolution than anything anyone has out there right now. They failed and with it have screwed themselves over badly

What should have been done. Use an already established avatar engine (see unreal) Worked on their new engine and not make their established game the guinea pig for the new engine.

Secondly - The Nex problem, Nex should have never been done this way. Free to Play games are a genre that will stick around but in no way will the replace subscription games, FTP games are for subscription games that failed and need a re-boot or are originally designed to be FTP neither suited Eve online.

Before CCP even spends another dime on WiS, a majority of us agree that the following needs to be fixed:

1.) Greater incentive to live in 0.0 and hold Sov there
2.) Fix lowsec, ffs. Besides roams, there's hardly any reason to be there. The fact that lowsec is mostly empty should be a clear sign of that.
3.) Make highsec Incursions less profitable so more people are enticed to try 0.0 once you complete problem #1
4.) Fix at least 70% of all the things on the "Sucking Chest Wounds" and "Papercuts" list
5.) Make a more intuitive UI that doesn't wear out my mouse every 3 months and totally scare off new players to the game.
6.) Fix POS's, please! They need a total redesign beyond just fuel blocks.
7.) Make more T2 BPO's available to those who didn't get lucky in the first lottery. Price and production competition is good!
8.) Rebalance distribution of tech moons.

Then, and only then, should you even fathom working on WiS again.

Nope, majority of us doesn't agree, that is just your list.

Also, in the last patch CCP delivered both FiS and WiS.

No it will bring a lot of trials that will just disappear it is all fluff and unimportant fluff.

No matter how bad the original UI was the CQ UI is even worse.
It will bring nothing new to the game.

Might get interested on few things but only for the oh ok cool 2 weeks period and then most people will turn it off.

So millions wasted on development for 14 day trial spike YEYYYY.

You bumped this to the top of eve general for a month an half and received only 136 likes for your op claiming "some of us do want incarna."

As was mentioned earlier there have already been 2 devblogs on incarna for the crucible release.

Perhaps due to a mass exodus from the game when incarna was all we ever heard about, it is not the golden child anymore. Perhaps your expectations that ccp will talk about incarna every dev blog should be adjusted.

You are right, Incarna sucked, but Incarna was not WiS. Equating them is a mistake.
Even from the WiS perpective, Incarna sucked. The backlash was because of the lack of content (only one CQ with the door closed), gameplay and the NEX-T-2-useless Store.

I, for one, want to get more WiS. CCP has to find the right balance or FiS and WiS in each expansion.
I would love to explore an abandoned BS or Space Station. I would love to hang out in my Corp lounge/offices. I would like to stroll down Jita promenade.

Heart of the matter. CCP has a long way to go on restoring confidence.

Personally I think remaining silent on the future of WiS does not help, or ignoring this thread, which has been going on for well over a month.

Lately I've been thinking that the reason that CCP is silent regarding WiS is because they are trying to distance themselves from the ****-up which was Incarna.

Will players leave until WiS is actually implemented? I'm definitely going to take a break because of it. IGÇÖm just tired of CCP promising the world and then delivering nothing.

Lots of players play this game as they like where the game was heading, and wanted to be part of that journey. But now, itGÇÖs lost some of its magic.

I don,t think they are lies ,and that vision on WIS that time was great .
Incarna had only a single room portion of WIS .
Only 1 thing left for CCP is to tell us if that vision is still alive

They released the remaining 3 CQs which weren't released in Incarna, so WiS isn't completely dead. It doesn't have nearly the same focus as before as it seems like (and I'm strongly hopeful of this) they're looking to go back and iterate on a ton of the old cruft that's been collecting for the past 6 years. This is something which, if done right, will vastly improve the game as a whole, especially if they can go back and finally make old and boring systems like mining more fun, and if they can go through their newer systems as well and remove their rougher spots. Most importantly, however, would be that CCP goes through EVE and make it into a more cohesive universe, instead of the slightly hodgepodge soup we have now. If they additionally changed their design philosophy away from making almost every UI a cockstabbing experience by default, and instead tried to make them intuitive and easy to work with so we could spend more time having fun, that'd be dandy as well.

CCP devoted time to stuff other then WIS ,people forget the fact that WOD took a major part of it.
Dust comes next .
Two games a lot of EVE will never touch.
Still WIS seems to be the only one to blame
About devoting resources ,they still try to make a console only game only a few believe in.
Nobody is crying about that or shooting statues .
Crubicle was done in six weeks according to CCP so next expansion period should give enough time to make some WIS lovers just a little happy (and i don,t mean put stuff in failNEX)
So WIS supporters happy and only FISwhiners happy(bc whining about a barbie seems the only thing a handfull of people can do)

Unfortunately as much as this means to some of us, I believe the job description of an eve community manager is to "pass along relevant information", not to necessarily care.

Besides that, it is clear they are set in their current direction. They are likely prohibited from saying ANYTHING validating possible work on WIS in this thread, because the higher ups are scared to death it might cause dissent. This is the kind of irrational fear you get from management not properly understanding a situation.

because eve is a niche open pvp game about spaceships? incidentally, this is why i play it, and this is why that "larger audience" doesn't. and no amount of barbie-dressup bolt-ons will ever change that, unless it does so at the expense of the main game, i.e. 'fis'

do you know what is keeping eve alive?
the sandbox gameplay, the lion-king circle of life of the economic ecosphere, the creation and destruction of all things buildable and destructible.
what product would come out of your barbie dress-up o7m8 /emoting? nothing. and where does wis fit in eve? nowhere
and why don't you show ccp the horrible consequences by unsubbing right now and see how many accounts follow
see if you can make hillmar apologize again

You've got a purdy mouf

It's ok though, not all goons are like Ladie.



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=43574&find=unread

Support the thread!

But then you found Jesus and now, you want to play dress up with other like-minded cretins?

And I like both griefing and pvp, for different reasons.



I am sorry, armchair psychiatrist, I don't listen to bullshit and you are both stunningly and embarrassingly full of ****.

see you are saying all you want is a progress update or statement of intent from ccp with the future of wis
and then you end it with the open the door!!!111 meme, and sad panda
you are ignoring the discussions (yes i only troll 80% of the time, 20% is discussion)
the core of which was that there IS NO PURPOSE OF WIS AS OF NOW
look at the postings of DeMichael Crimson, and even he agrees that it will inevitably take YEARS for ccp to realize their vision, and he is fine with it, that first steps must be taken even though they may seem meaningless, that it is all in preparation for the grander scheme of things, hey i am going to repeat it for you one more time, it takes years for ccp to "fix things" christ are you new to the ways of ccp?

and then here you are again repeating your juvenile open the door!!! like now!!! foot stomping, not engaging in the discussions, because you just want the door open, like it ain't no thing
that just makes me want to get uncivil, stoop to your level, it makes you look gullible, and your cause frivolous

what is wrong with dress-up and /emoting with a bunch of dudes?
read it again
DRESSING UP AND /EMOTING WITH A BUNCH OF DUDES, it's unseemly, and so is your meme flinging and yeah it's a bump, free of charge

Oh i agree with you there. I want CCP to develop Incarna more but there needs to be some meaningful optional gameplay.

In this thread, we've discussed the pros and cons, and possible gameplay additions for incarna for 2 months now and nobody is saying anything that hasn't already been discussed anymore. The ball is in CCP's court now and we will just have to wait and see if they're kind enough to shed some light on their plans.

It would be nice if CCP did a devblog similar to the one they did on the POCO's, where the players left feedback and helped CCP design part of the game.

Back in the day, they treated hysterical women with electricity, but that seems to be the least of your personal problems if you are paying CCP $600 a month for your seven accounts though I am sure they won't mind.

And yes, be a wood elf again.

Issler Dainze, is that you?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=604426#post604426

jesus christ if you understand english it means, we don't know yet, we will tell you when we do,

So CCP Guard provided an answer of - "We don't know yet, we'll tell you when we know."

What more do you want? Or, what type of answer would satisfy you?

There is actually no new information to be had at this time for the reason that we haven't decided the next steps for WiS yet. The summer expansion will be war themed as has been stated by our new Senior Producer, and will continue to enhance EVE core gameplay. What happens then is not certain at this point but we'll be sure to let you guys in on it as soon as we can (when we know).

The tech for 3d character environments is there for the most part and we haven't decided to drop any future plans for it or anything like that. There's plenty of ideas floating around and lots of possibilities.

So nothing has changed from the early stages of this thread really. Sorry to not have more juicy details at this time.

There is actually no new information to be had at this time for the reason that we haven't decided the next steps for WiS yet. The summer expansion will be war themed as has been stated by our new Senior Producer, and will continue to enhance EVE core gameplay. What happens then is not certain at this point but we'll be sure to let you guys in on it as soon as we can (when we know).

The tech for 3d character environments is there for the most part and we haven't decided to drop any future plans for it or anything like that. There's plenty of ideas floating around and lots of possibilities.

So nothing has changed from the early stages of this thread really. Sorry to not have more juicy details at this time.

You still strike me as an idiot, and that's just based off your sig. One expansion did nothing for you (which I highly doubt and if it didn't it is likely nobodies fault but your own) so you quit? That's a clear indication of a loser if there ever was one. You won't be missed.

I guess you just can't please em all CCP. Crucible was a great expansion...EvE only gets better with each passing year. I hope EvE survives for a long time to come. I expect to die an old man playing EvE.

Basically, "our top priority after dealing with defects that are live on TQ is to come up with a solid vision and find the gameplay for future work on a multiplayer Incarna release". From my perspective anything we do has to be compelling and if we can find a compelling gameplay experience in expanding the CQ with multiplayer aspects then that is something we'd definitely look at. We are definitely going to be looking at letting you out of the CQ though as they'd get crowded pretty quickly. ;)

We have in no particular order:

Designers:
CCP Flying Scotsman
CCP t0rfifrans

Software Engineers:
CCP Karkur
CCP Bayesian

QA:
CCP RedDawn

I think the speculation on what CCP can and can't do is probably not helping. Like an earlier poster who speculated that they can't have two avatars in the same space, there is no reason why this can't happen, it's just a matter of priority and resources.

Personally I think enabling the ability to invite avatars into your CQ is a good initial goal, as long as it is expressed to be a 'beta' feature. They could even make it something that players have to opt into, the same as they were going to do for the old 'new' neocom previously.

Could you help us understand just what happened to cause the incarna features of the past to fall so dramatically behind expectations, it would also help us understand what we can expect in the future. Given how much dev-time and money was thrown at it, the community was really jarred by what actually hit TQ. I believe there are some who suspect that there was some really big unexpected problem with the carbon avatar technology, which prevented any progress on other of the expected feature set over the course of the development on Incarna.

I am afraid that's impossible.
Large alliances will make their member to vote for only ppl they like and that's it.
CSM like idea is broken.

If WiS is a priority issue, then I'll support the Voice Of Reason Party with my vote.

To those who supported WiS in this thread, let your voice be heard, If you don't, who do you think will advocate FiS and WiS development? Definitely won't be the current CSM.

As much as I like incarna I will not vote for any CSM candidate thats running for that as a platform. CCP needs to take incanra slow not shove it down the throats again and I dont want a Eve player being the guys stomping on that wad of paper.

You do realize with this VoR platform of yours your just going to dilute the voting pool right?
You cant tell CCP at the end of it all to give all the votes from other ppl to one guy that is part of your party. This isnt the primary this is the final race.

WiS have 60 devs on it:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/ccp/interviews/world-of-darkness-dust-514-update




so... development of avatar technology is continuing...
gooood news for WiS...

You forgot the latest one

SiF = Shooting in Face!

Another great victory over the dress up the dolly fetishists for the people who love EVE is the fact that the new player introduction website fails to mention WiS, Incarna or NEX store at all.

Yet the designers though mentioning "erm you have a hanger to put stuff in" while not promoting, advertising or listing space Barbie as a feature at all.

CCP's implementation of Incarna as a NeX storefront at the expense of years of FiS development was an integral part of the overall cause of last year's disaster. That is the reality.

Your theoretical WIS that only you understand is a fantasy. It doesn't exist. Not because players complained about it. Not because it isn't something that would bring more customers. And not because CCP is keeping its development secret. It is because CCP just wasn't able, and is still not able to implement it. For reasons that start with feature planning and end with technical ability and resources availability.

Regrettable, however crying about it on the forum won't help. CCP is a corporation and this will be a business decision. CCP either acquires the right resources and tallent and does all the required work to deliver a quality product to attract new customers, or they don't, because they decide that their core competency gives them solid income from current customers and let's not fix what ain't broke.

Man you are confused. Incarna in it's released form was a demo for WoD (as well as being the NeX storefront). So by definition that is what delayed everything else. This is not a secret and stated as such by CCP management in interviews and other recorded conversations (CSM).

Dust has absolutely nothing to do with any of this as that is a separate dev team in a different country under different contractual obligations.

WiS is pointless.

Instead of trying to create the whole "open multiplayer atrium" that will have 1000 toons wondering around in Jita, causign havoc to the server and clients how about scaling it down....

An Idea

- Make the "door" open to a "lift"
- The "lift" goes to a private corp "meeting", "map", "directors" rooms (only other corp members can enter)
- Only available if your corp has an "office" in station
- Limit room capacity. Irl there would be a physical limit to the number of bodies in any given room
- Possibility of allowing access to CEO/Directors of alliances member corps.

Impact

- Lower server overheads because there will be separate rooms with smaller numbers of people
- Lower client needs because the room will be smaller and the number of people will be lower than an atrium
- Limited number of 'rooms' because of corp office costs etc.
- It provides something actually useful that is a small extension from CQ.

Something like this will allow the 5-man team working on WIS to have a smaller, more achievable goal that that massive atrium with 1000 players in whilst providing an excellent function in game.

so we got a 5 dudes to meet up and do what? i hope nothing too unseemly. a map for planning what? yeah i know our alliance leadership really sorely needed that "feature" to "plan" for the invasion of Branch.
here we have a circle-jerking wis-loving support group drowning and grasping on any sort of a floating drift wood of useless ideas,
i like your idea, no i like you for liking my idea, oh i like that, me too

while ignoring the glaring problems that wis simply lacks substance, hell why don't you just admit and come out and say it
all i want is to 07m8/dance with 1000 dudes but i can start with 5 please it is really important to me.

here's an idea, for those with super high standings, they get the honor and privilege of being granted an audience with the major faction leaders, a meeting in personal avatar form. hell you are god damn right you deserve it if you did the grind after all you've done for the faction.
eg. for amarrian loyalists they get to see the empress flanked by her royal templars or whatever, and you have to /kneel before you can speak to the empress, and she is really really really really hawt and there will be a few dialogue things like "gj on the grind here's your symbolic reward" and the RPers will be all YAY! DIS IS AWSUM! OH DID YOU SEE THAT TEMPLAR?! IT'S EXACTLY LIKE IN THE BOOK!

duhr typical i want barbies and dudes to emote with

Citation needed. Please show us these "facts" you claim to be in possession of.

I did not assert anything, you did. I simply asked for your evidence. I don't have anything to prove because I did not make a baseless assertion under the guise of "facts" like you just did.

Your "first hand real life experience" is not facts. You said you had "actual facts". I'd like to see these otherwise you are just making stuff up and trying to evade that you don't have any facts you can back up with evidence.

Issler you have bumped this thread to the top of eve general since October of 2011.

In that time this thread has had:
2,981 replies,
71,804 views
but only 187 likes for your original post.

I think the lack of support for your op tends to prove ccp made the correct decision in going back to spaceships.

I'm not saying they will never get back to WIS. But its clearly not the most pressing issue for players despite your efforts to garner support for it.

This thread passed 3000. post...

So how many people who post in this thread are going to vote for Issler?

These stats tend to show not many agree with his position no matter how you want to put it:

Just because all 187 of you tend to give eachother a bunch of likes doesn't mean there are more than 187 of you.

Just because it might be the same 187 people viewing this page over and over doesn't mean there are more than 187 of you.

Just because it is the same 187 of you replying to eachothers posts and getting upset at people who disagree with you, doesn't mean there is more than 187 of you.


You see the point is you guys have bumped this to the front page of the most frequented eve forum since october of 2011 and only 187 people like the original post. That tends to show that very few people agree with him.

why can't we just all be friends?

Well if you enable the option to invite other players to our CQs then we can be

you mean you worked at microsoft? they make mmos? you know experience in the gaming industry are good credentials to show for csm candidates so list them just sayin.

explain how you want priority on wis while not taking any resources away from fis, please.
NO Ur NOGGIN

I simply pointed out some facts.

Point of fact: This thread has been bumped to page one of eve general since october of 2011

Point of fact: there were only 187 likes for the original post as of my last post.

Now you can try to explain these facts away. Like someone was saying maybe people posting here didn't read the original post. I mean I think that is a pretty funny explanation but whatever.


If pointing out facts makes you angry unless I also prove something else to you I am sorry. But I am not going to stfu just because the facts I point out make you upset.

BTW do you know how many times you have posted in this thread? Just curious.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=714492#post714492 not making it up
call it a momentary slip and i will let it go, wis priority is not acceptable, continued development at diminished capacity is

look, it's one thing for me to sperg about Issler Dainze, and another for me to google you as the RL person, unless "Issler Dainze" is on your resume and public records how do i find out about your background.

if you think all your potential constituents and other undecided voters need to "do their homework" in case they might want to vote for you, then so be it. what i meant is you can post that background stuff on your election website or jita park thread doofus

Still waiting to see these facts of yours, ones I and others can verify. Please try not to evade this time by trying to shift the onus to me and just admit you have nothing but what you *believe* to be true.

I can believe you might have filed a patent for a company as a clerk or paper-pusher someplace, but you were never responsible for creating any patentable IP unless it was for shoveling BS around.

But please do go on, while we're at it I'd like to introduce you to my wife, Morgan Fairchild.

http://ip.com/patent/US8035646
that's actually pretty impressive
so it's literally your fault that the game industry has a Console over PC mentality nowadays.

Still waiting to see those facts you claim to have.. Your attempts to distract from that via irrelevant chest-beating notwithstanding.

5 years from now when there's still been effectively no further development to Incarna bar the slightest cosmetic tweaks, will Issler still be posting in this thread?

omg why did i read all of that

I looked at Eve back when it was first released and passed because it didn't seem so much as a "sci fi opus/simulator" as I was looking for. I didn't want to be some lame guy in a smelly pod, I wanted to command a freakin spaceship captain, walk across the bridge and shout orders, manage and train my crew, perform damage control on the fly. I subbed to Eve and brought a few friends with me when I heard about Incarna, I thought it would be the beginning of really opening up a true sci fi universe.

Can't say I haven't enjoyed my time in Eve so far because I have.

Can't say I'm going to unsub because all I got was a 15x15 room with a balcony.

Can't say I'm awesome at pew pew because I'm not

I can say though that I do not want CCP to dump Incarna.

It was stated once that the developers wanted to create a living science fiction world. Give us that world. (and hats)

On a side note OP I thought I read somewhere that you r thinking of running for CSM7. Is this true? I didn't see you in the CSM7 thread as being a candidate. From what I've read I seem to agree with a lot of your ideas and would like to see someone else in CSM7 besides the 400 I want to kill you candidate choices.