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Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:What your real issue is, dear Bad EVE Player, is your own crippling cowardice and risk averse mentality. You understand that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat, and want it removed. Well sorry but that's not how it works. Nullsec is inherently risky and full of uncertainty - if you don't like this, go back to highsec.
Hope this helps
This, a thousand times this. If you will only engage in the game - rather than play a single-player spreadsheet - you'll find it far more interesting.
ie. finding out who the afk is by only ever having a 'bait' fleet out mining. It really doesn't take much or long to find out when their 'active' times are, and once they bite, you'll be able to quickly determine if they are solo or alts.
Then, say for instance the afk cloaker is a cyno pilot, you will find who they are aligned with, where that group stages, and their active times. You could even *gasp* put an 'afk' scout in their staging system to watch for when they are forming or ready to drop.
But doing any of that would require you to actually engage in the game, and you just want to mine peacefully. You should try some single-player space games where you hold down a button while facing an asteroid until your cargo is full. That sounds a little more your speed. I 'played' one of those one with a 'macro' (read: rock on keyboard).
|

Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
36
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Everyone has a great point but the bottom line is that AFK cloaking is faulty in the game only because there is no "counter" to it.
AFK mining , its easy and its legal to do but there are ways other players can counter AFK miners by bumping or ganking.
AFK travel, its easy, lazy, legal to do but there are in game counters to it called ganking
AFK missions, was countered when they changed the NPC AI to attack drones
AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.
My team at Vulnezia university have already discovered a counter to AFK cloakers.
It's called ACW or Anti Cloak Warfare
A "depth charge" module is fit to a destroyer class ship and has "depth charges" . It is used to hunt down and probe out any kind of cloaked vessel. It is not perfect and takes patience but in the right hands a destroyer can hunt down and destroy an AFK cloaker.
Now if i can just get CCP to buy my "depth charge" module idea i will be filthy rich! |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
5018
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ten billion threads on this topic....
Sorry, Ten billion and one...
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Ravnik
Choke-Hold
9415
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Baroness Vulna wrote:Everyone has a great point but the bottom line is that AFK cloaking is faulty in the game only because there is no "counter" to it.
AFK mining , its easy and its legal to do but there are ways other players can counter AFK miners by bumping or ganking.
AFK travel, its easy, lazy, legal to do but there are in game counters to it called ganking
AFK missions, was countered when they changed the NPC AI to attack drones
AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.
My team at Vulnezia university have already discovered a counter to AFK cloakers.
It's called ACW or Anti Cloak Warfare
A "depth charge" module is fit to a destroyer class ship and has "depth charges" . It is used to hunt down and probe out any kind of cloaked vessel. It is not perfect and takes patience but in the right hands a destroyer can hunt down and destroy an AFK cloaker.
Now if i can just get CCP to buy my "depth charge" module idea i will be filthy rich!
You dont need a counter to afk cloaking because they are AFK so cant hurt you Once they have returned and are NOT afk, then you have a counter. Drones, ecm or combat, fleet support, any of the above mentioned. 
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.......... |

Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Baroness Vulna wrote:Everyone has a great point but the bottom line is that AFK cloaking is faulty in the game only because there is no "counter" to it.
AFK mining , its easy and its legal to do but there are ways other players can counter AFK miners by bumping or ganking.
AFK travel, its easy, lazy, legal to do but there are in game counters to it called ganking
AFK missions, was countered when they changed the NPC AI to attack drones
AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.
My team at Vulnezia university have already discovered a counter to AFK cloakers.
It's called ACW or Anti Cloak Warfare
A "depth charge" module is fit to a destroyer class ship and has "depth charges" . It is used to hunt down and probe out any kind of cloaked vessel. It is not perfect and takes patience but in the right hands a destroyer can hunt down and destroy an AFK cloaker.
Now if i can just get CCP to buy my "depth charge" module idea i will be filthy rich!
The obvious counter to afk cloakers is to remove local. You can do this yourself by minimizing the channel.
Also, your idea does not scale, it is bad.
|

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
504
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
what about adding fuel to the mining lasers?
Or, better, make them deactivating at each cycle and make miner forcing to win a minigame, solve a puzzle or a catchpa to reactivate them. Just to be sure they're at their keyboards.
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BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
And how did you prove he was AFK? Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2316
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Yeah, basically no matter which way you look at it, there isn't a good reason to nerf cloaks the way people always propose
Yes there is, the reason being "cloaky people scare me and I don't pay 15 bucks of my hard earned pizza deliveryman money per month to be scared!"
Oh, I'm sorry, you said GOOD reason, nvm then.  |

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1546
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What your real issue is, dear Bad EVE Player, is your own crippling cowardice and risk averse mentality. You understand that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat, and want it removed. Well sorry but that's not how it works. Nullsec is inherently risky and full of uncertainty - if you don't like this, go back to highsec.
Hope this helps This, a thousand times this. If you will only engage in the game - rather than play a single-player spreadsheet - you'll find it far more interesting. ie. finding out who the afk is by only ever having a 'bait' fleet out mining. It really doesn't take much or long to find out when their 'active' times are, and once they bite, you'll be able to quickly determine if they are solo or alts. Then, say for instance the afk cloaker is a cyno pilot, you will find who they are aligned with, where that group stages, and their active times. You could even *gasp* put an 'afk' scout in their staging system to watch for when they are forming or ready to drop. But doing any of that would require you to actually engage in the game, and you just want to mine peacefully. You should try some single-player space games where you hold down a button while facing an asteroid until your cargo is full. That sounds a little more your speed. I 'played' one of those once with a 'macro' (read: rock on keyboard).
Your description reminded me of Starmade (a kind of minecraft in space). It actually is rather fun (and free!). But alas, there are cloaks in that game too :( |

Ravnik
Choke-Hold
9415
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:And how did you prove he was AFK?
Bit hard to prove i guess when you are afk in station 
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.......... |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1232
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:This thread again
Yup. Again. Lost count already. Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse CEO Sanctuary Pact Alliance --áSanctuary Pact |

Aiwha
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
524
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Put a WCS on your mining barge. Problem solved. Lock up your staions and hide your daughters.
Nulli incoming |

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1546
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:13:00 -
[43] - Quote
Baroness Vulna wrote:AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.
I know of one.
You do too.
It's so obvious and in your face I understand why you missed it.
You'll hit yourself when I say it, a classic "how did I miss THAT!" moment.
Are you ready, friend?
I hope you're ready.
Here goes.
local |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2316
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ruezer wrote:I'll give you the business perspective on this. People that extort players by AFK cloaking their systems pay their monthly fee/plex for that account.
If they change cloaking to something fuel based/cycle based, how many AFK cloaking accounts will they lose? I'll give you an answer, more then the people who whine about AFK cloaking and say they are gonna quit and dont.
I've got an AFK cloaker in my system as of right now. Tonight, I'm putting up a cyno jam in the system, and getting back to business. I can kill a stealth bomber with a mining fleet, easily.
EDIT: And to be more clear, I hate the AFK cloaking mechanic, but it's EASY to counter. Once they find out that they'll lose more ships trying to kill you then they kill, they'll go find easier targets. It's not even a matter of "losing" subs by disallowing it, it's a matter of balance. Requiring fuel for cloaks, or timers/cycles, etc is massively, MASSIVELY unbalanced. It very badly breaks numerous active playstyles. Cloaks aren't solely used by people who pester the terribads like OP - they're also used for scouting ahead, for reconnaissance, for setting up strategic locations, bombing runs, countless other things. Ideas like fuel or cap requirement destroy these playstyles - and for what? Because OP is a coward who has no right to the rewards of nullsec? Pleaaaaaase
I remember a recent GD thread where It was explained that what the guy wanted was bad because it would take a major re-write of the game. Everytime we would say "well, what about this, this would be broken", he come back with "well then ccp could cahange "x" to fit with the new system". After 8 pages of that we ended up with a total re-write of the game being the only way his no local or anti cloaking ideas would fit lol.
People don't seem to want to understand that EVE works fine the way it is, it gives you plenty of tools to mitigate and eliminate risk. i play in null sec every day and deal with neutrals and reds and cloakys and I haven't lost a ship to real people in months.
I've personally developed (or, more truthfully i should say "stolen from smarter people" ) a couple dozen different cloaky mitigation techniques, everything from moving to another (non-upgraded system to triple boxing RR battleships (the "this nut is too tough to crack" doctrine lol) to ratting in small (or big with warp stabs) ships with assigned fighters to using all kinds of gear like FoF missiles, MJDs etc etc etc.
As you point out, the problem isn't the game, it the -mental impotence- of too many of the game's players. They don't want to figure things out for themselves, they want someone to fix it for them, not realizing that if someone fixes it for them THEY won't like the game anymore because it's too reasy.
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Plastic Psycho
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote:AFK cloakers "working as intented"? Yes.
/thread |

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1322
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Posting in a "People who aren't there scare me" thread or "I see dead people" thread.....I can't decide. HTFU!...for the children! |

Plastic Psycho
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Posting in a "People who aren't there scare me" thread or "I see dead people" thread.....I can't decide. Yesterday upon the stair I saw a cloaker who wasn't there He wasn't there again today How I wish he'd go away... |

Seven Koskanaiken
Clan Steel Wolves
254
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vol Volume wrote:This aint the issue thou, issue is that they can prevent people from earning their isk just by logging in and going afk, since you cant mine or you can mine but you will surely lose your ship when the afk cloaker happens to come back. I hav myself 3 miners and orca booster and just 1 tard can stop me from earning isk what i need for plexes, even i think the eve is greatest game i hav ever played and want to support CCP im not going to pay 60e each month just that i can give some depraved tard hes fun.
You know there are asteroids outside the grav site you've huddled together in for the last few years. |

Verunae Caseti
Viziam Amarr Empire
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
If "1 tard" can stop you from earning your ISK, then there's more than 1. |

Cyclops43
Deeper Trouble
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
To the OP...
Do you also bitterly complain over the rules in football when you lose a football match?
Complaining over the rules of a game does only one thing... it shows that you're not good enough at it to competitively play... |

Jorden Ishonen
Kinetic Technologies
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vol Volume wrote:(this is indeed null sec so he dont hav any realistic risk of losing hes ship if he ganks someone)
There are so many things wrong with this sentence I can't begin to even |

Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
76
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Im lost.... I sit afk out in null sex all the time and I have yet to see my internet spacehip pixels actually do anything.
If the cloaker is afk how is that stopping you from doing your mining? |

Jorden Ishonen
Kinetic Technologies
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Here's the thing. If he is in fact afk, then he is no threat to you.
If he isn't afk, then what he is doing is perfectly legitimate stalking of potential prey.
Either way, there is no problem here as far as game mechanics go. The only problem is the one you create for yourself.
Problem is, people are used to local being a perfect source of intel. Uh oh, red in local! Dock up until he's gone! So, when someone decides to dedicate some time to blowing up these risk-adverse mouthbreathers, and suddenly local doesn't tell them if they're safe or not, they immediately go to the forums to whine and complain.
Because heaven forbid they actually do something.
Hint: cloaks are not only available to reds.
Milan Nantucket wrote: I sit afk out in null sex all the time
Totally read that as "afk sex." Nerf my wife!
ba-dum TISH |

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15167
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
INB4AAW
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |

Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
76
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
I just figure it even:
Afk cloak in system
AFK Miner and Botters
We're all afk. |

Verunae Caseti
Viziam Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Milan Nantucket wrote: We're all afk.
Someone had sex with my jump clone while I was away... afk sex ftw
That's a hump clone, sweetie. |

Daisai
The Riot Formation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 16:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
They wont fix it untill they see they see subscription numbers drop because of it. |

Verunae Caseti
Viziam Amarr Empire
101
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 17:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
Daisai wrote:They wont fix it
It's not broken.
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Plastic Psycho
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
92
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 17:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
It's been broadly hinted at, but I'll make it explicit: Counter-cloak. Bring in a couple killer hulls yourself, and cloak where you expect to get bounced - then counter-bounce when your tormenter reveals himself.
Or, as I said previously, bring enough friends when you undock that you can kill him reliably and often.
Or bore him to tears by going elsewhere/staying docked-up/playing another game for a while.
If he's able to bounce you at-will, and with no risk - even in Null - YOU are doing something very wrong.
Milan Nantucket wrote:
Someone had sex with my jump clone while I was away... afk sex ftw
How did you know? Do a clone jump and find yourself pregnant?
|

Daisai
The Riot Formation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 17:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Verunae Caseti wrote:Daisai wrote:They wont fix it It's not broken.
Depends, if they change it they admit it was broken so in case that happens it would have been fixed. But i agree with one thing though, they wont do anything about it. |
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