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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 03:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Increase the need of miners. It's unfair for us to have been dealing with this issue alone and THEN get smacked in the flipping face by the release of Incursions and the ability to make over a billion isk in 1 day by combat pilots who "Risk" against easy NPCs by having a few buddies remote rep them.
So either give them the "Risk" they want or give us our entire profession back. Make us useful. Make us needed. Give us a reason to exist.
Stop catering to jerk offs in combat ships and help your economy players a little?
At the very least upgrade our mining boats to have teeth, or ways to escape being easy gank targets. Give us something to reduce our risk or increase our income just like your doing for the carebear PvE'rs.
Trying to advertise this game as realism is Balogne. Give miners the monopoly on minerals or GTFO |
General Sauron
Saurian Industrial Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 03:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel...... |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2011.10.25 06:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Add sources of Zydrine and Megacyte to high sec then, so we can make all the sub capital T1 stuff.
And while we're at it, balance out the resource distribution in low/null sec.
I don't like the idea of non refinable modules... and I don't want to see the meta 2-4 items disappear.
So.... I'd rather see mining ships buffed. It could also be combined with tougher belt rats (esp in high sec) that your mining barge drones can handle, and provide extra ISK/loot for the miners
*maybe* lower the ISK payout in missions, and increase LP to compensate. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
143
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Posted - 2011.10.25 08:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
umadbro! |
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2011.10.25 09:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Go cry me a river you little pathetic miner
Truth is miners like you are at the bottom of the food chain you are little more than scum you think eve revolves around you and your life is so hard and unfair because of us "jerk offs" trying to kill you all the time.
Let me tell you something us "jerk off's" is where the money is at if all of you pathetic little cowardly miners suddenly quit and left the industry to us eve would be a better place with a damn site less tears too.
And before you say it the answer is YES you are scum as you are far too weak and pathetic not to be called scum instead of trying to manipulate the markets or muscling in for a piece of the pie you come here and whine and winge about it.
Although as a "jerk off" i have found a new target to remove from eve enjoy the ganking
PS. By any chance is your alt called original man |
Vorpheus
Three Sword Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 10:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
great idea... more miners, more untanked exhumers with t2 rigs |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
58
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Posted - 2011.10.25 11:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:Increase the need of miners. It's unfair for us to have been dealing with this issue alone and THEN get smacked in the flipping face by the release of Incursions and the ability to make over a billion isk in 1 day by combat pilots who "Risk" against easy NPCs by having a few buddies remote rep them.
So either give them the "Risk" they want or give us our entire profession back. Make us useful. Make us needed. Give us a reason to exist.
Stop catering to jerk offs in combat ships and help your economy players a little?
At the very least upgrade our mining boats to have teeth, or ways to escape being easy gank targets. Give us something to reduce our risk or increase our income just like your doing for the carebear PvE'rs.
Trying to advertise this game as realism is Balogne. Give miners the monopoly on minerals or GTFO
Null sec botting is the only way to go, adopt or die? |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
219
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Posted - 2011.10.25 11:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just, this once, could you "break the fourth wall" and let us know if you're trolling?
I would feel bad insulting someone whose rational thought processes lead them to these conclusions. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
435
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Posted - 2011.10.25 12:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Removing the ability to remote rep would render Sleeper sites in C4 and up impossible to do, so that's a pretty poorly thought out idea. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Sphynix
The Embraced Of Eve The Silent One's
8
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Removing the ability to remote rep would render Sleeper sites in C4 and up impossible to do.... It would, however, make PoS warfare a bit more interesting. I wonder how many incapped guns you could have floating outside the shields before the lag killed the server?
On a slightly different note to the OP, if you know how to make 1 bil a day "risk free" then why don't you. After all it would seem that you think mining takes more time, is more risky and requires more skills. So just do what it is that the others do and make more isk.
Solution presented. |
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Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
219
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Removing the ability to remote rep would render Sleeper sites in C4 and up impossible to do, so that's a pretty poorly thought out idea.
And Incursions And level 5 missions And it would dumb down PVP And it removes a way of helping newer players run missions And it would make carriers useless And it would stop you repping a POS. Or the modules. Or COs (incoming) Adn it would remove a ship class And it would make many PVP encounters never actually happen
But, according to the market research of one idiot, would "fix mining."
the tl;dr of this is "CCP please fix mining for me because I can't think of other ways to make ISK" - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
137
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
OP I think the word you are searching for is baloney.
Which neatly sums up your post. |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would not mind if CCP took another look at the Scrapmetal Processing skill. As a player learns to become more proficient in this skill, they should be able to obtain "higher" level of minerals and in greater numbers compared to someone that has no training in the skill. As an example,
A player without the skill refines a module and gets back some tritanium and perhaps a partially melted nugget.
A player with one level of this skill refines a module and gets back tritanium, some pyerite, and a touch of mexallon, along with a large melted nugget if other minerals are still within it.
A player with two levels of this skill refines a module and gets back the full allotment of tritanium, most of the pyerite, some mexallon, and a touch of isogen, with a rare chance of pulling out some nocxium, along with a medium melted nugget if other minerals are still within it.
And further down the chain... these nuggets would be sold on the market as "Partially / Large / Medium (etc.) Melted down (item)" so a potential buyer could decide if there would be anything worth refining (if they had a high enough skill proficiency) to purchase and refine the rest.
Just a thought on the matter, without being so brash. The current "loss" difference between an unskilled player and a player that trained this skill makes the skill almost worthless to train. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
53
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Posted - 2011.10.25 15:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
1/10. You got the rant down pat, but you tried way too hard on the material. Stupid carebears wouldn't think of complaining about RR hurting mining, intelligent ones know how stupid that is, lol. |
Party Lips
Blackened Skies
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
such stupidity deserves wardec & ransom |
Velicitia
Open Designs
25
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Posted - 2011.10.25 16:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
*sigh*
Mining in itself isn't broken. Resource distribution is to a degree:
Hisec -- too many mineral types, too easy to get minerals... Lowsec -- not enough mineral types, what you do get isn't better by hisec enough to really have a draw... Nullsec/W-space -- OK for the most part.
What I mean by the above is that there needs to be a GOOD reason for miners to leave hi and travel to low/null/w-space.
Currently in Hisec you can get the following (negating scanned sites): Where - Rock (Refines to) 1.0/All - Veldspar (1000 Tritanium) 1.0/All - Scordite (833 Tritanium, 416 Pyerite) 0.9 Gal/Min; 0.7 Cal - Plagioclase (256 Tritanium, 512 Pyerite, 256 Mexallon) 0.9 Am/Cal - Pyroxeres (844 Tritanium, 59 Pyerite, 120 Mexallon, 11 Nocxium) 0.7 Am - Kernite (773 Mexallon, 386 Isogen) 0.7 Gal/Min - Omber (307 Tritanium, 123 Pyerite, 307 Isogen)
Heading to 0.4 or 0.3 , you can get Race - Rock (Refines to) Amarr - Jaspet (259 Tritanium, 259 Pyerite, 518 Mexallon, 259 Nocxium, 8 Zydrine) Caldari - Kernite (773 Mexallon, 386 Isogen) Gallente - Jaspet (259 Tritanium, 259 Pyerite, 518 Mexallon, 259 Nocxium, 8 Zydrine) Minmatar - Kernite (773 Mexallon, 386 Isogen)
0.2 or 0.1 adds in Race - Rock (Refines to) Amarr - Hemorphite (212 Tritanium, 212 Isogen, 424 Nocxium, 28 Zydrine) Caldari - Hedbergite (708 Isogen, 354 Nocxium, 32 Zydrine) Gallente - Hemorphite (212 Tritanium, 212 Isogen, 424 Nocxium, 28 Zydrine) Minmatar - Hedbergite (708 Isogen, 354 Nocxium, 32 Zydrine)
You can't get any Megacyte until you go to nullsec (Arkonor, Bistot, Spodumain). Lowsec is crap, since all the minerals are available in nearly as good quantities in hisec, with nearly zero risk.
Hisec needs nerfed in that you shouldn't be able to easily get useable quantities of mid-range materials. Don't really touch Tritanium/Pyerite, reduce Mexallon/Isogen (25-33% or so? Plag would then give about 168-192 Mex, Omber would give about 200-230 Iso, Pyroxeres would give about 79-90 Mex, Kernite would give about 510-579 Mex and about 254-289 Iso), reduce Nocxium by a little (i.e. you get 8-10 units per refine) .
Lowsec needs boosted in that you should be able to get Mexallon/Isogen nearly as easily as you can get Tritanium/Pyerite in hisec (boost the mex/iso whilst reducing trit/pyer, as you can still mine veld/scord/etc in low). Reduce Nocxium a little, maybe to 2xx (Jaspet) or 400 (Hemorphite) units per refine?, Zydrine looks OK, maybe reduce to 20 (Hemorphite) or 25 (Hedbergite)?
Leave nullsec/w-space alone (sans altered rock compositions) ... POSSIBLY have a +15% or +20% nullsec-only variant of the lowends (Veld, Scord, Plag) to compensate for the reduced yields.
Obviously, you can find the mining sites by probing a system, and get rocks from other regions or lower security space. |
Noriko Mai
269
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Posted - 2011.10.25 17:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Serious Question:
Where you get more minerals per hour? Mining in HS or 0.0 Ratting/Havens/Sanctums and then refine all the loot? |
Velicitia
Open Designs
25
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Posted - 2011.10.25 19:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mining minerals per hour depends on a number of factors, including but not limited to:
1. how many other people are mining (i.e. how depleted are the rocks already) 2. what're you mining in 3. fleet bonuses, and how good?
Maxxed bonuses let you mine about 2650 m3 per minute (~159000 m3 per hour) in a hulk (sans drones, they're crap anyway). If you can sustain this yield, you can mine about 4,75m Tritanium per hour (~15 million ISK) from vanilla Veldspar.
Missions likely get you less per hour, depending on the loot drops. The difference is that with a mission, at the end of an hour, I have ~30 million ISK in bounties and mission rewards on top of the trash drops. So I can throw the trash drops into a station can, and refine when it suits me (days or weeks later). A miner doesn't have this additional income to buy stuff with -- their income source IS the minerals.
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Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2011.10.25 19:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Stop mining. Start running missions/incursions
Mineral production goes down
ISK faucet turned on higher
Mineral prices rise
Allow this trend to continue until it is worth your time to mine.
Its your own fault for continuing to waste your time mining when the compensation is so little.
If it doesn't work, then obviously what you are doing is so easy a bot can do it better, and perhaps you don't deserve much profit from doing it. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
25
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Posted - 2011.10.25 19:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Stop mining. Start running missions/incursions
Mineral production goes down
ISK faucet turned on higher
Mineral prices rise
Allow this trend to continue until it is worth your time to mine.
Its your own fault for continuing to waste your time mining when the compensation is so little.
If it doesn't work, then obviously what you are doing is so easy a bot can do it better, and perhaps you don't deserve much profit from doing it.
missions suck . I don't mine for ISK (that's what market PVP is for... ), I mine so I have something to do whilst market PVPing. Though, that's gone down now that ship spinning has come back |
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Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
102
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Posted - 2011.10.25 19:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wonders why, if miners are serious about stopping suicide ganking, they don't use THEIR PVP skills...
I.E they band together to do some market manipulation to drive up the price of Brutixs in their area..
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
25
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Posted - 2011.10.25 20:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
part of the problem Tallianna is that there are just so damn many people mining and producing things that it's not that easy for a small group to effectively do this.
You also have to keep in mind that there are VERY few miners who actually seem to want to work together on things, especially if it they perceive that it will impact their income/wallet. I'm having to work through some of this mentality right now in the manner of "yes, seriously, the corp is taking xx% of your minerals from corp ops so the corp can afford to continue providing all the free stuff that you love oh so very much" |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 22:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mining is no longer a vital part of EVE.. I don't even think it ever was. Remote Rep removal was a joke with meaning. Meaning that these pilots WHO ARE IN COMBAT ALL THE TIME never lose their damn 1.5bil ships and so the demand for minerals isn't there.
On top of this Miners are a G-Damn joke and laughed at with pointed fingers because these stupid kids can refine 2 lvl 4's and use them to make their fittings as they please leaving miners without the demand they should have.
There's not even a minigame or anything to keep BOTs from being an easy ass thing to use. No random variable, NOT EVEN A GRAPHIC EFFECT FOR DESTROYED ASTEROIDS.
This is pathetic for a space game that has been out for this long.
And the fact they continue to produce more and more income gains for combat kids with the same ZERO risk to their 1.5bil ships is demeaning for sci-fi as a genre.
"Conform to the tide; don't do what you love to do to have fun.. You have to conform!" F u c k
you. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
25
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Posted - 2011.10.25 23:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
o_O
um, what? |
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.10.26 01:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:o_O
um, what?
CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote:Stop mining. Start running missions/incursions
Mineral production goes down
ISK faucet turned on higher
Mineral prices rise
Allow this trend to continue until it is worth your time to mine.
Its your own fault for continuing to waste your time mining when the compensation is so little.
If it doesn't work, then obviously what you are doing is so easy a bot can do it better, and perhaps you don't deserve much profit from doing it. missions suck . I don't mine for ISK (that's what market PVP is for... ), I mine so I have something to do whilst market PVPing. Though, that's gone down now that ship spinning has come back
They do suck, but he's complaining about them... He's not complaining about incursions, which produce no refinable loot.
As to no risk... I just made it the the high sec island incursion. Its the only high sec incursion there is atm (unless one spawned in the last few hours).
Can you say gate camps? It certainly was no zero risk getting there (I didn't bring my nightmare, but now I'm regretting that in my non shiny Apocalypse. Given I was only 5 jumps from the low sec corridor, and I was heading within minutes of it popping, and I scouted the gates in an atron, I think the risk getting in was low enough.... getting my nightmare out again)
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
7
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Posted - 2011.10.26 04:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:Velicitia wrote:o_O
um, what? CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years.
So what's the problem? You're getting good income with little risk or work. Even a missioner will occasionally lose ships and they have to be more active at the keyboard.
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DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 05:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:Mining is no longer a vital part of EVE.
What is vital to the game? PvP? PvE? or maybe manufacturing? You can not do any of those without the minerals mined in high sec by bots. Sure okay, I'll bite. Remove mining since it is no longer vital to Eve. All the bots go away, all those SP go away.
Where do you get enough minerals to build all the titans and carriers? Can you build all the ships using only loot drops melted into minerals? Yes, but not at current production levels. You now know why CCP can never remove bot/macro miners, the lack of minerals would put ship costs through the roof. Everything would be much more expensive. New players would stop playing since they would not be able to afford to buy anything.
CCP failed by not fixing mining income and taxes years ago. CCP continues to fail by ignoring the problem; I think they have no idea how to fix it. I have said many times... click my name and post history... how to fix it. Tax all professions, especially mining, automatically via the interface (ratters pay 10% to corp for every bounty prize). Corporations/alliances only respect their money-earners, so they mostly hire ratters to ensure the healthy economic life of the corp. Since miners are not taxed by default, the miner is not respected by anyone, and therefore is ignored.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
361
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Posted - 2011.10.26 06:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moved from "Science and Industry".
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
221
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Posted - 2011.10.26 09:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Belrend Coregaul wrote:And the fact they continue to produce more and more income gains for combat kids with the same ZERO risk to their 1.5bil ships is demeaning for sci-fi as a genre Your risk of being ganked is about equal to a mission runner being ganked. You can take quite trivial measures to protect yourself.
Refining loot is only ONE thing that affects mineral prices - the other is the sheer number of people willing to perform an action for meager rewards. Hint: much too many. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 10:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tasko Pal wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:Velicitia wrote:o_O
um, what? CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years. So what's the problem? You're getting good income with little risk or work. Even a missioner will occasionally lose ships and they have to be more active at the keyboard. Why not have more miners mining in nul? You force them all to move to nul... actually, entice them to move voluntarily. Say with rewards for mining nul ore.
Some sort of random spawns that will make them space rich? If that is all they are trying to do, become space rich... they would probably jump at the chance to mine in nul. The more ore mined in nul, the more chance pvp has to kill them. And the more items must be exported to trade hubs from nul.
May have to remove about 90 percent of the ore spawns in empire, but with many more ppl mining expensive ore, supply might go up, prices down for minerals and everything else. And the new players can make a killing mining empire ore in frigates. Continuing as a miner would draw them to mining nul. Can this be tested on SiSi? |
Velicitia
Open Designs
26
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Posted - 2011.10.26 13:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
DetKhord Saisio wrote:Tasko Pal wrote:Belrend Coregaul wrote:Velicitia wrote:o_O
um, what? CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years. So what's the problem? You're getting good income with little risk or work. Even a missioner will occasionally lose ships and they have to be more active at the keyboard. Why not have more miners mining in nul? You force them all to move to nul... actually, entice them to move voluntarily. Say with rewards for mining nul ore. Some sort of random spawns that will make them space rich? If that is all they are trying to do, become space rich... they would probably jump at the chance to mine in nul. The more ore mined in nul, the more chance pvp has to kill them. And the more items must be exported to trade hubs from nul. May have to remove about 90 percent of the ore spawns in empire, but with many more ppl mining expensive ore, supply might go up, prices down for minerals and everything else. And the new players can make a killing mining empire ore in frigates. Continuing as a miner would draw them to mining nul. Can this be tested on SiSi?
I'm sort of agreeing with a TEST pilot... EVE IS DYING!!!
anyway, whilst it's a good idea on paper (see above somewhere where I laid it out with numbers and stuff if you want), the trouble is a lot of miners feel that they should be able to play with little to no risk involved. See the prevalence of tears that the goons have extracted recently from Gallente space ...
The problem with miners coming to null centres more around the fact that even though minerals are "important" to the continued viability of an alliance, nullsec alliance leadership generally seems to overlook this. There are (in my experience) continual CTA operations (i.e. "come get blown up, anyone who is found not shooting or ship spinning will be shot") and generally a treatment of any industrially-inclined members of an alliance as second-class. I think a large part of the problem here is how unbelievably easy it is to source a titan's worth of "compressed" minerals from Jita -- head there with a freighter of mega or morphite ... head home with 425mm artillery (or whichever the best compression module is).
Yeah, not every alliance is like this, and there might be a few smaller ones that actually LIKE the miners around ... but then I've never sought them out... |
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