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Meryl Stryfe
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Posted - 2005.12.05 07:30:00 -
[1]
(AFAIK, this hasn't been discussed yet, and needs a new thread)
A few minutes ago in Elleta a suicide kessie rolled up on a group of macro miners being robbed blind by the locals. Caldari, 2 days old, with a -0.3 sec rating, and a randomish name. Then he parked next to the 5 barges.
It looks like someone gave them ideas about how to defend themselves in high sec.  Only a natural evolution I guess.
Has anyone seen anything similar?
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AO refugee? pst! |
Toutaku
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Posted - 2005.12.05 07:34:00 -
[2]
I have.
And yes they are starting to defend their illegal OPs. Maybe cuz they find it harder to mine quietly without having legit people harrass and steal their ore. Come RMR it will be open season on Macro's hehe.
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Minxella
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Posted - 2005.12.05 08:41:00 -
[3]
Come RMR they will be able to defend their illegal actions.
And to be fair The majority of macro miners touch thier computer once an hour. Thats what makes me sick ! |
Right Eyeighty
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Posted - 2005.12.05 08:46:00 -
[4]
Hmm provoke the guardian with a tanker just by locking on it?
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And now a word from my sponsor
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Haloe
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:17:00 -
[5]
With RMR the tactics may work in our favour to take out the macro's. Put 5,000 veldspar in your cargo hold and jettison it right alongside the macro's can along with a bookmark can-holder. Their hauler will probably not notice that it's not his can and will take the ore. You can then legally gank the hauler and take his place - let them mine while your hauler takes all the ore - sweet!
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Tanya Kovacs
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 05/12/2005 09:41:07
 Originally by: Haloe
With RMR the tactics may work in our favour to take out the macro's. Put 5,000 veldspar in your cargo hold and jettison it right alongside the macro's can along with a bookmark can-holder. Their hauler will probably not notice that it's not his can and will take the ore. You can then legally gank the hauler and take his place - let them mine while your hauler takes all the ore - sweet!
I don't think so. I think there will be a warning about it's illegal to do this blabla when you try to steal ore. They will fix their macros very fast.  I'm not on SiSi, so this are just my thoughts. But become flagged without any warning that you will be flagged can't be the way CCP implemented it.
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Meryl Stryfe
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:41:00 -
[7]
You're forgeting about having a warning about putting things in other people's cans. So that could warn the macro/sweatshop worker running the barge that something's up.
Also, the hauler is usually the one that's paying attention & running the gang. Popping the hauler is strictly for fun, post RMR.
Best thing to do is take your flag like a real macro fighter and hope they open up on you. And just keep killing them until the cost of business becomes too high.
Don't forget, this is an economic war.
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AO refugee? pst! |
Minxella
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Posted - 2005.12.05 09:46:00 -
[8]
I prefer this approach.
Stirke a conversation with them, pretend to be thier freind , get their home address , then go round to their house and smash their computer to peices, then if your really nasty break their fingers. MAcro ing is cheating , its should be a legally chargeable offense, hacking is a criminal offense why is macroing any different. Update the EULA and state that Use of macro programs may result in a Jail term. |
Archer1986b
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:08:00 -
[9]
im afraid its not that simple when it comes round to enforcing the LAw on this type of stuff.
If you understand Valve has done the same thing i beleive on hacks in the source engine to try and stop things. they havnt changed a bit. im afraid its up to the community to sort it out people will stop as said above when the costs outweigh the gains. ie shoot the ships
ArcherB
Genyosha Mining and Arms CEO |
Ombey
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Posted - 2005.12.05 10:08:00 -
[10]
Can I confirm something- in RMR, if I take their ore, I become flagged, they can fire at me. If I fire back then, I assume I get concordokkened? Or are they a legit target? I would assume not, but you can hope.
ombeve.co.uk |
Sonos SAGD
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Posted - 2005.12.05 11:23:00 -
[11]
Can I confirm something- in RMR, if I take their ore, I become flagged, they can fire at me. If I fire back then, I assume I get concordokkened? Or are they a legit target? I would assume not, but you can hope.
if they fire you can fire back with out a concord responce
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Meryl Stryfe
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Posted - 2005.12.05 11:40:00 -
[12]
Ok, so now, what would be the trick in getting them to open up you?
If you have BS vs. their frig, they're not going to fight. So it'll become a dance of getting aggro with a "non-threating" ship, then undocking the big guns and opening the can of whoop-ass.
The more it's discussed, the more I feel the macroers ~won't~ shoot first. Period. It'll be about tricking the hauler into getting flagged, then ganking the hauler.
Of course both sides can still use suicide tactics, same as now. But the goal is to reduce their profit margins. But killing a hauler and slowing down the mining ~still~ won't do nearly enough. Killing the barges is the only way to raise their expenses high enough.
A dead Badger is just roadkill, a dead barge is an ISK sink. Even with the RMR changes, there's no way to get a barge flagged. Barges only fill cans, not take things from them.
So we're back to square one, suicide bombers. To those I say, "Fedaykin to your Kestrels!"
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AO refugee? pst! |
Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.12.05 12:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ombey
Can I confirm something- in RMR, if I take their ore, I become flagged, they can fire at me. If I fire back then, I assume I get concordokkened? Or are they a legit target? I would assume not, but you can hope.
You can fire back on the ship that fire on you, you can't fire on the ships that choose not to fire on you.
In other word... you are allowed to defend yourself but that's about it.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
Bl4zer
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Posted - 2005.12.05 12:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Meryl Stryfe
A few minutes ago in Elleta a suicide kessie rolled up on a group of macro miners being robbed blind by the locals. Caldari, 2 days old, with a -0.3 sec rating, and a randomish name. Then he parked next to the 5 barges.
It looks like someone gave them ideas about how to defend themselves in high sec. Only a natural evolution I guess.
And what is this kessie going to do? If it aggresses it will be owned by CONCORD. Its not going to be able to own anything of any susbstance before it dies.
The only thing I can think it will do is scare off the carebear ore thiefs. "Oh noes, its not fair", I hear them cry. "I don't want to adapt".
Save the Ubar asteroids |
TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:25:00 -
[15]
There is no exploitability here what so ever. No one steals ore in a battleship. And if you do it to provoke them into shooting you they must be morons for engaging them in the first place.
It will aid the miners greatly, its a much needed feature.
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I Pity the Fool ! |
Illegal Alien
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Posted - 2005.12.05 14:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Illegal Alien on 05/12/2005 15:02:08
I once killed two barges outside a station in a 0.5 system, they had a cruiser to defend the OP's from npcs.
The cruiser undocked from the station and engaged me, the station guns obliberated him and I took his loot.
Oh and I have it on video.
Also a single kestrel isnt going to do much to a battlecruiser, which is what I kill ISK Farmers/Macro Miners in.
Additionally, most of the "macro miners" are ISK Farmers, not macro miners. So in some cases they will take ore out of their cans when thieves are coming.
Just put something like, some megacyte, something they would really want to steal.
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Catbutt
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Posted - 2005.12.05 16:38:00 -
[17]
I am just going tank my hauler, line up on a base, steal their stuff and warp out. I do not think a someone that is not at the controls will be able to get me even if he wrote a program to deal with me.
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Professional Ore Thief |
Toon33
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Posted - 2005.12.05 17:39:00 -
[18]
few days ago i saw a macro in a belt so i went to visit him wa sonly in a shuttle and the macro locked and fired on me becasue i moved al the ore to a new can :O well i got some new guns that concord didnt want
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.12.05 17:44:00 -
[19]
Who cares? They're not going to be any tougher than an NPC. That's all they are, LOL.
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wilkinson
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:13:00 -
[20]
Guardians are not going to stop me from suiciding on their barge.
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Clerick JohnPreston
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:25:00 -
[21]
how do you suicide?
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Mid Night
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:29:00 -
[22]
After the patch just show up in prefered ship. Grab 1 ore outta their can...you get flagged...the barges auto launch drones at ya...then...well you know the rest 
Mop the roid belt with em, move on to next macroer, farmer, etc., etc. 
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Kroma BaSyl
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Posted - 2005.12.05 18:30:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Kroma BaSyl on 05/12/2005 18:30:42
Originally by: Minxella
Update the EULA and state that Use of macro programs may result in a Jail term.
LOL, last I checked CCP's EULA didn't constitute criminal statute. Don't confuse the fact that people keep referring to it being "illegal" in game terms with illegal in RL, cuz it ain't. And even if it becomes RL illegal in Iceland that will have little weight anywhere else in the world.
Now that said, death to all macro miners!!!!
Kroma BaSyl
CEO - Snickers Inc
Don't hate me because I am beautiful! |
Johnny Johnny
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Posted - 2005.12.05 20:39:00 -
[24]
Sidle up to a can in your AF, pull all their ore to your jet can.
If they pull it back, blow them up.
If they don't, blow up your jet can.
Rinse and repeat.
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Johnny Johnny
Originally by: Deja Thoris
I'm not doubting you. I'll go further and call you a liar.
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Didier Oriol
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Posted - 2005.12.06 08:59:00 -
[25]
Thats just a waste of good ore, have a corpmate or some such in a hauler just take all the ore you transferred, you can scoop the mods off the dead barge/guardian etc...
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Eiko
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Posted - 2005.12.06 09:19:00 -
[26]
You can still bump the barges without getting flagged. Perhaps not the best way but a barge not in range of the veld = no ISK.
And since barges are so fast bumping them 200km off the belt will take some time to get back.
Plus from what I have seen in many macro ops the ships follow each other, so if you bump the "leader" away the rest will try to approach it, thus all ships will follow it away from the belt. |
Haram Zada
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Posted - 2005.12.06 10:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Meryl Stryfe
A dead Badger is just roadkill, a dead barge is an ISK sink. Even with the RMR changes, there's no way to get a barge flagged. Barges only fill cans, not take things from them.
So we're back to square one, suicide bombers. To those I say, "Fedaykin to your Kestrels!"
A dead barge is not an isk sink. Macro'ers will no doubt insure their barges to stop such a possibility.
They may lose a couple of stripminers, but the profits more than pay for it. All that will happen is macroers moving to t2 barges and mine 1.0 and 0.9, so it becomes almost impossible to gank them.
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Dorah Hawkwing
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Posted - 2005.12.06 10:54:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Dorah Hawkwing on 06/12/2005 10:57:26
Last I read the faq and Eula, selling ingame stuff for RL money was forbidden.
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/banning.asp
Under !) Exploits, Severe offenses, there can be read the following:
Quote:
b. Is discovered to be employing the use of a third party program to macro illegally. Funds or goods received from the benefits of macroing are subject to removal from the playerÆs inventory.
This i what I don't understand about the whole macro miner debate. By their own terms, CCP considers macros to be illegal. Why not move in force against this?
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Frools
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Posted - 2005.12.06 12:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Haram Zada
A dead barge is not an isk sink. Macro'ers will no doubt insure their barges to stop such a possibility.
They may lose a couple of stripminers, but the profits more than pay for it. All that will happen is macroers moving to t2 barges and mine 1.0 and 0.9, so it becomes almost impossible to gank them.
killed a retriever in Amarr (1.0) yesterday with 2 suicide kessies (my alt and a friend's alt)
i think it was mostly lag that allowed us to kill him cos concord didnt show up for about 10s
but we got local expander, a cap recharger 2 and a strip miner
the other strip miner and another local expander got destroyed
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Haram Zada
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Posted - 2005.12.06 14:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: Haram Zada
A dead barge is not an isk sink. Macro'ers will no doubt insure their barges to stop such a possibility.
They may lose a couple of stripminers, but the profits more than pay for it. All that will happen is macroers moving to t2 barges and mine 1.0 and 0.9, so it becomes almost impossible to gank them.
killed a retriever in Amarr (1.0) yesterday with 2 suicide kessies (my alt and a friend's alt)
i think it was mostly lag that allowed us to kill him cos concord didnt show up for about 10s
but we got local expander, a cap recharger 2 and a strip miner
the other strip miner and another local expander got destroyed
Nice, but that does not sound like a macroer ship... does it? Since when do macroers walk around with t2 gear :)
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